Brexit: Now What? Part IV

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The NFU are being negative
Food is already “rotting in the fields” of East Anglia due to a shortfall of seasonal farm workers – making the vital supply of labour the most urgent issue to address for Brexit policymakers.

That was the message to Norfolk farmers from National Farmers’ Union deputy president Minette Batters as she spoke at the NFU county branch AGM at Easton and Otley College.

She said the NFU’s labour providers survey revealed a 29pc shortfall in seasonal workers for horticulture businesses in September, as the weakness of the pound and uncertainties over Brexit accelerated a trend which had been apparent five years earlier.
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Who would have thought that it would have been a bad idea to vote to leave the EU when your business model relies on cheap seasonal labour from the EU?

Apologies to the farmers who voted Remain.
 
jimbob said:
The NFU are being negative


Who would have thought that it would have been a bad idea to vote to leave the EU when your business model relies on cheap seasonal labour from the EU?

Apologies to the farmers who voted Remain.
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I'm pretty sure it was pointed out before the referendum that some groups who were most in favour of Brexit would suffer the most from it, e.g. farmers and fishermen....
 
GlennB said:
"Government loses vote on publishing Brexit impact assessments", and it seems like it's a binding vote, despite the lack of Tory opposition that has scuppered previous votes.

This could be fun.

Link
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How odd that the government claims releasing these documents would weaken their negotiating position, surely revealing how brilliantly well our economy will do post Brexit will cow the EU into giving us a sweet deal?:rolleyes:
 
jimbob said:
I am starting to wonder if Ceptimus is actually David Davis.
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:D
No, I don't think so. First, Ceptimus is here more often than three days a week. Second, they would have outed themself to stop all the jokes, wouldn't they?
 
"a trend which had been apparent five years earlier."

But still, we can blame it on Brexit now. Typical remain supporter thinking.
 
ceptimus said:
Don't you bother to actually read the posts? See jimbob's post #261
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How would someone know you were referring to Jimbob's post ? :confused:

There are several posts between it and yours, the phrase you quoted isn't contained within the portion of the article in Jimbob's post.

Now that you've (reluctantly) clarified the position, we can see the quote in context from the full article Jimbob linked to.


My apologies, it was contained in Jimbob's quoted piece. So looking at the quote in context....

To underline the need for the re-introduction of a Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme, she said she visited employers including Fenland salad and vegetable growers G’s Group with Great Yarmouth MP and immigration minister Brandon Lewis.

“We knew five years ago that we would be facing a shortfall, but then we had Brexit and that massively exacerbates everything,” said Mrs Batters.
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It's quite clear. They knew that there would be a problem with seasonal workers but the Brexit vote has made it worse. There are a number of reasons for this, uncertainty over immigration status, a fall in wages due to a drop in the value of the pound and increased hostility towards European migrant workers.
 
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ddt said:
:D
No, I don't think so. First, Ceptimus is here more often than three days a week. Second, they would have outed themself to stop all the jokes, wouldn't they?
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Well if Ceptimus were here 4 days a week, those would be the days that David Davis isn't working ;)
 
Suggestions this morning that Theresa has agreed a £50bn+ divorce bill. That'll be about £7bn that Scotland will have to fork out to pay for something two-thirds of the people voted against.

The Will of the People(TM)
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Suggestions this morning that Theresa has agreed a £50bn+ divorce bill. That'll be about £7bn that Scotland will have to fork out to pay for something two-thirds of the people voted against.

The Will of the People(TM)
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It was sadly the "will of the people" - it is the UK that is a member of the EU so the referendum was a UK referendum.

Why you think it is somehow not the "will of the people" because a subset of the UK population voted in a particular way is beyond me.

Indeed you can probably find any kind of breakdown of percentages of leave v. remain you want by arbitrarily deciding to use a subset of the UK population.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Suggestions this morning that Theresa has agreed a £50bn+ divorce bill. That'll be about £7bn that Scotland will have to fork out to pay for something two-thirds of the people voted against.

The Will of the People(TM)
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Your maths in wrong. Pro rata Scotland's share would be only £4.2 billion (England would be £41.9 billion).
 
If Scotland ever actually had to pay their share, they'd doubtless invoke the Barnett formula: English taxpayers would provide about £9 billion to Scotland, and Scotland would then give about half of that to the EU, keeping the rest for themselves. :D
 
This Is what unionists say during a referendum campaign.
The unprecedented agreement was signed after the Record demanded that the leaders clearly explain what they are offering so the Scottish people can decide if it is a better alternative to independence.

The agreement was brokered by former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour.

It will give Scots who remain unsure about separation complete confidence that, if there is a No vote, Scotland will still be given much more control over its future.

“So let us lock in three guarantees that will deliver the best deal for a stronger Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom. The guarantees that we now have pave the way to the future – a great Scotland as a driving, successful and vibrant nation playing its full part in Great Britain.​
Scotland a vibrant nation within the union.

But here is what they say when they are free to express their real beliefs
Darat said:
It was sadly the "will of the people" - it is the UK that is a member of the EU so the referendum was a UK referendum.

Why you think it is somehow not the "will of the people" because a subset of the UK population voted in a particular way is beyond me.

Indeed you can probably find any kind of breakdown of percentages of leave v. remain you want by arbitrarily deciding to use a subset of the UK population.
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Scotland an arbitrary subset of the UK population. The vibrant nation within the union, playing its full part, with control over its future, has completely vanished. If indeed it was ever there, except in the shameless propaganda touted by the unionist parties during the Indyref campaign.
 
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Craig B said:
This Is what unionists say during a referendum campaign.
The unprecedented agreement was signed after the Record demanded that the leaders clearly explain what they are offering so the Scottish people can decide if it is a better alternative to independence.

The agreement was brokered by former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour.

It will give Scots who remain unsure about separation complete confidence that, if there is a No vote, Scotland will still be given much more control over its future.

“So let us lock in three guarantees that will deliver the best deal for a stronger Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom. The guarantees that we now have pave the way to the future – a great Scotland as a driving, successful and vibrant nation playing its full part in Great Britain.​
Scotland a vibrant nation within the union.

But here is what they say when they are free to express their real beliefs Scotland an arbitrary subset of the UK population. The vibrant nation within the union, playing its full part, with control over its future, has completely vanished. If indeed it was ever there, except in the shameless propaganda touted by the unionist parties during the Indyref campaign.
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Yep in terms of a UK referendum using the geographical boundaries of Scotland is an arbitrarily chosen demarcation of voters. Can't see how anyone can disagree with this with that.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Which sums up why Scotland needs it's independence from people who can't even see that people might disagree.
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You can't see that in regards to a UK wide referendum about something that determines the future of the entire UK it is the "will of the people" if a majority of the UK population vote in one particular way?

Really? :jaw-dropp
 
Darat said:
Yep in terms of a UK referendum using the geographical boundaries of Scotland is an arbitrarily chosen demarcation of voters. Can't see how anyone can disagree with this with that.
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People who say the following can disagree with that.
It will give Scots who remain unsure about separation complete confidence that, if there is a No vote, Scotland will still be given much more control over its future.

“So let us lock in three guarantees that will deliver the best deal for a stronger Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom. The guarantees that we now have pave the way to the future – a great Scotland as a driving, successful and vibrant nation playing its full part in Great Britain.​
Because it turns out that in the U.K. Scotland is not anything at all, and its wishes in relation to the union constitution are of no more significance than the wishes of any arbitrarily chosen five million people. But that's not what we were told during the Indyref campaign, is it?

It also proves that if we wish to be anything at all we need to secure the appropriate powers. You have made clear that these are not available to us within the union. So be it.
 
Craig B said:
People who say the following can disagree with that.
It will give Scots who remain unsure about separation complete confidence that, if there is a No vote, Scotland will still be given much more control over its future.

“So let us lock in three guarantees that will deliver the best deal for a stronger Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom. The guarantees that we now have pave the way to the future – a great Scotland as a driving, successful and vibrant nation playing its full part in Great Britain.​
Because it turns out that in the U.K. Scotland is not anything at all, and its wishes in relation to the union constitution are of no more significance than the wishes of any arbitrarily chosen five million people. But that's not what we were told during the Indyref campaign, is it?

It also proves that if we wish to be anything at all we need to secure the appropriate powers. You have made clear that these are not available to us within the union. So be it.
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You seem to be side stepping the actual point.

Someone apparently doesn't think it is the "will of the people" because a UK wide referendum had different results in different parts of the country.

I really cannot see how you can make that claim - no matter what subset of the UK you use - whether that be Scotland, Wales, NI, Birmingham, the NW England, Shetland or any other demarcation, the UK referendum returned leave as a result.

Can you explain how you get to a majority result not being the "will of the people" because in some places more people voted to remain than leave?

If you want to argue that overall less that 50% of the population eligible to vote voted to leave I can understand the point of saying it wasn't the will of the people, even though in the end if you don't bother to vote you really are excluding yourself from being counted.
 
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