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Can Dimethyltryptamine DMT create Psychic Visions

BoogieWoogieWookie said:
Why is it that people come here, make claims, then ask us to prove their claims for them?
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Idunno, but methinks this one is looking for a way to get his mits on some drugs. Or maybe he's already produced so much DMT naturally in his head that he can't think straight anymore.
 
MortFurd said:
Actually, you've got a concrete suggestion already given above:
Log all your predictions online before the predicted event happens. If the predictions come true, then you've got proof of something that can be investigated. Up to that point, no one has to know how you got your visions. Whether you are taking DMT, licking tomatoes, or sticking beans up your nose to cause the visions is irrelevant. Once you prove that you can actually predict the future, you can begin worrying about the HOW of predicting the future.

Since you say that you are causing DMT to be produced wihtin your body by meditating, all you really need to do is provide some checkable predictions. There's no need to try to get anyone to start a study and get hold of DMT to dose people with.

Prove to yourself FIRST that you really can predict the future. You can prove it to us at the same time. If you really can do it, then the study can be done - but I'd suggest checking for the presence of DMT in the body. That is to say, don't take any. Do your meditation, predict the future, and see if your natural DMT level is elevated (there are tests for such things.)

No need really at all for anyone to be taking controlled substances.
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I agree, I thought about putting up a youtube video thing with predictions from visions I have had, but there are no visions anymore except a real controversial vision I SHARE WITH NO ONE, bad vision bad! My predictions really mostly ever occurred when I was under Extreme STRESS. Currently I have had NO Visions as my stress has diminished, which is why I would like to see if James can get an exogenous (taken from out side the body) study done. My body can't handle ANYMORE STRESS...no more stress please!!!

This shouldn't be a big deal as apparently we produce DMT when we dream, but the Law's made against DMT were back in the days when we didn't know DMT was being produced by the body, and it was thought to be safer to just make it illegal as we didn't understand it. Today we still do not understand it, but the law is slowing down science (to many legal hoops to jump through slows the process, I think in the US it is up there with Heron, I could be mistaken).

I speculate and I USE the word Speculate Strongly that it MAY have been my body pumping out DMT in these STRESSFUL times and creating premonitions, but since no transparent study's are being done with endogenous DMT created in meditation, prayer, so I can only guess, and guessing is not science, guessing is not truth, this is why I am here, not to debate but discover the TRUTH as most of us are.

DOES DMT create psychic visions, it is only speculation but if there can be a study performed with exogenous (taken from out side the body) as well as endogenous (created from within the body) of DMT and Extra Sensory Perception like Psychic Visions and Out of Body Experiences?

Can James Randi get a study to happen to prove or disprove this?

Since I came up with the IDEA and I would agree to partake in the study, so long as NO LAWS are broken and everything is legal and on the up and up I am game.

I would NOT Take the money, if in fact DMT was found to provoke visions of the future, my satisfaction would be in Answering this Burning Question CAN DMT create psychic visions?
 
How's about we just get proof of psyhic visions predicting the future FIRST? Then we can worry about finding out if DMT can cause them.

First it was was meditation that caused the visions, now its stress that you can't handle.

Here's a suggestion:

Write a coherent account of a psychic vision, what it predicted and what occurred. Describe also the details of how you went about having the vision to begin with.
 
I've not been here long, but this thread appears to be following a depressingly familiar pattern.
 
Naddig74 said:
Did you read PIHKAL? (Phenylethamines I Have Known And Loved) That was quite entertaining, I never read such a big book so quickly.
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Nah, just some bits and places. Interesting to see the (mostly) simple organic prep., and even more so to read the description of the effect after eating/smoking/injecting whatever alkaloid the Shulgins made. I noticed at least in one place that whoever tried a certain compound stopped breathing... And they are both still alive, that's totally crazy. I think they must have had quite an "interesting" life :D
 
woddyallen said:
I WANT STUDY'S not debate, can DMT create PSYCHIC VISIONS?

Can James Randi do a study, he, I assume has connections to resources to help prove or disprove this speculative claim.

I assume he knows Many reputable scientists that can perform a DMT study to examine if in fact DMT can create Psychic Visions of the Future. If James does not have this power I understand. Not many people can get a study done with DMT endogenous or exogenous effects on meditation, prayer and you got it Psychic visions!
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James Randi has better things to do.Conduct your own study and then get back to us.
 
woddyallen said:
I WANT STUDY'S not debate, can DMT create PSYCHIC VISIONS?

Can James Randi do a study, he, I assume has connections to resources to help prove or disprove this speculative claim.

I assume he knows Many reputable scientists that can perform a DMT study to examine if in fact DMT can create Psychic Visions of the Future. If James does not have this power I understand. Not many people can get a study done with DMT endogenous or exogenous effects on meditation, prayer and you got it Psychic visions!
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Please read this message slowly and try to comprehend what many of us are saying. I will then ask for a clear response regarding the issue being addressed in this post:

Psychic visions themselves are unproven, and indeed they are considered non-existent by most rational people. However, we can be proven wrong. If a psychic vision exists in any way, it should be provable.

Proving that a psychic vision exists is the first step in establishing a study such as the one for which you are asking. Without knowledge that such a phenomenon occurs, there is really nothing to study.

This is not a "debate", as you suggest. This is just the nature of science. If a study is to be performed to explain a phenomenon, it is important to recognize that the phenomenon itself has actually been observed. Until it is observed, there's really nothing to study.

Therefore, if you are serious in your pursuit, this is my question: For the first step in this process, how do you propose to prove the existence of psychic visions? Can you come up with a protocol by which this phenomenon can be observed?

If you can't answer the above question, then moving on to the second step and actually studying the phenomenon is impossible.
 
Amplifying dafydd above:

I don't speak for Randi, but my understanding is that he is not in the business of doing studies that others suggest.

He is, however, open to giving $1,000,000 to others who can demonstrate psychic abilities. But the onus for doing this is on the person making the claim, not James Randi. And, there must be mutually agreed-upon procedures for how the claim is demonstrated.

But anything illegal, including a study of an illegal drug, is off-limits for James Randi.

Go to http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html for more info.
 
roger said:
woddyallen, the JREF challenge isn't going to do any test that requires illegal actions (possessing, using a controlled substance), so there is no point in pursuing that.
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Out of curiosity, would the JREF be willing to conduct a test in a country where DMT is legal?
 
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Round and round and round it goes....where it stops nobody knows :(

ETA: It has already been explained to you why this is not possible:

Before you can test whether a substance can create psychic visions, it must first be established that you are having psychic visions. Until you can demonstrate a clear proof of premonition, any theory you may have concerning how they are generated is moot.

Randi does not conduct studies of this kind. Demanding his participation will not make him do so.

This is an internet forum and as such is only ever going to be a debating arena.

The first and most important thing you must do is predict a significant event, isolated by date and location, in plain english, before that event takes place. You can make that prediction here and you can trust the JREF forum users to watch that date and location very closely.

Until you do so, we are just going round in circles.
 
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How do you plan to verify that your "psychic visions" really predict the future? Answer that question, then we can discuss details of actually provoking the visions.

If your plan is "do drugs, trip, play connect the dots with visions and events" then it ain't gonna fly.
 
Naddig74 said:
Round and round and round it goes....where it stops nobody knows :(
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Where it stops, everybody knows:
"Oh, errm. Eh, well. That didn't work. It has to be impure DMT from a particular tree taken on the second friday the 13th in a leap year, whilst whistling yakee doodle and riding a bicycle underwater."
To which we reply "Why didn't you tell us about all those conditions?"
Which gets answered with "I didn't think they were important. Obviously they ARE important. Can we try it again?"
 
woddyallen said:
I read your post slowly 5 times and I say again "Can DMT create psychic visions"

I totally agree with science and the scientific process, I have developed a hypothesis and I want James to test it. So "Can DMT create psychic visions?"

You and I are allowed to hypothesize in science, but it is not the conclusion it is merely the opening chapter towards a conclusions. One thing about being a skeptic is not slamming the hypothesis, it is examining, testing and retesting the hypothesis. Whether or not Psychic visions have been proven in the past or not is moot, The question still remains can "DMT Create Psychic visions?"

Can James Randi Test this hypothesis? He is THE MAN! The truest of true Skeptics. There is no one on this planet alive that is above his skeptical eye, which is why I asked this question here. I once again do not want to debate, and I want to test an hypothesis, this is all. Can DMT create psychic visions?
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Either you are failing to understand or you are just being intentionally dishonest. Either way, I am finished here. I just want to say that I'm extremely thankful you decided against becoming a physicist. I rather like my physics to represent reality.
 
Oh, by the way, woddyallen, if your question just means "can DMT produce hallucinations like the things psychics describe in their visions," then I'd say "perfectly reasonable to expect that, and don't bother trying to do a study 'cause NOBODY would approve the use of an illegal drug for something that ludicrous."
 
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woddyallen said:
In the mean time if any Skeptics out there can get me some LEGAL declassified military DMT ESP study's, which I must assume do exist, if they can please forward them to me. NOT LSD or any other ESP Study's, ONLY declassified military DMT ESP Studies I would be more than grateful.

I wonder why the DMT military studies aren't declassified? I cannot figure out that and I try never to assume anything but I am pretty sure they have done ESP-DMT studies.
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Do you see what I'm getting at Woddy?
 
Also, James... can we also conduct a study to determine if DMT is the reason aliens abduct human beings? No, I'm not interested in proving whether or not alien abductions actually occur. I want to know if DMT is the reason they occur!

Come on, this could be big! You have nothing to lose (except perhaps a great deal of time and your sanity)!
 
1. James Randi is not going to do your studies for you-that isn't what he does.
2. Notice what I did in point #1? I spelled "studies" for you. Not "Studys". Not "Studys". Not "STUDYS". And certainly not "Study's".
3. All caps is shouting. Shouting is rude. Please stop shouting.
 
SonOfLaertes said:
Perhaps the dragon was underaged and was just looking for someone to buy him and his buddies a case or two.

I have never ingested the "harder" hallucinogenic drugs; it must be passing strange to see something like a dragon, even if you realize that it is an effect of the drug.

Woddyallen, we cannot encourage or participate in a study that is illegal in nature. You should be able to understand that.
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Yeah i was a bit hunter s thompson like a few years ago, but now that i am going back to collage, i stick with herb.

But yeah that is one of the things about psychadelics, one half of your brain can be saying " hey this bush is sentient and acting like an obnoxious pet" while the other is saying " you just took acid". The problem is if your the type of person who cannot fathom that it is just the drug, ( woo types generally) seriously all kidding aside, do not take them.

Fantasy prone people ( by this i mean people who tend to believe in the paranromal. ) and drugs like acid do not go together at all. I have seen a few bad trips in my time, and each and every one of them was from someone who believed fully in some form of the paranormal, or for a broader stroke, someone who was just, wooish in general. I find people who are more grounded in reality have a much higher ability to shrug off anything bad off as just being the drug.

Where as woos try to look for meaning, or make sense of what is going on, which gets them deeper into thinking its real, which leads to a spiral of chasing down a friend in the middle of a public park at 5 am attempting to convince him that the product her purchased is simply having the desired effect.
 
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