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Continuation Part II - Cold Fusion Claims

It is energetically true that 7Li + p --> alpha + alpha is a net exothermic reaction, whether or not you posit that the (energetically disallowed) 8Be is an intermediate state. I guess Rossi is finally capable of looking up the relevant three numbers in a reliable source.

However, not being a nuclear physicist (or, apparently, talking to nuclear physicists) he didn't get around to realizing that this is a familiar reaction. Mr. Rossi is not the first person to think about it, so it's unusually easy to recognize the extent to which he's making stuff up out of thin air.

First: his stick-and-ball diagrams are ... um ... not standard. It appears that they were invented by Cook, who is some sort of psychologist or computer scientist or something, and it is self-published (or what passes for self-publishing in the modern predatory-publishing world), and recognized nowhere. That said, as far as I can tell, the intention is to graphically keep track of a certain set of quantum numbers. However, insofar as what they're actually doing is looking up some (standard) angular-momentum assignments and selection rules, then drawing colorful pictures of them, I'm not particularly bothered.

OK, so let's look at the "result."

First, they posit that (a) the e-cat is mysteriously full of an excited state of 7Li (we'd call it 7Li(1/2-), or 7Li*, depending on how specific we're being) instead of the ground state; they say (b) this makes sense because it's such an unusually low-lying excited state. They suggest (c) there's a huge fusion cross section p + 7Li(1/2-) --> alpha alpha, and that (d) all together this explains how the e-cat gets nuclear power without emitting gamma rays, but (e) it doesn't help make the nickel transmutations make sense but never mind.

This is all gibberish. (Well, not (e)).
  • There's lithium in an excited state in your system? Listen, guys: the idea "hey, our magic powder has spontaneously excited a nucleus by 477 keV" is your law-of-physics violating step here. 7Li(1/2-) cannot be created out of 7Li by any chemical or thermal reaction. It's a hugely endothermic process, requiring a lot of extra energy to be transported to a single nucleus. It's just as impossible as all of the other "horribly endothermic nuclear reaction happens spontaneously, la la" that have been proposed over the years.

    My guess is that Rossi didn't notice what he was doing here. He hid his impossible step in one throwaway line ("start with 7Li(1/2-)") and spend the rest of his paper talking about all the clever things he can do with all this 7Li(1/2-) now that he has it.
  • No, 7Li(1/2-) is not unusually low-lying. I mean, sort of? A bit towards the low end but nothing to write home about?
  • You know what happens to 7Li(1/2-) in the real world? It doesn't sit around in Italian powders waiting for protons to wander past. Instead, it decays to 7Li ground state by emitting a gamma ray. It takes something like 10 femtoseconds. Not a great thing to suggest to have sitting around in the special system you're inventing that can't emit any gamma rays. 7Li(1/2-) is a gamma emitter. 7Li(1/2-) bombarded by protons is also a gamma emitter.
  • We know what the 7Li fusion cross sections are. Nowadays, everyone knows about it because it's one of the standard reactions of nuclear astrophysics, it's how the Sun destroyed its primordial 7Li stockpile. The funny thing is this is the first accelerator nuclear reaction ever run, literally. p + 7Li --> alpha + alpha was the first reaction observed by high-voltage-pioneers Crockroft and Walton.

    Nature 129, 242-242 (13 February 1932)

    Drat the luck! You try to pick a nice, obscure nuclear reaction you can lie about with no one noticing, and you accidentally pick the longest-studied nuclear reaction on Earth.

    Now, I wouldn't have minded if Rossi's cross-section guesswork had been true---if, by sheer luck, or by virtue of those graphs keeping a correct account of selection-rules, maybe it is true that 6Li(p,alpha) is rarer than 7Li(p,alpha) is rarer than 7Li*(p,alpha), and all three have been measured.

    Burcham and McCauley 1958 measured the 7Li(p,alpha) and 7Li*(p,alpha) reaction rates---the former both forwards and backwards, the latter backwards only. Contra Rossi's stick-and-ball hopes, both cross sections are about the same. Oops.

    doi:10.1016/0029-5582(58)90012-9

    Also, it's known in stellar physics---I will look up the lab cross sections later---that 6Li is actually burned faster than 7Li, i.e. the low-energy cross sections are higher. Rossi was hoping to explain why his reactor (supposedly) consumed 7Li faster than 6Li. Oops again.
  • Finally, contra Rossi's hope that 7Li(p,alpha) could be a totally-gamma-ray-free reaction ... well, that's sorta true at first order. It's better than anything else he's suggested on that front. But it's still not true. Bombarding metallic Ni with alphas---which is what will happen if you do this in a box of nickel powder---causes particle-induced x-ray emission, i.e. an extremely large flux of 7.8 keV x-rays at the nickel K-edge. Enough, I'm pretty sure, to kill everyone in the room with an E-cat even after the majority of them have been stopped by shielding.

(In case anyone cares.)
 
(ETA: I was right that 6Li depletion is faster than 7Li depletion, but that's due to 6Li(d,alpha) rather than 6Li(p,alpha). Given that Rossi is running his device with standard deuterium-rich water, it might be tempting to ask why 6Li(d,alpha) shouldn't similarly dominate his "e-cat data".

If I were asked to list "all the ways the Rossi data would, if true, seem to contradict nuclear physics expectations" this would be very, very, very low on the list. If I were asked to list "nuclear physics discrepancies I expect Rossi to answer satisfactorily", this questions wouldn't even be on the list, and not just because the list is empty.)
 
(ETA: I was right that 6Li depletion is faster than 7Li depletion, but that's due to 6Li(d,alpha) rather than 6Li(p,alpha). Given that Rossi is running his device with standard deuterium-rich water, it might be tempting to ask why 6Li(d,alpha) shouldn't similarly dominate his "e-cat data".

Hi ben m, while I agree with your previous long post I have to remark here that I do not think Rossi ever claimed to be using deuterium or deuterated water, only standard hydrogen gas in the reactor and possibly standard water outside for calorimetry
 
Hi ben m, while I agree with your previous long post I have to remark here that I do not think Rossi ever claimed to be using deuterium or deuterated water, only standard hydrogen gas in the reactor and possibly standard water outside for calorimetry

Yes, standard water is "deuterium rich" in the sense that Earth's deuterium ratio (D/H = 150ppm) is high compared to the primordial matter (D/H = 25ppm) and very high compared to the solar interior.

To clarify my point: even in a deuterium-depleted environment like the Sun, the 6Li(d,alpha) reaction rate exceeds the 7Li(p,alpha) rate. Rossi seems to be claiming that this is not true in his system, despite his water having an even higher deuterium content than the Sun. (i.e., normal Earth water. Not isotopically-enriched deuterated water, nor isotopically-depleted light water.)
 
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Yes, standard water is "deuterium rich" in the sense that Earth's deuterium ratio (D/H = 150ppm) is high compared to the primordial matter (D/H = 25ppm) and very high compared to the solar interior.

To clarify my point: even in a deuterium-depleted environment like the Sun, the 6Li(d,alpha) reaction rate exceeds the 7Li(p,alpha) rate. Rossi seems to be claiming that this is not true in his system, despite his water having an even higher deuterium content than the Sun. (i.e., normal Earth water. Not isotopically-enriched deuterated water, nor isotopically-depleted light water.)
Ah thanks, now I see what you meant. Still, I don't think he ever claims to be using water inside the reactor (for electrolysis, for instance), but only to be pumping hydrogen gas inside it. So would this gas also contain the natural deuterium content at the ratio you posted above? I have no intention of scrolling through Rossi's endless claims to see if he ever said anything about isotopically purified hydrogen.
 
Ah thanks, now I see what you meant. Still, I don't think he ever claims to be using water inside the reactor (for electrolysis, for instance), but only to be pumping hydrogen gas inside it. So would this gas also contain the natural deuterium content at the ratio you posted above? I have no intention of scrolling through Rossi's endless claims to see if he ever said anything about isotopically purified hydrogen.

I forget how Rossi's steam-emitting object of five+ years ago purportedly worked---whether the nickel was reportedly in water or hydrogen. But you're right, the more recent high-temperature objects are reportedly nickel in hydrogen.

Yes, any hydrogen compound you buy on Earth has very nearly the same D/H ratio; I'd have to check the range but I believe it to be small. (Larger than any other natural fractionation, but still small.) If you want purified H or D you pay a premium.
 
...I have no intention of scrolling through Rossi's endless claims to see if he ever said anything about isotopically purified hydrogen.
Rossi's device is actually pretty much a self contained unit - a ceramic cylinder containing nickel and hydrogen with an embedded heating coil. The actual contents are almost a secret since all we have is what he said is in them from several years ago.

The "steam" stuff is from Rossi's original incompetent and possibly fraudulent demonstration of the ecat. He used instruments that were not appropriate. From memory, a reporter noted that the steam output went up when Rossi left the equipment room for another room controlling the equipment.
 
The "steam" stuff is from Rossi's original incompetent and possibly fraudulent demonstration of the ecat. He used instruments that were not appropriate. From memory, a reporter noted that the steam output went up when Rossi left the equipment room for another room controlling the equipment.
Yes. He had a metal vessel which was capable of emitting puffs of steam when plugged into the mains, and when he messed about with controls. I have one of them too. An electric kettle.
 
rossi-has-been-granted-us-patent-on-the-e-cat
Although the patent is listing it as a "Fluid Heater", no mention of fusion at all.
Looks like this one is still going.

Ah. The patent makes it clear that it does not refer to eCats at all. The reactions which produce heat are specifically identified as chemical reactions involving LiAlH4, and nickel is specifically identified as a catalyst. Any fusion reactions transmuting nickel to copper would violate the definition of catalyst.
 
Ah. The patent makes it clear that it does not refer to eCats at all. The reactions which produce heat are specifically identified as chemical reactions involving LiAlH4, and nickel is specifically identified as a catalyst. Any fusion reactions transmuting nickel to copper would violate the definition of catalyst.

It is interesting to compare the patent with Q&A done by Rossi on it.
Which is here : http://ecat.com/news/e-cat-patent-granted-by-uspto
Apparently this all means mass production is 'closer'.
 
rossi-has-been-granted-us-patent-on-the-e-cat
Although the patent is listing it as a "Fluid Heater", no mention of fusion at all.
Looks like this one is still going.



Here are the patent claims, in their entirety:

1. An apparatus for heating fluid, said apparatus comprising a tank, an electrical resistor, and a fuel wafer, wherein said tank is configured for holding fluid to be heated, wherein said fuel wafer is configured to be in thermal communication with said fluid, wherein said fuel wafer includes a fuel mixture that includes reagents and a catalyst, wherein said electrical resistor is in thermal communication with said fuel mixture and said catalyst, wherein said resistor is configured to be coupled to a voltage source, wherein said apparatus further comprises a controller in communication with said voltage source, and a temperature sensor, wherein said fuel mixture comprises lithium, and lithium aluminum hydride, wherein said catalyst comprises a group 10 element, wherein said controller is configured to monitor a temperature from said temperature sensor, and, based at least in part on said temperature, to reinvigorate a reaction in said fuel mixture, wherein reinvigorating said reaction comprises varying a voltage of said voltage source.

2. The apparatus of claim 1, wherein said catalyst comprises nickel powder.

3. The apparatus of claim 2, wherein said nickel powder has been treated to enhance porosity thereof.

4. The apparatus of claim 1, wherein said fuel wafer comprises a multi-layer structure having a layer of said fuel mixture in thermal communication with a layer containing said electrical resistor.

5. The apparatus of claim 1, wherein said fuel wafer comprises a central heating insert and a pair of fuel inserts disposed on either side of said heating insert.

6. The apparatus of claim 1, wherein said tank comprises a recess for receiving said fuel wafer therein.

7. The apparatus of claim 6, wherein said tank further comprises a door for sealing said recess.

8. The apparatus of claim 1, wherein said tank comprises a radiation shield.

9. The apparatus of claim 1, wherein said reaction in said fuel mixture is at least partially reversible.

10. The apparatus of claim 9, wherein said reaction comprises reacting lithium hydride with aluminum to yield hydrogen gas.


Notice that claim 8 is the only mention of radiation.

Also note the classification of this patent: F24J1/00

What does that class cover?

SECTION F — MECHANICAL ENGINEERING; LIGHTING; HEATING; WEAPONS; BLASTING

F24 HEATING; RANGES; VENTILATING

F24J PRODUCTION OR USE OF HEAT NOT OTHERWISE PROVIDED FOR

F24J 1/00 Apparatus or devices using heat produced by exothermal chemical reactions other than by combustion (for cooking-vessels A47J 36/28; self-heating compresses A61F {A61F 7/03}; materials for the production of heat or cold involving non-reversible chemical reactions, other than by combustion, when used C09K 5/18)


So, he's playing a classic game, as I identified in my talk at TAM 5, about how people get patents on ******** technologies. He's re-written the application to avoid any explicit mention of cold fusion or LENR, and gotten it reclassified into an art that would likely be examined by a mechanical engineer, rather than a chemist or physicist. So the examiner most likely didn't even realize what he was looking at when it came to the claimed fuel cycle.

Of course, that doesn't stop Rossi from turning around and pretending like this is a validation of his LENR claims. Which again, is exactly what we'd expect a conman to do. Indeed, he's following the playbook of other well-known conmen right here.
 
rossi-has-been-granted-us-patent-on-the-e-cat
Although the patent is listing it as a "Fluid Heater", no mention of fusion at all.
Looks like this one is still going.

In addition to what is said, you can pretty much get patent for stuff which are not working, although if the patent examiner detect you are trying to pull a fast one with a PM or nowadays cold fusion, they will ask you for a working prototype, but more or less if that does not fall into those domain you can patent stuff which do not work.
 
Here are the patent claims, in their entirety:

Notice that claim 8 is the only mention of radiation.

Also note the classification of this patent: F24J1/00

What does that class cover?

So, he's playing a classic game, as I identified in my talk at TAM 5, about how people get patents on ******** technologies. He's re-written the application to avoid any explicit mention of cold fusion or LENR, and gotten it reclassified into an art that would likely be examined by a mechanical engineer, rather than a chemist or physicist. So the examiner most likely didn't even realize what he was looking at when it came to the claimed fuel cycle.

Of course, that doesn't stop Rossi from turning around and pretending like this is a validation of his LENR claims. Which again, is exactly what we'd expect a conman to do. Indeed, he's following the playbook of other well-known conmen right here.
This would appear to confirm what you write.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/08/28/rossi-patent-in-media-sources-brian-josephson-and-tom-whipple/

Personally, I’m not expecting too much of a media splash on this news. The mainstream media in general seems to take its guidance on science reporting from what respected mainstream scientists say on a topic, and so far precious few have said anything positive about LENR or the E-Cat.

My guess is that it will be people in the business community who will be more interested in the granting of a patent — this raises the visibility of the E-Cat in commercial terms, and is an important step in getting the technology into the marketplace. I do agree with Tom Whipple that the information contained in the patent should be helpful to replicators, and I know that already there are people getting ready to try new replications based on what is revealed in this patent. Some successful replications based on the E-Cat recipe in the patent could be quite convincing.​
 
Here are the patent claims, in their entirety:




Notice that claim 8 is the only mention of radiation.

Also note the classification of this patent: F24J1/00

What does that class cover?




So, he's playing a classic game, as I identified in my talk at TAM 5, about how people get patents on ******** technologies. He's re-written the application to avoid any explicit mention of cold fusion or LENR, and gotten it reclassified into an art that would likely be examined by a mechanical engineer, rather than a chemist or physicist. So the examiner most likely didn't even realize what he was looking at when it came to the claimed fuel cycle.

Of course, that doesn't stop Rossi from turning around and pretending like this is a validation of his LENR claims. Which again, is exactly what we'd expect a conman to do. Indeed, he's following the playbook of other well-known conmen right here.

If you have a resistor connected to a voltage source the resistor will get hot and heat the surrounding medium regardless of what it is.
 
My guess is that it will be people in the business community who will be more interested in the granting of a patent — this raises the visibility of the E-Cat in commercial terms, and is an important step in getting the technology into the marketplace. marks to part with cash before the con falls apart.

Fixed that for you.
 
See site called "Shut Down Rossi". I think his scam needs a bit of a boost. One of his "licencees" in fact found buyers for two of Rossi's large ecomony size devices. Rossi refused to deliver; presumably because he has no such contraptions except a phoney one for his dog and pony shows. The licencee took him to court, and he bought back the licence. This doesn't look good.

He seems to be buying back any licence the buyers want to return, presumably to avert other legal action. http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/19/industrial-heat-buying-up-all-e-cat-licenses-ian-walker/

But I have to say the scam is lasting longer than I predicted. There's more morons out there than one can readily imagine.
 
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But I have to say the scam is lasting longer than I predicted. There's more morons out there than one can readily imagine.



Google "Blacklight power". They've been pulling this same scam with their version of cold fusion since almost the beginning of cold fusion in 1989. Over about 25 years, they've reportedly brought in about $30 million in investment cash, without ever producing an actual working device. Every 5-7 years, they go through the same cycle: Announce a "new discovery" that will work this time, file a new set of patent applications, get a new crop of investors, have the patents refused, or granted based on the tricks I mentioned above, utterly fail to produce an actual device, go quiet long enough for the idiots to forget what just happened, then repeat. For 25 years. Rossi's a piker by their standards!
 

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