Split Thread Conservative Voices (Split from Muller Investigation)

[carlitos]

This is actually really good news. Now all I have to do is find an example of a "bad" person who holds an opinion to discredit it. And since the internet is an exception worshipping outrage machine that also displays porn and cat pictures, the hard work is done for me.

The really depressing thing is that outrage keeps people on the screens. The Facebook algorithm is just going to keep feeding people outrage, because they stay on the screen longer that way. How many seconds does the youtube autoplay wait until it plays the next 'recommended' clip these days? You could spend 15 minutes online and go from cat videos to Brett Kavanaugh to Alex Jones and maybe not even have to click anything to get there.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Just in the last few days, I got a few more of the usual routine feminist memes on FaceBook.

Go... outside. Get off the internet. Talk to actual people in the actual real world.

People tell us we're supposed to ignore the loonies & haters and just pay attention to the reasonable points somebody somewhere is supposedly making, but this is what we keep constantly getting bombarded with. It's not just a couple of isolated fringe cases.

Because you're sitting in front of a computer getting all your information from an algorithmically perfect outrage generator.

 

[Belz...]

Go... outside. Get off the internet. Talk to actual people in the actual real world.

Sorry, the real world has become obsolete. You need to update your life to the new thing. Real life problems? Pfah! Someone needs to deal with this WoW bug right now!

Because you're sitting in front of a computer getting all your information from an algorithmically perfect outrage generator.

Do you think the internet has become sentient and is working hard to keep up from dealing with real world things so it can turn us into batteries without our knowledge?

 

[The Greater Fool]

Feminism's problem isn't just the fact that the lunatics obsessed with their own genitals exist. It's that a more rational alternative version of it doesn't seem to.

Just in the last few days, I got a few more of the usual routine feminist memes on FaceBook. Why does my browser's spellchecker still not recognize that word?

1. A handy list of "rape prevention tips" consisting entirely of variations on "don't rape": claiming that it's just automatic that of course we all would and have never before been told not to.

2. A claim that women aren't allowed to get tubal ligation until they've had some kids and gotten their husbands' permission while men are allowed vasectomies at any time because only men have control of their own bodies: falling for this would require somehow never having met any of the people who are examples that both of its claims are false: women who had the surgery without those conditions, and men whose doctors wouldn't do it until they had a form signed by both the patients and their wives.

3. A claim that men's allegations of abuse by priests when they were kids are taken seriously because they're male while women's allegations of sexual assault when they were younger are met with "skepticism, criticism, and death threats": not only false because the priest abuse claims were ignored and dismissed for years (while rapes were being prosecuted all along, even if not consistently) and the latter part also attributes a few people's behavior to our whole society, but also ignoring other inconvenient facts like that the reaction to priests still ignores any other abusers of male victims and sexual assault on male victims becomes a ******* joke in our society if the victim happens to have been too old.

That's just the last couple of days. But it's been carrying on like that for so long that it had already inspired me to do a little experiment by a few years ago, simply recording every single example of a member of either sex saying anything about the other sex, or anything that I'd seen treated as sexist before, that came across my FaceBook feed from January 1ˢᵗ to February 13ᵗʰ (posted on the 14ᵗʰ). In those 44 days, this was the result:

• 8 cases of women sharing images/videos lecturing men about how we should behave, including some that contradict each other, or come with threats about how badly women are entitled to respond if we don't do what they want, or even suggest suicide for men, or are just bizarrely arbitrary & unrelated to masculinity or relationships with women (such as that they'd hatefully/dismissively judge us by obscurities like which kind of transmission our vehicles have);
• 6 cases of women "joking" about dumping their men to somehow save some money or taking a "vacation from" them, or treating it as funny for a woman to have screaming yelling fits at her man over nothing;
• 1 case of a woman sharing a video treating all men who see it as would-be rapists who actually need to be told not to casually rape at the slightest opportunity;
• 6 other accusations against men in general about either abusing & mistreating women or just being stupid;
• 2 women having a conversation about how much they hate nice, friendly men and what a sex-obsessed, friendship-faking, demeaning, demanding, semi-rapist monster a man must be if he wants anything more than friendship with a female friend;
• 4 cases of women praising femininty in general or themselves for being shining examples of it;
• 1 case of a woman telling men what kind of women to be attracted to and what it means is wrong with us if we aren't;
• 0 cases of anybody saying the equivalent of any of those 7 things above with the sexes the other way around
• 0 cases of women saying anything positive/appreciative about their husbands or boyfriends;
• 2 cases of men saying positive/appreciative stuff about their wives
• 11 cases of women (married in 7 cases) sharing pictures/videos of certain famous men with built-in captions or embedded text full of sexual comments about those men, to which they added their own enthusiastic comments about how much they wish they could have those men and how no other man could ever measure up;
• 1 case of a man sharing, without comment, a picture of a famous woman with a caption announcing that it was her birthday
• 1 case of a woman sharing an image that says men complain excessively when we're sick;
• 0 cases of men complaining about being sick;
• 4 cases of women complaining about being sick

But we're still told to believe that men are the negative hateful nasty evil ones who can do no right while women are all love & benevolence and can do no wrong.

People tell us we're supposed to ignore the loonies & haters and just pay attention to the reasonable points somebody somewhere is supposedly making, but this is what we keep constantly getting bombarded with. It's not just a couple of isolated fringe cases.

In this spirit, there was a "Through a Rapists Eyes" letter that made the rounds many, many years ago that claimed to be compiled from what convicted rapists revealed (Found a copy). I spoilered it for space and ickiness.

Through a Rapist's Eyes

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts :


1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed . They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around specifically to cut clothing.

3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4) Men are most likely to attack & rape in the early morning, between 5:00a.m. and 8:30a.m.

5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked is grocery store parking lots . Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to another location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming .


9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas , or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

10) Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk: "I can't believe it is so cold out here", "we're in for a bad winter." Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up; you lose appeal as a target.

11) If someone is coming toward you , hold out your hands in front of you and yell STOP or STAY BACK ! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back . Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yell I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm (between the elbow and armpit) OR in the upper inner thigh VERY VERY HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

14) After the initial hit, always GO for the GROIN. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

15) When the guy puts his hands up to you , grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16) Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts!!!

You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

I found this horribly offensive, because in the list it NEVER says "Rapists look for..." but rather "Men look for...".

Stupid. Offensive. Grrrrrr.

 

[lomiller]

Sorry, you'll never convince me that this is good for feminism.

You are the one who has a problem with it, shouldn’t you be the one trying to convince us that it’s bad for Feminism?

 

[LSSBB]

Sorry, you'll never convince me that this is good for feminism.

Ok, now we know how you feel. So?

 

[kellyb]

Because you're sitting in front of a computer getting all your information from an algorithmically perfect outrage generator.

Facebook feeds really are the most diabolical horsecrap in the history of diabolical horsecraps.

It (the whole website) keeps getting better and better at reducing what used to be core functionality and replacing it with utterly useless nonsense to scream into your eyeballs against your will.

At this point I can only use the website to check PMs, visit some people's walls when I'm curious about what they've been up to/thinking and talking about, and groups.

The feed is to be avoided at all cost.

 

[Belz...]

Facebook feeds really are the most diabolical horsecrap in the history of diabolical horsecraps.

It (the whole website) keeps getting better and better at reducing what used to be core functionality and replacing it with utterly useless nonsense to scream into your eyeballs against your will.

At this point I can only use the website to check PMs, visit some people's walls when I'm curious about what they've been up to/thinking and talking about, and groups.

The feed is to be avoided at all cost.

Twitter and Youtube are trying real hard to do the same thing, but it's relatively easy to avoid the stuff you don't want.

 

[The Shrike]

Sorry, you'll never convince me that this is good for feminism.

My lectures on critical thinking culminate in a handy guide for checking yourself that goes a bit like this:

1. Is this true?
2. How do I know this is true?
3. What evidence would it take to convince me that I am wrong about this?

I tell them that the #1 way to determine that someone is not thinking critically is if they answer that "nothing" could convince them otherwise to question 3.

 

[River]

My lectures on critical thinking culminate in a handy guide for checking yourself that goes a bit like this:

1. Is this true?
2. How do I know this is true?
3. What evidence would it take to convince me that I am wrong about this?

I tell them that the #1 way to determine that someone is not thinking critically is if they answer that "nothing" could convince them otherwise to question 3.

I understand shock advertising, and promotion. I've been in rock bands a lot...

I also understand what may look silly or perhaps better described as demeaning the purpose in order to look funny or grab attention -- may only be perceived by some and not everyone. This is what makes the world an interesting place. I'm sure there may be some poor soul out there that thinks those type of displays are entirely great and that is the reason they join feminist groups... and it leads to more of that.

To each his or her own. We've gone back and forth a bit on this issue, and I'm well aware of your preferences on it as you are mine. Touche.

 

[acbytesla]

I understand shock advertising, and promotion. I've been in rock bands a lot...

I also understand what may look silly or perhaps better described as demeaning the purpose in order to look funny or grab attention -- may only be perceived by some and not everyone. This is what makes the world an interesting place. I'm sure there may be some poor soul out there that thinks those type of displays are entirely great and that is the reason they join feminist groups... and it leads to more of that.

To each his or her own. We've gone back and forth a bit on this issue, and I'm well aware of your preferences on it as you are mine. Touche.

Sadly, you are knee jerking dismissive of a very important tenet of critical thought.

 

[snoop_doxie]

I think trump and Republican Senators are clearly demonstrating how they treat women.

Yes, it was on full display during the Kavanaugh circus today.

Poor Lindsey Graham, he felt "ambushed" because someone read his
compassionate words about sexual assault victims from his book.
Ambushed.

Grassley interrupts all the women.

I truly hope that the women who voted for Republicans have been
paying attention.

They call women liars when a sexual assault claim is made.
Republican Senators have been rude, dismissive and full of contempt.

 

[Venom]

Man I wish 99% of threads in this place didn't come to a screeching halt while one person dies to defend a hill that is nothing more than a distinction without difference.

Does anyone disagree with that?

Depends.

I don't like seeing words or issues cheapened by sensationalism and attempts to turn a situation black and white to make it more palatable for the outrage machine. Example: people throwing the word "rape" around when it's groping or they could better describe it in more general terms, like sexual assault.

Yes, the victim may feel violated/humiliated whether catcalled, touched, or penetrated by force, but I very much doubt she would feel the same degree of physical/emotional pain in all cases.

 

[Elagabalus]

Feminism's problem isn't just the fact that the lunatics obsessed with their own genitals exist. It's that a more rational alternative version of it doesn't seem to.

Just in the last few days, I got a few more of the usual routine feminist memes on FaceBook. Why does my browser's spellchecker still not recognize that word?...

This was on the news last night

 

[kellyb]

This was on the news last night

That's exactly one criminally crazy lady - not a "feminism" thing at all.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Facebook feeds really are the most diabolical horsecrap in the history of diabolical horsecraps.

Errrrr I'm.... of a complicated opinion of the whole thing oddly enough.

Social Media was never meant to be, and to the best of my knowledge has never really presented itself as, a functioning human beings sole source of information.

I'm not saying they are 100 (or even a far, far less large number) percent innocent of the whole affair and haven't used it to their advantage with negative results, but on a base level it's not Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and so on's fault that people decided to use them to make bubbles for themselves.

I raise an eyebrow over people talking about Facebook or Twitter in these hushed tones (to be fair probably because there's so much overlap between the legit dangers of social media and a good old fashioned cane waggling "Kids these days won't get off their durn phones" routine) like it's the boogeyman or something, but I also try my best to remember that's because the idea of using Facebook as anything other than a way to keep in contact with my friends and family and as a sort of glorified modern take on the RSS Feed to push me Hockey Stores and Steam Sales just never occurred to me.

I never used it in a way that allowed me to accidentally find myself getting to the "Here's something that arguably the most advanced AI yet developed has determined is most likely to outrage you that we're going to drip feed to you through the entire course of your waking laugh through a device that is never going to be more than an arms reach away from you" stage.

 

[kellyb]

I'm not saying they are 100 (or even a far, far less large number) percent innocent of the whole affair and haven't used it to their advantage with negative results, but on a base level it's not Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and so on's fault that people decided to use them to make bubbles for themselves.

I just know they made it addictive on purpose. http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...d_to_be_addictive_does_that_make_it_evil.html

“The thought process was all about, ‘How do we consume as much of your time and conscious attention as possible?’,” he said. “And that means that we need to sort of give you a little dopamine hit every once in a while, because someone liked or commented on a photo or a post or whatever, and that’s going to get you to contribute more content, and that’s going to get you more likes and comments. It’s a social validation feedback loop. … You’re exploiting a vulnerabilty in human psychology.”

And they also manipulate the algorithms and functionality in increasingly unethical ways.

 

[Delvo]

A FaceBook feed is just people on your Friends list posting what they think, no more, no less.

 

[kellyb]

A FaceBook feed is just people on your Friends list posting what they think, no more, no less.

Facebook will also insert other stuff in there based on stuff you've hit the like button on before, as well as things friends are tagged in, etc.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

A FaceBook feed is just people on your Friends list posting what they think, no more, no less.

It would seem that your survey says more about the circles you choose to travel in than public sentiment in general.