Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[tusenfem]

Really??? Do try and keep up with us.

Spacecraft Charging

spacecraft charging has absolutely nothing to do wirth yiu imaginary currents from the sun

it has all to do with the different mobility of electrons and ions and electrons kicked out of tbe surface of the comet by solar uv radiation

yeah it is really simple and understood without tbe solar current delusion

 

[tusenfem]

Lets go take a look ay?

There is so much contradictory information at the moment (with in the mainstream model old dirtysnowball theory/s) it's very hard to keep everything in sight.

Take Holger Sierks new statement that the "jets" now come, SURPRISINGLY, from flatlands and he's having trouble reconciling the heat transport thru to the imaginary "ice" to form explosive jets through a surface that supposedly 75%-80% porous and strongly consolidated. 1:37:01

but I suppose if you make it confusing enough you make anything you want up!

only contradictions and confusion in your feeble mind, sweety

 

[tusenfem]

I am shocked this has happened again.

you are such a bad liar!!!!!!

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

only contradictions and confusion in your feeble mind, sweety

There's a Dilbert cartoon on this very topic.

 

[tusenfem]

There's a Dilbert cartoon on this very topic.

please share, it will bve more informative rhan any of sol's postings

 

[Sol88]

spacecraft charging has absolutely nothing to do wirth yiu imaginary currents from the sun

it has all to do with the different mobility of electrons and ions and electrons kicked out of tbe surface of the comet by solar uv radiation

yeah it is really simple and understood without tbe solar current delusion

Lord lovaduck, i call bovine excrement!!!


You tell the lurkers here how the moon (our moon) charges positive on the dayside and negative on the night side, bet you can't because you never been taught, so would be out of your realm of expertise!

At least you got this bit correct

different mobility of electrons and ions

Are you able to do that, Poepseltje?

 

[Sol88]

you're hopeless, come back after studying some basic physics

what magnetic signatures would you expect in tbe diamagnetic cavity, and from which currents?

and what do you mean "where are tbhey coming from"? who is tbey? the cometary ions? if the latter the answer seems clear and simole enough that even yiu could find it.

once again you are just purposely acting dumb, the game you are gettin off on, i guess this is all a wet dream for you.

The diamagnetic cavity is full of energetic particles (plasma) not gas pressure holding the solar wind back, how can it? Whats the collision rate?

Your PI has already let it slip, hot dense energetic electrons are sputtering the rock releasing a "soup" of energetic ion, negative ions and cascading electrons!

even the ALICE team are onto it, so why not you Tusenfem

In the regions of the coma closest to the nucleus, the outflowing gas first cools as it expands outward, but is then heated by solar radiation and chemical reactions with other elements, including the reactive radicals created by chemical activity, as well as the hot ions and dust particles. In the outer coma, this “soup” of radicals, molecules, and ions becomes thicker and full of extremely hot electrons. New chemical reactions, especially proton transfer reactions among the elements in the coma produce entirely new species that in turn react with the other species. Photodissociation by solar radiation also breaks down the organic materials emerging from the nucleus.

A particle leaving the surface of the comet may fly out, accelerate through the inner shock, interact with light from the Sun, become fragmented by photodissociation, interact with other molecules or photoelectrons, and possibly even continue accelerating out toward the bow shock and even beyond. Meanwhile incoming ions from the solar wind collide with outgoing cometary ions, neutral molecules outgassing from the nucleus, fragmented molecules, and even dust particles dislodged from the nucleus. This cauldron of chemical and physical processes called the coma is a fascinating mystery that the Rosetta mission hopes to solve

LINK


Now all you really need is to find your subsurface "ice" the rest is pure plasma physics!

If you think it's working different to what's described, please feel free to set the lurkers right.

 

[Sol88]

Back peddle from what? The idiocy of misinterpreting what happens in the Earth's magnetosphere, and how that somehow relates to a comet?
The effects and currents seen in the magnetosphere are not produced by enormous electric currents from the Sun. They are controlled and magnified due to the presence of the planet and its magnetosphere.
None of this has anything to do with comets. They have not seen any evidence of electric currents on the surface of this comet. The solar wind and its magnetic field is no longer reaching the surface of the comet. There will no doubt, just as at Halley, be some interesting effects at the boundary of the diamagnetic cavity, where the solar wind MF is piling up. None of that has any effect whatsover on what is happening on the surface of the comet.
Why would anyone backpeddle from psuedoscientific nonsense and misinterpretation?

The coma
As the coma grows larger, it becomes an obstacle to the streaming solar wind, creating a bow shock in front of the coma. This bow shock is a bit like the reactive wave that forms off the bow of a ship as it plows against the waves pushing against it. Similarly, the comet “plows” through the solar wind, and this confrontation expands the coma more and more as the comet approaches the sun. As the pressure of the coma begins to equal the pressure of the solar wind, the solar wind and its associated magnetic field lines slow down, compress against the coma, and then stream around the comet, carrying cometary ions and dust with them, eventually forming the comet’s tails.

As the coma grows, different regions, similar to those found in Earth’s own upper atmosphere and magnetosphere, form within it, including:

The inner shock
the ionopause and ionosphere
and the cometosphere and cometopause

A particle leaving the surface of the comet will fly out, accelerate through the inner shock, and perhaps interact with light from the Sun. It may interact with other molecules, or possibly photoelectrons dense high energy electrons, and it may even continue accelerating even beyond the bow shock, For more on this process, see “How a Comet Works.”

my bold to emphasis the new findings...but that's the general view of how a comet works to the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE mob!

LINK

:Yawn:

Have another go 'ya mug!

 

[Sol88]

there are no electric discharges, please show me evidence of the contrary

it can well be that electrons dominate over photons, how do photons relate to dust and ice?

nobidy needs tidal heating for the current in the io flux tube, you nitwit, we need tidal heatuing for the volcanic activity

can you please show more of your scientific illiteracy?

No YOU need tidal heating to save your theory. Perhaps, 'cos the the expert here, you can tell us about the "jets" on Enceladus???

Whilst it maybe off topic, the same process/s on Io,Enceladus,Mercury,Luna,Mars......and comets is more or less the same.

 

[jonesdave116]

my bold to emphasis the new findings...but that's the general view of how a comet works to the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE mob!

LINK

:Yawn:

Have another go 'ya mug!

And what has any of that got to do with the diamagnetic cavity?
No magnetic fields are seen within the cavity at Halley, and there was a massive drop at 67P. The only ions seen within the cavity at Halley were cometary ions. No solar wind ions are reaching the cavity. The solar wind carries a magnetic field. It can be seen in the graphics posted on the Rosetta blog. Then it dissapears, just like it did at Halley. So, no solar wind within 4000km of Halley, and >186 km at 67P. Electric discharges and currents also produce magnetic fields. There is no evidence for them. There would be if they were there.

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's you who doesn't have a clue, and still has zero evidence.

I would suggest reading; https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...9sKHbKcA6I#v=onepage&q=plasma; comets&f=false

Particularly p. 1231, as well as looking at fig. 7.

 

[jonesdave116]

No YOU need tidal heating to save your theory. Perhaps, 'cos the the expert here, you can tell us about the "jets" on Enceladus???

Whilst it maybe off topic, the same process/s on Io,Enceladus,Mercury,Luna,Mars......and comets is more or less the same.

Why would tidal heating have anything to do with the flux tube at Io? Explain.

Io,Enceladus,Mercury,Luna,Mars......and comets is more or less the same.

Well, that pretty much tells us everything we need to know about your knowledge of all things astrophysical!

 

[jonesdave116]

The diamagnetic cavity is full of energetic particles (plasma) not gas pressure holding the solar wind back, how can it? Whats the collision rate?

Your PI has already let it slip, hot dense energetic electrons are sputtering the rock releasing a "soup" of energetic ion, negative ions and cascading electrons!

even the ALICE team are onto it, so why not you Tusenfem

LINK


Now all you really need is to find your subsurface "ice" the rest is pure plasma physics!

If you think it's working different to what's described, please feel free to set the lurkers right.

They found that 10 years ago at Tempel 1. As repeated ad nauseam. Unless you are going to tell us what you think they detected.

All YOU need to find is electric woo on the surface of the comet, a whole bunch of silicate rock that is somehow half the density of ice, and a gargantuan increase in the solar wind ion flux to get all the H2O observed. None of which you have.
So still just crackpot science with no evidence to back it up.

 

[Matthew Cline]

Variable spin rate of the nucleus is gunna be fun from a sublimating comets theory!

Why would that be a problem? I can see no reason jets from sublimation couldn't change the comet's angular momentum as well as its linear momentum (that is, no reason why the jets couldn't impart torque). If there is a reason why it couldn't:

1) What is that reason?

2) Why can EDM (or some other electrical process) impart torque despite the reason from #!?

 

[Sol88]

Jesus, your delusion knows no bounds, does it? Look up a definition of 'diamagnetic cavity'. There is nothing electrical going on on the surface of this comet. If there were there would be signs of it. It would be detected. Electric currents create magnetic fields. The comet, and the region within 4000 km of Halley, and within at least 186 km of 67P on 29 July, has no magnetic fields. That means, yet again, that there is no electrical activity within this cavity. There are no solar wind ions, with their easily detected magnetic field, within the cavity. It is an electric woo free zone.
And yet outgassing still occurs. How? Explain it genius.
If these currents you prattle on about were actually produced by the Sun, they would be detected. They are caused by interactions with other bodies which create those fields and various phenomena. If there was any current coming from the Sun it would be detected by various satellites and spacecraft that have been flying around for decades. They would be affected by such currents. They aren't seen because they aren't there. They would be obvious, and detectable everywhere. If you want to create a thread on the non-existent electric Sun garbage, I suggest you do that. The fact remains that for this comet you have absolutely zero evidence for any of this nonsense causing the outgassing. Zilch.

The comet seems to be emitting a ‘song’ in the form of oscillations in the magnetic field in the comet’s environment.

.

But we have and it's changing according to Tusenfem.....

Earth has the same thing going on

Why do you keep denying it Jonesdave116?

 

[jonesdave116]

.

But we have and it's changing according to Tusenfem.....

Earth has the same thing going on

Why do you keep denying it Jonesdave116?

Told you, don't link to youtube stuff. It isn't science, and I'm not wasting bandwidth. And, as Tusenfem explained, (and he's more qualified than you, me, or any of the EU delusionists) the 'singing' is nothing to do with electric woo on the surface of a comet.
Electric woo would leave remnant magnetism on the surface, even if it happened a long time ago. The comet is non-magnetised. Electric discharges create brief but powerful magnetic fields. Electric currents create magnetic fields. We see zilch. Not only zilch, but the outburst on 29 July was followed by a huge drop in the magnetic field strength!
The diamagnetic cavity, at 67P and Halley, shows that there is no solar wind reaching the cometary surface once it forms. There is nothing electrical of note going on in the cavity. By definition, it would no longer be diamagnetic.

In case you've forgotten, let me refresh your memory of what the EC idea requires; it requires electric woo on the surface. Not observed, not detected. It is supposed to liberate O- from the surface. No, it's O+ that we see in the coma. It then requires the solar wind to increase by umpteen orders of magnitude to create the H2O that has been observed. Unobserved. Not only unobserved, but non-existent within the diamagnetic cavity. As has been known (except to the EC nutters) for 29 years.
So, you've still got H2O and CO2 and various other gases coming off the comet, but no interaction with the solar wind to explain them. So you're left with no option but to invoke some method of directly creating the observed gases from the surface. You don't have one.
Therefore, with no electric woo on the surface and no solar wind, you are still where you were. With zero evidence for a nutty idea that nobody of any scientific note takes seriously.
Maybe Thornhill et al need to rename their hypothesis. How about; the invisibly, undetectably electric comet?

 

[tusenfem]

The diamagnetic cavity is full of energetic particles (plasma) not gas pressure holding the solar wind back, how can it? Whats the collision rate?

Your PI has already let it slip, hot dense energetic electrons are sputtering the rock releasing a "soup" of energetic ion, negative ions and cascading electrons!

i wonder why you are using the press coference about the results of the landing, in november last year, when activity was low and no diamgnetic cavity was present, to now make claims about this cavity 8 months later at a much much higher activity.

and no, the solar wind ions collisions with the outstreaming neutrals, a factor of 1E6 more abundant, are very important in the braking process of the solar wind and the creation of a diamagnetic cavity. but if you don't believe me, read the cravens tutorial that you linked to, or better yet ask the specialists on thunderdolts

my pi has let nothing slip, nobody has ever denied that there is plasma around the comet, that is just yet another one of you fantasies (and with you the whole load of eu/es/ec proponents).

i guess the fact that neutral gas can be more important han plasma in some dynamical processes must be very disturbing for you and feel like an attack on your worldview.

and i am sure you are capable enough to google collisional rates for yourself.

 

[Sol88]

Oh your the expert all of a sudden, cool!

Please explain to the lurkers what you think is going on

In the regions of the coma closest to the nucleus, the outflowing gas first cools as it expands outward, but is then heated by solar radiation and chemical reactions with other elements, including the reactive radicals created by chemical activity, as well as the hot ions and dust particles. In the outer coma, this “soup” of radicals, molecules, and ions becomes thicker and full of extremely hot electrons. New chemical reactions, especially proton transfer reactions among the elements in the coma produce entirely new species that in turn react with the other species. Photodissociation by solar radiation also breaks down the organic materials emerging from the nucleus.

A + B =C?? not likely! There are extremely complex PLASMA interaction taking place and you have no idea. Maybe I have no idea either but the penny dropped when Matt Taylor said the waiting on the results so they could tell the truth (and not we think the dirty snowball warming in the Sun) that story is dead and buried and their looking to ease it into some sort of PLASMA/MAGNETIC, as witnessed in the change go language to the general (gullible) public.

Or does your statement based on data from SESAME-PP (Surface Electric Sounding and Acoustic Monitoring Experiment / Permittivity Probe)and APXS (Alpha-p-X-ray spectrometer)?

If please feel free to share others, unfortunately for this conversation, you have sweet fanny adams except standard ad hoc mainstream drivel!

NO SUBLIMATION SEEN, EVEN ON YOUR SURFACE ICE!!!

You can imply it all you want but NEVER observed(even on big chunks "leaving" the comet!

Go look the data up on the ESA PSA ftp!

 

[tusenfem]

You tell the lurkers here how the moon (our moon) charges positive on the dayside and negative on the night side, bet you can't because you never been taught, so would be out of your realm of expertise!

?

i don't why i would not have been taught tnis, another of you fantasies i guess

electrons are lighter (1836 times at least) than ions, so the are moved more easily, this is called mobility. if there is a small potential difference then the electrons react quicker.

a spacecraft placed in a plasma will charge negatvely, first because the electrons collide more often and the stick more easily to metallic surfaces than ions do. thus the spacecraft charges negatively to a certain amount, because a more negatively charged spacecraft starts to repell the electrons too. there will be a balance, related to the electron temperature.

if we take away the plasma and turn on the sun then the uv radiation will knock out electrons from the surface, making its charge positive.

put th spacecraft in both then you have acombi of both effects, but usually the craft is negatively charged, the more when it is in eclipse

for the dayside of the moon the uv radiation is enough to charge it positive, the electrons flow away with the solar wind, and at the nightside of the moon they can reach the surface again and charge it negatively. there is a nice picture describing it, published not long ago probably by halekas and coworkers. i am travelling an on a tablet, i am not going to seach for it now

 

[tusenfem]

Oh your the expert all of a sudden, cool!

Please explain to the lurkers what you think is going on

A + B =C?? not likely! There are extremely complex PLASMA interaction taking place and you have no idea. Maybe I have no idea either but the penny dropped when Matt Taylor said the waiting on the results so they could tell the truth (and not we think the dirty snowball warming in the Sun) that story is dead and buried and their looking to ease it into some sort of PLASMA/MAGNETIC, as witnessed in the change go language to the general (gullible) public.

yes, compared to you i a mthe expert in all
i have no idea what this silly rant is about, did i not just tell you that there were like eight (8) plasma physics groups assiciated with the paper i am working in?

do you feel threatened by real scientist doing (already for decades) the plasma physics that your eu/es/ec buddies have been claiming all the time that was illegal in mainstream ohysics? does it destroy your worldview?

if anyone has been gullible it has been you, accepting ec up front, and not accepting any answers or explanations to your questions. you feel so important and on a pedestal because you think you know what a plasma is, when in fact you know zilch, but that is to be expected from experience with whole hordes of eu apologists.

have fun with the data, take the mag data they are easiest, and i am looking forward to see your analysis, showing us where these edm processes are evident

 

[Sol88]

i don't why i would not have been taught tnis, another of you fantasies i guess

electrons are lighter (1836 times at least) than ions, so the are moved more easily, this is called mobility. if there is a small potential difference then the electrons react quicker.

a spacecraft placed in a plasma will charge negatvely, first because the electrons collide more often and the stick more easily to metallic surfaces than ions do. thus the spacecraft charges negatively to a certain amount, because a more negatively charged spacecraft starts to repell the electrons too. there will be a balance, related to the electron temperature.

if we take away the plasma and turn on the sun then the uv radiation will knock out electrons from the surface, making its charge positive.

put th spacecraft in both then you have acombi of both effects, but usually the craft is negatively charged, the more when it is in eclipse

for the dayside of the moon the uv radiation is enough to charge it positive, the electrons flow away with the solar wind, and at the nightside of the moon they can reach the surface again and charge it negatively. there is a nice picture describing it, published not long ago probably by halekas and coworkers. i am travelling an on a tablet, i am not going to seach for it now

Well we agree on something!!

UV radiation? What about the Protons?

So the question would be asked by any rational person, "Where else does this process happen?"

Only on the moon?