Case Study of a Moron

[armageddonman]

Even more challenging, are the fellows that bow hunt. That is the ultimate test of ones hunting skill

Great. Killing animals for fun. That is REALLY a great "sport".

 

[Shane Costello]

Considering the brutality that's inherent in the natural world, the deer/bear/fox/platypus that's clinically dispatched by the hunters bullet is a very lucky animal indeed.

 

[armageddonman]

An arrow doesn't "clinically dispatch" an animal. Besides that, an animal that lives is certainly happier than his fellow that was killed by someone who gets a kick out of doing so.

 

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by armageddonman:

An arrow doesn't "clinically dispatch" an animal.

I've wondered about that myself. Bears are hunted with bows, and I'd like to know if this is an humane means of killing them.

Besides that, an animal that lives is certainly happier than his fellow that was killed by someone who gets a kick out of doing so.

That an animal lives is beside the point. It will die sometime. Some end up starving and freezing to death in the winter. Some are killed and eaten by other animals. Some will sustain injuries and endure very painful, lingering deaths. Older animals will be killed by rivals or end up enduring one of the above exits. A painless death simply isn't an option in the natural world. Mother Nature doesn't run a welfare state. LIvestock have better living conditions than wildlife, simply because it is in our selfish interests that it be so.

So maybe you should stop and think before mindlessly peddling the PETA line.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Shane, by your logic- it would be fine for me to shoot you since you are going to die at some time anyway.

That an animal lives is beside the point. It will die sometime.

 

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by Jon_in_London:

Shane, by your logic- it would be fine for me to shoot you since you are going to die at some time anyway.

Sweet Divine, we should start a "Strawman of the Year" competition around here!

How on earth could my point about the harsh realities of the natural world be construed as an endorsement of the culling of old, infirm and terminally ill members of society! Are you drunk?

 

[armageddonman]

So maybe you should stop and think before mindlessly peddling the PETA line.

The intention of the hunter is NOT sparing the animal from a painful or miseable death but to enjoy killing it. I totally agree that there are cases where hunting is neccessary, e.g. to keep the population on a healthy level, but hunting for "sport" is IMHO plainly wrong.

 

[Guest]

Undercover Elephant,

You're forgetting that one part of the UK, Northern Ireland, is creaking under the weight of illegal firearms, and despite Tony asking them very nicely, the murder gangs don't want to give them up.

Maybe true, but I think NI is a bit of a special case.

 

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by UndercoverElephant:

Maybe true, but I think NI is a bit of a special case.

It could also be argued that the US is a special case, consdering its diverse ethnic structre, and the divergence of homicide rates between those ethnic groups.

 

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by armageddonman:

The intention of the hunter is NOT sparing the animal from a painful or miseable death but to enjoy killing it.

Not sure if this is an accurate representation of hunting and hunters. If you get your jollies from killing animals then you could always get a job in an abbatoir or at the dog pound. Or go on the road with Ozzy Osbourne.

I totally agree that there are cases where hunting is neccessary, e.g. to keep the population on a healthy level, but hunting for "sport" is IMHO plainly wrong.

IIRC recreational hunting is an integral part of conservation efforts to keep animal populations at manageable levels.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Jon_in_London:




Sweet Divine, we should start a "Strawman of the Year" competition around here!

How on earth could my point about the harsh realities of the natural world be construed as an endorsement of the culling of old, infirm and terminally ill members of society! Are you drunk?

Not a strawman. Its what your logic implies.

There is a difference between culling and hunting. I must also say that you are right in saying that hunting can be important for game-park management, also good if hunters have to pay for their licenses and that money is ploughed back into the park.This is very important in the African context. Like I said earlier, i have no probs with hunting for the pot or culling for game managment but please dont try and call it a sport.

Also, there may be times when its neccesary to cull a predator (we dont tend to eat predators) but this is rare and IMO best left to rangers. So I find it hard to condone bear hunting for ex.

 

[Jon_in_london]

btw- Im not drunk yet but Im doing my best

 

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by Jon_in_London:

Not a strawman. Its what your logic implies.

Only if you're mad enough to presume I believe there's no distinction between animals and people.

btw- Im not drunk yet but Im doing my best

I'm taking tomorrow off to go drinking tonight so who am I to preach.

 

[Richard G]

The intention of the hunter is NOT sparing the animal from a painful or miseable death but to enjoy killing it. I totally agree that there are cases where hunting is neccessary, e.g. to keep the population on a healthy level, but hunting for "sport" is IMHO plainly wrong.

Holy ◊◊◊◊, what an incredible amount of ignorance being displayed here. We are at the top of the food chain. We are natural predators. I eat everything I kill. Where do you think that Big Mac comes from? Think they grow that stuff on trees buddy?

People today are so far removed from the food chain, unless its pre-packaged in a styrofoam box for them, they would be too stupid to go out and get it.

Great. Killing animals for fun. That is REALLY a great "sport".

I must address this idiocy. I hunt to eat. Do you think dolley the cow has any chance of surviving the slaughter house, born and bread on the farm for that very purpose? Chance of survival is zero.

Every animal I hunt is in its natural habitat, and their senses are far better than mine. They have every chance in the world to escape, and if I make one mistake, they get away every time.
As an added bonus, my meat is CLEAN. All that solmanella, and other food born disease comes from the workers and processing plants where the meat is butchered. This isn't a problem with meat I've taken myself.

IIRC recreational hunting is an integral part of conservation efforts to keep animal populations at manageable levels.

Absolutely correct. Nobody, and I mean nobody does more for wildlife conservation in this country than hunters, and hunter organisations. When the inept. Dept of Natural Resources has questions, they ask the hunters. Many time we have to get in their ass because they do more harm than good.

 

[Victor Danilchenko]

bjornart

No, [USA's anomalously high firearm homicide rates says] something useful about being trigger-happy gun freaks.

Don't be a jerk. USA has higher non-firearm homicide rates, too. Yes, USA has a cultural problem, but guns ain't it, nor are the gun owners.

Oh yeah, and your previous post says something about you being a jibe-happy unthinking freak. America-hatin' and freedom-hatin' and apple-pie-hatin' freak, too. I betcha you want to have sex with the terrorists' sheep, you evil pervert, you!

 

[Jon_in_london]

Holy ◊◊◊◊, what an incredible amount of ignorance being displayed here. We are at the top of the food chain. We are natural predators. I eat everything I kill. Where do you think that Big Mac comes from? Think they grow that stuff on trees buddy?

People today are so far removed from the food chain, unless its pre-packaged in a styrofoam box for them, they would be too stupid to go out and get it.

I agree with you here, what I cant fathom is meat-eaters who are against hunting. Where do they think meat comes from????????????????????????????????????????????

But I still dont think that hunting is a sport. Kill animals for food-OK. Kill animals for the thrill- you sick cnut.

 

[armageddonman]

We are at the top of the food chain. We are natural predators.

We are neither. We have laughable claws, teeth and sense of smelling. How many animals have you caught and killed using only your hands and teeth?

I eat everything I kill. Where do you think that Big Mac comes from? Think they grow that stuff on trees buddy?

I thought it was clear that I was referring to those hunters who hunt for sport. Besides that, I don't eat Big Macs or any other meat.

 

[Richard G]

I thought it was clear that I was referring to those hunters who hunt for sport. Besides that, I don't eat Big Macs or any other meat.

I think at last we get to the root of the matter.

 

[corplinx]

Jeez, the thread I started has become a debate on the ethics of hunting. That's a subject I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole.

 

[shanek]

The rate of Americans firearm homicides is not because of the availability of the guns

At least that much we agree with.

What do you think of the fact that 2.4 million crimes are prevented every year in America by armed citizens?