Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[jonesdave116]

Well we agree on something!!

UV radiation? What about the Protons?

So the question would be asked by any rational person, "Where else does this process happen?"

Only on the moon?

What relevance has what happens on the Moon got to do with what happens at a comet?
The Moon is not outgassing a load of sublimated gases at anything like the rate, per unit area, that a comet is. The solar wind can reach the surface of the Moon. As it currently stands at 67P, and as at Halley, the solar wind is not reaching the surface once the DC forms. Therefore it is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to explaining where all the observed gases come from. Not from any interactions with a solar wind that was already many, many orders of magnitude too low, even before the DC formed.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

https://brucelynnblog.files.wordpre...d=0CB0QMygAMABqFQoTCNPcvdrGq8cCFVBWiAod420AyA

 

[jonesdave116]

https://brucelynnblog.files.wordpre...d=0CB0QMygAMABqFQoTCNPcvdrGq8cCFVBWiAod420AyA

Brilliant. I'm keeping that for possible deployment elsewhere!

 

[tusenfem]

Well we agree on something!!

UV radiation? What about the Protons?

So the question would be asked by any rational person, "Where else does this process happen?"

Only on the moon?

what about protons??

is there any point here?

 

[Sol88]

what about protons??

is there any point here?

Ummm.....

The solar wind is a stream of plasma released from the upper atmosphere of the Sun. It consists of mostly electrons, protons and alpha particles with energies usually between 1.5 and 10 keV

bstract: Observations of a lunar “horizon glow” by several Surveyor spacecraft on the lunar surface in the 1960s and detections of dust particle impacts by the Apollo 17 Lunar Ejecta and Meteoroid Experiment have been explained as the result of micron-sized charged particles lifting off the surface. The surface of the Moon is exposed to the solar wind and solar UV radiation causing photoemission, so it develops a surface charge and an electric field near the surface. Dust particles injected into this plasma from the lunar regolith, whether from human and mechanical activity or from meteoroid impacts or electrostatic forces, may be stably levitated above the surface and may undergo preferential deposition onto areas of the lunar surface or equipment with different electrical properties. This can lead to a net transport as well as contamination of sensitive equipment. This paper reports on new experimental measurements and numerical simu-lations of the plasma environment above the lunar surface and the related behavior of charged dust

LINK

And the point is SUBLIMATION is NOT needed to account for the charging and mobilisation of cometary dust!

BUT the mainstream went in all guns blazing that comets are made of ICE with some dust and it's not turning out like they thought.

Seems once it is though, on a comet, then it seems to get very complex, as stated

In the regions of the coma closest to the nucleus, the outflowing gas first cools as it expands outward, but is then heated by solar radiation and chemical reactions with other elements, including the reactive radicals created by chemical activity, as well as the hot ions and dust particles. In the outer coma, this “soup” of radicals, molecules, and ions becomes thicker and full of extremely hot electrons. New chemical reactions, especially proton transfer reactions among the elements in the coma produce entirely new species that in turn react with the other species. Photodissociation by solar radiation also breaks down the organic materials emerging from the nucleus.

and even the EU mob wonder just how complex and non linear those complex PLASMA process are!

 

[Sol88]

What relevance has what happens on the Moon got to do with what happens at a comet?
The Moon is not outgassing a load of sublimated gases at anything like the rate, per unit area, that a comet is. The solar wind can reach the surface of the Moon. As it currently stands at 67P, and as at Halley, the solar wind is not reaching the surface once the DC forms. Therefore it is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to explaining where all the observed gases come from. Not from any interactions with a solar wind that was already many, many orders of magnitude too low, even before the DC formed.

Oh nothing...

 

[jonesdave116]

Oh nothing...

Given that the solar wind isn't impacting the surface, and wasn't at Halley, then you're right. Sublimation is still occurring in the absence of the solar wind. So "nothing" is the correct answer.
You need a process that doesn't involve the solar wind. You don't have one.

 

[jonesdave116]

In the regions of the coma closest to the nucleus, the outflowing gas first cools as it expands outward, but is then heated by solar radiation and chemical reactions with other elements, including the reactive radicals created by chemical activity, as well as the hot ions and dust particles. In the outer coma, this “soup” of radicals, molecules, and ions becomes thicker and full of extremely hot electrons. New chemical reactions, especially proton transfer reactions among the elements in the coma produce entirely new species that in turn react with the other species. Photodissociation by solar radiation also breaks down the organic materials emerging from the nucleus.

And what has that got to do with anything? And who cares what the EU mob think? They don't inform scientific thinking. Those scientists that have actually heard of their nutty ideas treat them as just that.
And where, amongst that, does it say that the outflowing gas is caused by the solar wind? Where does it say that it isn't ice that is entraining the dust?
I'm sure I've seen papers on comets that discuss the possibility of VERY SMALL electrostatic effects on comets, including maybe dust levitation. However, the vast majority of dust we see leaving the surface is entrained within the gases, mostly H2O, caused by sublimation.
How did the dust get moved around on Halley after the solar wind stopped impacting the surface? Pretty much the same way it would have done before the cavity formed. By sublimating gases.

 

[tusenfem]

And the point is SUBLIMATION is NOT needed to account for the charging and mobilisation of cometary dust!

BUT the mainstream went in all guns blazing that comets are made of ICE with some dust and it's not turning out like they thought.

Seems once it is though, on a comet, then it seems to get very complex, as stated

and even the EU mob wonder just how complex and non linear those complex PLASMA process are!

yeah that is abiut akl the eu gang can do, instead of actually using hannes alfven's theories, the keep on saying complex plasma processes in order not to have to do any actual work on the plasma physics

sublimation has nothing to do with cgarging dust. sublimation happens or how do the eu boys create the co2? radiation and free electrons charge the dust either negative or positive (now there is a complex process)

and up to now the comet's behaviour can be modeled very well with computer models, of whixh there are at least three different kinds by koenders, rubin and huang

 

[tusenfem]

rosetta at perihelion, just beautiful
http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2015/08/13/rosettas-big-day-in-the-sun/

 

[Sol88]

Yeah absolutely stunning!! Pity they stretched the picture of the bright pencil thin jet...again.

Gunna be another hard one to explain away again with sublimation.

 

[Vermonter]

You tell the lurkers here how the moon (our moon) charges positive on the dayside and negative on the night side, bet you can't because you never been taught, so would be out of your realm of expertise!

This has been standard knowledge for years.

 

[Sol88]

Yeah I know but the dirtysnowball has been standard knowledge for longer!

Funny eh?

I like trivia as well.

 

[jonesdave116]

Yeah absolutely stunning!! Pity they stretched the picture of the bright pencil thin jet...again.

Gunna be another hard one to explain away again with sublimation.

Only because you don't seem to understand what sublimation is. Not to mention having no evidence, or even hypothesis, for how else it might be happening!
Various ices have different sublimation temperatures, depending on the atmospheric pressure they are within. H2O is about 190K in a vacuum. CO2 and CO are far lower. The temperature at the surface will be well above this. The temperature of the ices below the surface will increase as heat penetrates the layer/s above. As soon as that sublimation temperature is exceeded, then it will sublimate. Stick a bowl of ice outside your front door, and see what happens. It melts. Well, in a vacuum that turns straight to gas.

 

[jonesdave116]

You tell the lurkers here how the moon (our moon) charges positive on the dayside and negative on the night side, bet you can't because you never been taught, so would be out of your realm of expertise!

And that has what relevance to comets? Zero. Are you trying to say that the Moon has some giant electric current going on at the surface? The effect is rather small. Armstrong, Aldrin, the 10 other blokes, plus various landers, rovers and delicate instrumentation, might have noticed that.
Just another diversion from the fact that, after over one year at the comet, this mission has still left you with zero evidence for this scientifically illiterate nonsense you believe in.

 

[jonesdave116]

Yeah I know but the dirtysnowball has been standard knowledge for longer!

Indeed it has. Due to the fact that a) the evidence fits the theory, and b) nobody has come up with a sensible alternate hypothesis that can explain the observations, and provide any evidence for that hypothesis.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Yeah absolutely stunning!! Pity they stretched the picture of the bright pencil thin jet...again.

Gunna be another hard one to explain away again with sublimation.

Proof of your assertion, please? Not biblethumping linkbarf but proof?

 

[tusenfem]

Yeah absolutely stunning!! Pity they stretched the picture of the bright pencil thin jet...again.

Gunna be another hard one to explain away again with sublimation.

whaddevvah!

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

whaddevvah!

i understand your desire to serve science and truth by responding in this topic, but this thread makes me imagine a gaggle of adults arguing with children through a schoolyard fence. Posts like sol88's last offering are in the realm of "nasa = nazi" hoax arguments in terms of usefulness and accuracy.

 

[Reality Check]

Seems it does happen on comets though!

This is you lying again about a feature in an image being pointed out with a red circle being an electrical discharge, Sol88 .

But what else can we expect from you?
A believer of Velikovsky's delusion that planets zoomed around the Solar System to explain various myths in recent times, has already discarded all they know about high school science and seems prepared to lie about images as in that post.

A repeated lie about no surface ice being found on comets.

53 days and counting of being afraid of doing simple physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.