Christopher 7 --- C7 & C4

[Gravy]

Chris, your "squibs" would like a word with you.

Maybe some day you'll stop to think about why these brilliant demolitions experts chose, as you posit, to risk placing charges where they were absolutely unnecessary.

Do you ever stop to THINK, Chris?

 

[Christopher7]

Why was this amazing event not caught on video? Please explain.

Maybe it was.
Are you going to put up $13,700 for the answer?
How long has this offer been available?

Why was the bowing of the exterior columns on both towers at the collapse points clearly recorded (and commented on from the air and the ground) but not these huge explosions you refer to? Please explain.

There are no "squibs" until after the collapses begin: even where smoke and flames are visibly fanned by air pressure changes in the towers, no perturbations appear when these supposed explosions go off. Please explain.

The large "squib" high on the north face of the north tower has an average speed of 35 mph and accelerates as the collapse progresses. Please explain how explosives can account for that.

Finally, please explain what should happen to the air pressure (and light dust, smoke, and debris) in the towers as the collapses progress.

This is a debate about evidence of a CD in WTC 7

 

[Christopher7]

False. Earthquakes have leveled high-rises.

Like these?

Earthquakes don't make steel frame high rise buildings disintegrate into a pile of rubble mostly within the original footprint of the building.

Like this:

 

[R.Mackey]

I see an important distinction between all of your earthquake photos and the WTC towers, one related to their state prior to collapse. Do you?

 

[Belz...]

ALL high rise buildings, before and after 9/11 that have resulted in a 'global collapse', have been CD's.

You're making my point, Chris. The only thing that makes you think it was a CD is the fact that you've ONLY seen high-rise buildings collapse because of CDs. You have no basis for comparison, and you're using your own ignorance as an argument.

Exaggerate much?

I'm sure some of WTC2 got into number 7. My point stands, and since you haven't been able to respond to it...

 

[Belz...]

Right. Only demo experts, firemen and engineers are qualified to know an explosion when they hear one.

They would be more likely to identify it as such, yes.

Plausible deniability. The deniers best friend.

Evasion seems to be yours.

That sure as hell sounds like a CD!

Most loud noises tend to sound like one another, don't you agree ?

Earthquakes don't make steel frame high rise buildings disintegrate into a pile of rubble mostly within the original footprint of the building.

I would expect not, because most earthquakes don't involve jet planes.

 

[Gravy]

Maybe it was.
Are you going to put up $13,700 for the answer?

So I should pay for YOUR research? That's an interesting concept. Perhaps you should think more carefully about that.

Why not ask the "84%" of Americans who agree with you to ante up? What kind of "movement" do you belong to that's incapable of raising a total of $13,700 from a population of 252 million people who agree with you, in order to bring down these horrible, horrible inside-jobbers? Was your "Trick or Treat for Truth" really such a bust?

Third time: were any explosions heard at the WTC on 9/11 that weren't bombs or demo charges?

 

[jaydeehess]

Either they have no sound or they were taken from a distance and started after the big bang.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVdnFFNbPK8

No 2 buildings are exactly alike so no 2 demolition 'rigs' are exactly alike.

The 'clap of thunder' was probably most of the explosives going off at once or in very rapid succession.
The squibs were over 500' up and far away from any camera.

This ONLY in response to a comment by Smith about the sound of explosives.

I ask yet again if you are going to post any evidence of explosives in WTC 7.

You have been asked to present your case several times now and have so far not only failed to do so, you have completely ignored the query.

 

[jaydeehess]

Like these?

[qimg]http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3192/taiwansixslc1.jpg[/qimg]

Earthquakes don't make steel frame high rise buildings disintegrate into a pile of rubble mostly within the original footprint of the building.

Like this:

[qimg]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2510/wtc7debris2iu7.jpg[/qimg]

Earthquakes take buildings down by swinging them back and forth. (this is a simplification as EVERY building will react somewhat differently to different quakes, too many variables, x,y,z velocities and frequency and the characteristic resonance freqs of the building, the ground type, foundation type....) The greatest stress is at ground level at the pivot point for a building in this motion, and the greatest stress at ground level would occur at the perimeter, any central columns are not bending as much as the perimeter columns. When connections to the ground along ONE side (foundation-column junction) fail, the entire building is leaning, it drops a distance of ONE or TWO storeys while leaning and topples.

WTC 7 , it is supposed, lost one column in the center of the structure. That took out other central columns. The stress created would be pulling the perimeter inwards. The failure, it is supposed, originated somewhere below the 13th floor and therefore not neccessarily akin to most earthquake damage. The horizontal progression of collapse went west from the initiating column failure but seems not to have gone east. The east portion was different from the west portion in the way loads were transferred, the east being more of a conservative post and beam system all the way to the ground. The SW corner of the building was severly damaged and would offer no resistance to inward pulling.

You pointed out that all CD's are different. So are all collapes.

 

[jaydeehess]

That sure as hell sounds like a CD!

Most loud noises tend to sound like one another, don't you agree ?

I have asked on many occasions what it would sound like when a steel column snaps or a floor collapses. Would it be a whoosh, a whistle, a ping, or a bang/boom?

I can make a 'gunshot' by clapping two 2 X 6's, I can make an 'explosion' by dropping a large book on the floor. In fact the building I work in is structural brick with heavy wood cross members. I work on the first floor and the group on the second floor often drops a heavy camera bag( professional beta cam weighs about 25 pounds) on the floor. They do not drop it hard enough to damage the camera but hearing it while on the first floor you'd swear that someone just set off a small bomb. Newcomers in my area have been known to duck at the sound.

My point, lest someone wish to mischaracterize the above, is that "sounds like" is very much not clear evidence of anything specific.

 

[The Almond]

I have asked on many occasions what it would sound like when a steel column snaps or a floor collapses. Would it be a whoosh, a whistle, a ping, or a bang/boom?

At school, we used to test reinforcing steel (called rebar) in a universal testing machine. When testing the bars in tension, they would deform to a certain amount, undergo strain hardening and then finally snap. The little wires and #3 bars made a loud pop, but nothing to write home about. One day, though, we tried putting in a #18. When it broke, we had professors and students coming in from the 3rd floor wondering what the hell was going on. The noise was deafening, like a cannon going off or something.

 

[jaydeehess]

At school, we used to test reinforcing steel (called rebar) in a universal testing machine. When testing the bars in tension, they would deform to a certain amount, undergo strain hardening and then finally snap. The little wires and #3 bars made a loud pop, but nothing to write home about. One day, though, we tried putting in a #18. When it broke, we had professors and students coming in from the 3rd floor wondering what the hell was going on. The noise was deafening, like a cannon going off or something.

I watched the testing of sea ice and iceberg cores in a portable lab in the Arctic. the samples were cylinders of ice about 3 inches in dia. and about 8 inches long. they were compressed until they broke. 1st year sea ice wasn't too bad but icebergs and multi-year ice was incredibly tough. when it shattered it broke with a gunshot bang. Iceberg ice and some multi-year ice is stronger than the steel hulls of icebreaker ships.

 

[Christopher7]

So I should pay for YOUR research? That's an interesting concept. Perhaps you should think more carefully about that.

My research?
So you think these photographs and videos will help me prove it was a CD?
Don't you want to see them?
Shouldn't they be part of your research too?

Why not ask the "84%" of Americans who agree with you to ante up? What kind of "movement" do you belong to that's incapable of raising a total of $13,700 from a population of 252 million people who agree with you, in order to bring down these horrible, horrible inside-jobbers? Was your "Trick or Treat for Truth" really such a bust?

I can only speak for myself and i'm about $13,600 shy.

Third time: were any explosions heard at the WTC on 9/11 that weren't bombs or demo charges?

I don't know.

 

[Gravy]

My research?
So you think these photographs and videos will help me prove it was a CD?
Don't you want to see them?
Shouldn't they be part of your research too?

I'm not the one questioning the evidence. You are.

I can only speak for myself and i'm about $13,600 shy.

So start a fund-raising effort. You thing the U.S. government committed the 9/11 attacks, and you are trying to break open the biggest conspiracy in U.S. history, aren't you?

No, or course you aren't. You're just playing video games. You have no interest in solving this huge "unsolved" crime. You had to be pestered and embarrassed into contacting NIST, after I sent them the information that you refused to send, and you can't be bothered to raise a few dollars to unmask the evil villains who murdered thousands of Americans.

That's pathetic, Chris.

I don't know.

Thank you.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2244381&postcount=186

Now you know.

 

[A W Smith]

I can only speak for myself and i'm about $13,600 shy.

Why not get ANOTHER paper route? Thats it. Double up. Buy a Schwinn with saddle baskets. Consider it a business investment. Yeah go full out dude.

 

[Belz...]

No, or course you aren't. You're just playing video games. You have no interest in solving this huge "unsolved" crime. You had to be pestered and embarrassed into contacting NIST, after I sent them the information that you refused to send, and you can't be bothered to raise a few dollars to unmask the evil villains who murdered thousands of Americans.

That's pathetic, Chris.

You know, when you put it like that, it really makes you wonder whether these guys actually believe their own nonsense.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Why not get ANOTHER paper route? Thats it. Double up. Buy a Schwinn with saddle baskets. Consider it a business investment. Yeah go full out dude.

$13,500 would be a pretty small investment, considering he'd be an international celebrity for breaking the biggest story in...well, in history, really.

The talk-show circuit alone would make him a millionaire.

 

[Christopher7]

I'm not the one questioning the evidence. You are.

Fair enough

So start a fund-raising effort. You thing the U.S. government committed the 9/11 attacks, and you are trying to break open the biggest conspiracy in U.S. history, aren't you?

I'm on it
Would you happen to know where these pricy pics & vids are for sale?

No, or course you aren't. You're just playing video games. You have no interest in solving this huge "unsolved" crime. You had to be pestered and embarrassed into contacting NIST, after I sent them the information that you refused to send, and you can't be bothered to raise a few dollars to unmask the evil villains who murdered thousands of Americans.

On the contrary sir. I didn't send the information to them because i didn't think it would do any good. When you said you wanted to send it, i told you to go ahead. They are not going to read it, your challenge was pure sarcasm.

 

[Belz...]

I'm on it

Then you will raise the 13,000 dollars ?

Or are you just blowing smoke ?

 

[Belz...]

I just can't help but notice you haven't answered my previous points, Chris. Just like other CTers.

Run, run, run.