Christopher 7 --- C7 & C4

C7 said:
The result is the implosion of WTC 7 and the debris pile is mostly within the original footprint of the building

Wrong

When a building falls in on itself, that's called an implosion, whatever the cause.

Implosion has become synonymous with controlled demolition because up until 9/11, that's the only thing that has made a high rise building implode.

NIST said the debris pile was contained mostly within the original footprint.


the result is that the core of the building failed first. You still have shown no evidence that this was caused by any explosives being placed on the columns in question. All you have now stated is that NIST was correct in their assesment of the sequence of collapse.
The sequence of the collapse is consistent with the NIST report and a building implosion.

Which it did not! A couple of surrounding buildings suffered major damage. Any debris that fell to the south hit WTC 6(or 5, I forget now) and so any further damage that occured there would not be particularily visible unless the parts of WTC 7 that hit it remained intact and recognizable.
NIST Apx.L pg 33
The debris from WTC 7 was mostly contained within the original footprint of the building.

Some debris damaged buildings to the north and to the south.

That's not surprising given that WTC 7 was 570 feet tall and only 170 feet from front to back.

So far now the 'evidence' that has you convinced that this was a controlled demolition is that there is no evidence
The visual evidence is:

WTC 7 displays all the characteristics of a building implosion.

You cannot ignore Daryl and Craig or say that what they heard were definitely not explosions.

Implosion by CD cannot be ruled out.


The evidence for debris damage/fire is:

There was significant/severe debris damage and a lot of fire on the south side of WTC 7.
Likely damage to a core column.

Four fire chiefs thought it was going to collapse.

NIST says it "appears possible" that the failure of a single key column led to the global collapse.

Collapse due to debris damage/fire is by no means certain.


 
Wrong

When a building falls in on itself, that's called an implosion, whatever the cause.

Implosion has become synonymous with controlled demolition because up until 9/11, that's the only thing that has made a high rise building implode.

from wiki:
Buildings are colloquially described to implode when demolished through explosives, causing them to collapse on themselves. Implosion is the inward collapse

I have never seen the use of 'implode' in describing an inward collapse except in the case of demolitions by the use of explosives. Whenever a building on fire has had inner column fail and the roof fall in I have seen it reported as a collapse. There are ample examples of buildings with the walls still partially standing and the rest of the building has collapsed inward. Nonetheless, if you can find any reference to an implosion that does not refer to a CD I'd be interested in seeing it, thanks.


The sequence of the collapse is consistent with the NIST report and a building implosion.

NIST Apx.L pg 33
The debris from WTC 7 was mostly contained within the original footprint of the building.

Some debris damaged buildings to the north and to the south.

That's not surprising given that WTC 7 was 570 feet tall and only 170 feet from front to back
The visual evidence is:

WTC 7 displays all the characteristics of a building implosion..


So once again this, in your humble opinion, must be a demolition because it sorta looks like one. In fact it displays a few aspects of a controlled demolition, one of which is that gravity worked in the same direction as it does in a CD.

You cannot ignore Daryl and Craig or say that what they heard were definitely not explosions.

Why not? You have no problem ignoring many things that others have said. It that reserved only for Chris Sarns?

These two report a loud noise and personally characterize it as that of an explosion. That is as far as this goes.

Implosion by CD cannot be ruled out.

,,,, and ,,,,

The evidence for debris damage/fire is:

There was significant/severe debris damage and a lot of fire on the south side of WTC 7.
Likely damage to a core column.

Four fire chiefs thought it was going to collapse.

NIST says it "appears possible" that the failure of a single key column led to the global collapse.

So many of the trained personel on site at that time say it was going to collapse to the popint that the NYFD pushed all people back from the building farther than the building is high , there are fires on many floors and on all 4 sides(one of the biggest fires was on the 7th floor and involved about 20% of the north side to the east of the center), the building suffered significant structural damage due to impacts ,,,,,,,, and you have that two guys heard a loud boom and the building fell inward.(oh yeah and some windows blew out when the collapse was already well underway)

To you this constitutes showing that CD is a much better explanation for the cause of the collapse.

(with apologies to aggle-rithm)
Really?


Collapse due to debris damage/fire is by no means certain.

No, but the preponderance of evidence points to it being a collapse as a result of mechanical damage due to debris impacts and fire damage. That you choose to accept the outside chance of pre-planted explosives says a lot about either your gullibility or your political prejudices(or both). It also illustrates your unwillingness to use that old 'critical thinking' thing so bandied about on these here web forums.
 
from wiki:


I have never seen the use of 'implode' in describing an inward collapse except in the case of demolitions by the use of explosives.
Neither have i.

Whenever a building on fire has had inner column fail and the roof fall in I have seen it reported as a collapse.
There are ample examples of buildings with the walls still partially standing and the rest of the building has collapsed inward. Nonetheless, if you can find any reference to an implosion that does not refer to a CD I'd be interested in seeing it, thanks.
You're referring to the toilet paper factory, and other wide open or 4 story buildings.

Please site an example of a steel frame, high rise building collapsing in the center.

So once again this, in your humble opinion, must be a demolition because it sorta looks like one. In fact it displays a few aspects of a controlled demolition, one of which is that gravity worked in the same direction as it does in a CD.
WTC 7 more than 'sorta looks like' an implosion.

It has all the visual characteristics, including the total collapse into a pile of rubble, mostly within it's original footprint. IMHO

C7 said:
You cannot ignore Daryl and Craig or say that what they heard were definitely not explosions

Why not? You have no problem ignoring many things that others have said. It that reserved only for Chris Sarns?
There are conflicting statements:

Daryl heard 'a clap of thunder' about one second before the lower floors caved out.

Craig said "I know an explosion when I hear one."

and

Two experts from Controlled Demolition Inc., who said that they were there and that they did not hear any explosions.

These two report a loud noise and personally characterize it as that of an explosion. That is as far as this goes.
They were there and heard the explosions. You were not.

You don't know what they heard and you cannot rule out the possibility that they indeed, heard explosions.

You constantly insist that they are wrong and you are right.

So many of the trained personel on site at that time say it was going to collapse
Only 3 or 4 that i know of. [source: Gravy's list]


No, but the preponderance of evidence points to it being a collapse as a result of mechanical damage due to debris impacts and fire damage. That you choose to accept the outside chance of pre-planted explosives says a lot about either your gullibility or your political prejudices(or both).
My belief that WTC 7 was an implosion is because of what i see in the videos of the collapse,
and that it disintedrated in to a pile of rubble, mostly within it's original footprint.
 
You're referring to the toilet paper factory, and other wide open or 4 story buildings.

Please site an example of a steel frame, high rise building collapsing in the center.

"Please cite an example so impossibly similar to WTC7's case that you won't be able to."

WTC 7 more than 'sorta looks like' an implosion.

It collapsed. Demolished buildings collapse. Please explain what other similarity you noticed.

It has all the visual characteristics, including the total collapse into a pile of rubble, mostly within it's original footprint. IMHO

"Mostly". Seems like you're keeping yourself some wiggle-room. Fact is: it damaged nearby buildings when it collapsed. Controlled demolitions don't do that. Ergo, that is NOT a similarity between the two. What other characteristics, out of "all [of them]", did you notice ?

Daryl heard 'a clap of thunder' about one second before the lower floors caved out.

Craig said "I know an explosion when I hear one."

ONE explosion ? Do you know ANYTHING about building demolitions ?

They were there and heard the explosions. You were not.

You're right. He wasn't. But since we can see more faces of the building we're more apt to judge the situation then the people who were there. No, wait. That's not MY argument.

You don't know what they heard and you cannot rule out the possibility that they indeed, heard explosions.

Again with the proving negatives. What IS it with you guys ?

You constantly insist that they are wrong and you are right.

I'm seeing a pot and a kettle.

My belief that WTC 7 was an implosion is because of what i see in the videos of the collapse,
and that it disintedrated in to a pile of rubble, mostly within it's original footprint.

So your "belief" is based on your layman, second-hand observations, and on an incorrect assessment of the event. Nice.
 
"This thread is NOT about CD" so says Chris 7 on another thread.

So I am bumping this one since he has lost sight of it since Feb 09/07.

Once again Chris,, have at it.

Perhaps you'd like to give a short , point by point list of your evidence of CD that has been discussed in this thread so far.
 
Source? How quickly is 'quickly'?

As quickly as you can put your finger in your nose or wipe your ............

Yes there was: it was a criminal investigation. Not abnormal.

Comparatively as abnormal as putting your finger in your mouth after picking and wiping.

Actually, the photos belong to whatever entity took the photo.

Knowing where your fingers go, you mean the entity that confiscated the photos.

Uhh, there's dozens of videos. They're the ones that CTs use to parrot the 'fell in 6 seconds' lie.

And they are excellent evidence which you have to then put your finger in your eye to ignore.

There's certainly members here with more experience in criminal investigation laws and what not who can tell you far more than I can.

That is hilarious. They wouldn't know a law if the broke it or supported its violation. They would do everything they could to silence somebody that exposed their violations or support for violations.

Now that we've got that out of the way, let's see some evidence of bombs.

This is way better than bombs.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg

Sorry for being so nasty, but I am really pi$$ed at this place for CENSORSHIP.
 
Last edited:
you weren't censored, Christophera, you were suspended for spamming and abuse of the forum rules.

if you continue to post links to your website as a reply to everything, with nothing new to add and ad hom attacks against other posters, you will be reported again for abuse.


ETA : and that is not a picture of the core exploding; which you've been told more than once; that a still image doesn't show what is really happening. That is what happens when a collapse occurs.
 
you weren't censored, Christophera, you were suspended for spamming and abuse of the forum rules.

if you continue to post links to your website as a reply to everything, with nothing new to add and ad hom attacks against other posters, you will be reported again for abuse.


ETA : and that is not a picture of the core exploding; which you've been told more than once; that a still image doesn't show what is really happening. That is what happens when a collapse occurs.

Perhaps you do not know the site you post on.

I might be wrong, but as far as I can tell there is no way to find this post that was removed from the thread it was posted in.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2248014#post2248014

An entire page was removed from the "Realistic" thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57426&page=277

compare the last number in that url to the page number displayed when you activate the link. Weird stuff here. But you would know evidence if you put it in your eye.
 
Perhaps you do not know the site you post on.

I might be wrong, but as far as I can tell there is no way to find this post that was removed from the thread it was posted in.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2248014#post2248014
again, you're showing that you are a liar Chris,

any "post" deemed by the mods to be spam or not on topic are moved to another forum ( http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19 ). YOu receive notices of the move by an automatic post to you by the mods.


An entire page was removed from the "Realistic" thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57426&page=277

compare the last number in that url to the page number displayed when you activate the link. Weird stuff here. But you would know evidence if you put it in your eye.

false , which shows you dont understand the workings of vBulletin; its a function of the php script that when a number on the Page= exceeds the total number of pages, it shows the last page on that url

go ahead and plug in page=376 and see what page displays (page 276)

Its to prevent Search engines from accessing and crawling pages that do not exist.



Before assuming something nefarious, its best to learn about the software.
 
Christopher7

I watched your googlevideo link hoping to finally see a video which captures the sound of the WTC7 demolition charges going off.

I didn't hear any.

Please show me a video that picks up the rapid-fire demolition sequence. Those charges are LOUD. Any mic in the area should have picked them up.
 
ETA : and that is not a picture of the core exploding; which you've been told more than once; that a still image doesn't show what is really happening. That is what happens when a collapse occurs.

So I was mistaken about the function of the BB software. But my post was not spam is was a serious rebuttal which applies to you.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2248014#post2248014

And when it comes to lying, well, you take the cake because demolitions look like this, not collapses.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg
 
And when it comes to lying, well, you take the cake because demolitions look like this, not collapses.

Who said WTC7 didn't look like a demolition?

The problem for you is that it didn't sound like one and the FDNY said it would collapse from structural damage.

And I'm sure you don't wanna blame the FDNY for the demolition and/or coverup.
 
Christopher7

I watched your googlevideo link hoping to finally see a video which captures the sound of the WTC7 demolition charges going off.
I didn't hear any.
Please show me a video that picks up the rapid-fire demolition sequence. Those charges are LOUD. Any mic in the area should have picked them up.
As you well know, there are no videos of the collapse with the sounds of explosives currently available on the web.
So ignore everything else.

The government collected, and has kept from public view, over 6,000 video clips and over 6,000 photographs.

You can now see them for a measly $13,800

Chances are that one of the news clips was close enough to hear the clap of thunder that Daryl heard.
 
As you well know, there are no videos of the collapse with the sounds of explosives currently available on the web.
So ignore everything else.

Well see that's the problem.

Demolition charges are LOUD! Very loud! It's simply not possible that NONE of the WTC7 videos captured the bangs.

If charges took down WTC7 then there would be clear audio evidence and THOUSANDS of people saying they heard them. No audio = no demolition.

The government collected, and has kept from public view, over 6,000 video clips and over 6,000 photographs. You can now see them for a measly $13,800

No problem! Rosie and Charlie Sheen have millions of $$$.

Chances are that one of the news clips was close enough to hear the clap of thunder that Daryl heard.

Two problems:

1) everyone in southern NYC would have heard the charges, not just "Daryl."

2) a demolition involves dozens - even hundreds - of charges going off in rapid sequence. A "clap of thunder" won't cut it.

And yes - WTC7 does indeed look like a demolition.

But then Mark Roberts looks like Robert Deniro and my brother looks like Patrick Roy.

Doesn't mean Mark's a movie star or that my bro won 4 Stanley Cups, does it?
 
Well see that's the problem.

Demolition charges are LOUD! Very loud! It's simply not possible that NONE of the WTC7 videos captured the bangs.

If charges took down WTC7 then there would be clear audio evidence and THOUSANDS of people saying they heard them. No audio = no demolition.
Everyone [or most everyone] was kept back 600 feet, that's two blocks.

Most everyone had buildings between them and WTC 7.

Few, including Daryl and Craig, heard the explosions.

There is no set sequence of demolition size or timing.

Every CD is tailored to the task at hand.
 
Everyone [or most everyone] was kept back 600 feet, that's two blocks.

Most everyone had buildings between them and WTC 7.

Few, including Daryl and Craig, heard the explosions.

There is no set sequence of demolition size or timing.

Every CD is tailored to the task at hand.

Oh, come on C7. I could hear a shotgun easily at 600 feet.

The sequence of any supposed CD of WTC 7 would include (if the hypothesis of those who subscribe to a CD collapse is the case) those that blow columns 79, and/or 80, and/or 81 and/or the transfer trusses and perhaps followed by those that blow the interior columns not only at the lower floors but at intervals all the way to the top and then there are the ones that produced the 'squibs' which go off after the north wall has started to drop.

How many would that be then Chris 7?
Was there only ONE? The 'thunderclap' was the only one heard? Just ONE?

In the much bigger buildings , WTC 1 & 2 we are told that the boom,boom,boom was evidence of demiolitions but there is no boom,boom,boom at WTC 7. So, only ONE boom?

However, the sound, at least that one sound, could be an explosion. It is by no means a given though since it could also be a steel member giving up and snapping. We also have no way of knowing the timing of this sound do we? Did it occur before the east penthouse started to sink or after it had already began to plunge? Since we do not know then it could also be the equipment in the east penthouse breaking free and impacting the 47th floor. It also appears that the falling of the east penthouse initiated the separation of the east and west portions of the building( there is a natural shear plane there. taking out a few columns would increase the likihood of such a separation along that plane since it would be weaker than any other plane) and the 'thunderclap' could then also be the east section separating from the west.



CHF writes:
a demolition involves dozens - even hundreds - of charges going off in rapid sequence. A "clap of thunder" won't cut it

In the video Chris 7 supplies above the narrator says "hundreds". Chris 7 might not agree.
The narrator also states tha the building fell in 6 seconds which is a blatant lie. That completely ignores the interior failures that are part and parcel of the collapse. Something happened well before the east penthouse starts to sink inward. The time it took to collapse MUST start at the time this initial failure occured. The 6 seconds is just the time it took for the north facade to fall, some to the south and some to the north.

As for the manner of collapse it does fall almost within its own footprint. Significant damage is done to 30 West Broadway and other debris does impact the buildings to the east and west and WTC 6 to the south. This is a fairly compact area but is it direct evidence of a CD?
No, it isn't. The building's initial failure occured in the interior of the building and progressed through the core. This would cause the building to fall inward on itself. But the south wall was already damaged and thus weakened and that would cause that section (the western section) to preferentially also fall southward. I am not sure why the east section went north east.

So we have two bits of circumstantial evidence of CD. The loud bang and the manner of collapse.
These two bits of circumstantial evidence do have other explanations as well though and are therefore not conclusive.
Chris 7 however also states that in regard to the other hypothesis, DD/F, that there is no direct, empirical evidence of DD/F to the area of the initial failure and this is the case for the CD hypothesis as well. There is no direct, empirical evidence of explosives being placed or going off in WTC 7 let alone them being placed or going off in the area of the initial failure.
 

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