Brexit: Now What? Part III

[McHrozni]

I'm astonished how perplexed those in charge are about the UK low productivity, the solution is quite simple, treat your staff as people not work per hour units. It's amazing the difference that can achieve.

Compare Japan and Germany in this way. German productivity per hour worked is about twice that of Japan - even though the two economies roughly share the same strengths (high technology) and weaknesses (aging workforce).

McHrozni

 

[Andy_Ross]

Ford is projecting a reduction of 1,160 workers at its Bridgend base by 2021, according to a leaked document from the company seen by BBC Wales.

Mass meetings are being held at the engine plant on Wednesday afternoon.

The projection, which would leave 600 workers at the site, is based on the assumption that it is unable to bring any new work in.

Prime Minister Theresa May told MPs the UK government had had "dialogue" with Ford about how it could help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-39123982

 

[ceptimus]

You have been on this forum since 2003. By now it should be clear to you that paraphrasing must be announced and not made it look like a quote. This is one major point that is ALWAYS counted agaisnt the poster.

If I want to make something look like a quote, I put it inside the {quote} tags which the forum software helpfully supplies.

 

[The Don]

I have a question about the parliamentary procedure in UK. With Brexit bill, it went something like this:

1. Bill is red and voted on, if it is passed amendments will be discussed.
2. Amendments are discussed and voted on. If they fail, the bill still passes unchanged.

What I find weird about this is that the opposition is not given the option of withdrawing their support for the bill if their favored amendments aren't passed.

Is this normal? Don?

McHrozni

At the end of this BBC article, there's a nice graphical representation of the process:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39123604

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Compare Japan and Germany in this way. German productivity per hour worked is about twice that of Japan - even though the two economies roughly share the same strengths (high technology) and weaknesses (aging workforce).

McHrozni

A lot of the difference is cultural though. Japanese need to be in before the boss and leave after. Long working hours are expected. The work expands to fit the hours and productivity drops.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

IMO they were rare, but not entirely absent.

There was a (tiny ?) minority whose argument for Brexit was that EU membership forced the UK to discriminate against developing countries because the terms for EU migration and terms were so superior to those for non-EU countries. They believed that leaving the EU would allow the UK to give the same advantageous immigration terms to all, or more specifically apply a level playing field so that a doctor/IT specialist/farm worker/unskilled labourer from anywhere in the world would have the same chance of getting a job in the UK as someone from inside the EU.

Many people said something like that but like the points based immigration nonsense the arguments didn't really stack up. Nobody actually seen Ed to seriously propose increased non European immigration other than in the vaguest of terms in very specific cases where they had something to gain from it.

 

[Tolls]

If I want to make something look like a quote, I put it inside the {quote} tags which the forum software helpfully supplies.

So instead you put it in actual quotes...
Nope...it's still called "making **** up".

 

[ceptimus]

Since it troubles you so much I shall endeavour to avoid using quotation marks: "-" in future - even if this makes my posts less readable.

Your indignation is a little strained, I think, when on this occasion I provided the actual quote and the full text of the speech within minutes of my post containing the punctuation marks that you object to so strongly.

 

[Tolls]

You said:

1992 John Major: "The UK leaving the ERM will cause us to suffer for years" (He'd taken us into the ERM, of course).

which has absolutely no hint of being a paraphrase.

You then posted this link:

The full text of John Major's speech.

http://www.johnmajor.co.uk/page1210.html

inside which that above quote simply does not exist. It doesn't even come close.

The actual quote you use does not say anything like the "paraphrase" above.

So excuse us for actually taking you to task over it all. I can see why you're pro-Brexit, since you seem to talk the same bollocks as the politicians etc that backed it.

 

[3point14]

Some people just don't realise that they're supposed to arrive at the conclusion at the end of the thinking process, not at the beginning.

 

[Garrison]

So any forecasts which say Brexit are good are just as faulty. Therefore we can't make an economic case either way. So the case for Brexit is? Other than racism and xenophobia that is?

Even that's a fail, David Davis admitted it will be years before can replace all immigrants in all those low paying jobs Brits won't touch. Government is making a song and dance about changes to permanent residency, but it's smoke and mirrors.

Brexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EU

 

[Garrison]

Ford is projecting a reduction of 1,160 workers at its Bridgend base by 2021, according to a leaked document from the company seen by BBC Wales.

Mass meetings are being held at the engine plant on Wednesday afternoon.

The projection, which would leave 600 workers at the site, is based on the assumption that it is unable to bring any new work in.

Prime Minister Theresa May told MPs the UK government had had "dialogue" with Ford about how it could help.

May: 'So how big a bribe do you want?"

Ford: too busy writing the zeroes to reply...

 

[Garrison]

And the Lords have struck!

Government defeated on Brexit bill

The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.

 

[imodium]

Cue Farage bemoaning unelected peers while his mate runs against his only mp for not electing him to that house.

 

[Castro]

And the Lords have struck!

Government defeated on Brexit bill

The government has been defeated after the House of Lords said ministers should guarantee EU nationals' right to stay in the UK after Brexit.
The vote, by 358 to 256, is the first Parliamentary defeat for the government's Brexit bill.

So what's next? back to the House of Commons?

ETA: Sorry, disregard my question ;-), I found the answer here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/brexit-lords-vote-debate-theresa-may-pmqs-live/

The amended Bill will return to the House of Commons on March 13 and March 14, when MPs will debate whether to keep the changes.

 

[Aepervius]

IMO they were rare, but not entirely absent.

There was a (tiny ?) minority whose argument for Brexit was that EU membership forced the UK to discriminate against developing countries because the terms for EU migration and terms were so superior to those for non-EU countries. They believed that leaving the EU would allow the UK to give the same advantageous immigration terms to all, or more specifically apply a level playing field so that a doctor/IT specialist/farm worker/unskilled labourer from anywhere in the world would have the same chance of getting a job in the UK as someone from inside the EU.

If they were existing, their voice were drowned by the voices of the majority wanting less immigration, period. I can't find such a voice on the net by the way.


ETA: and the campaign were talking about the 330K migration. That is both EU net and non EU net together. Another evidence it was not excluding non EU.
Case in point : Ukip’s “breaking point” poster featuring a column of Syrian refugees.

The figure of 333,000 not only underlined beyond any doubt that Britain had become a country of mass migration but also meant politicians who claimed they could make deep cuts in the numbers while Britain remained in the European Union were simply not believed.

I took the guardian but the 330K figure you see floated around.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...migration-fears-were-paradoxical-but-decisive

330K is both together.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Cue Farage bemoaning unelected peers while his mate runs against his only mp for not electing him to that house.

Farage is too busy trying to get rid of the only UKIP MP to worry about that.

 

[ceptimus]

I count myself amongst those that want a fairer immigration policy - the same rights for immigrants from all countries. This is something that no EU country has. It is effectively prohibited by EU membership. An EU member country could achieve fairness by running an open door immigration policy for the whole world, but of course no country wants to do that.

There is no conflict in wanting to run a fair immigration policy and wanting to reduce the net migration figure - the two policies are independent and in no way mutually exclusive.

 

[Garrison]

I count myself amongst those that want a fairer immigration policy - the same rights for immigrants from all countries. This is something that no EU country has. It is effectively prohibited by EU membership. An EU member country could achieve fairness by running an open door immigration policy for the whole world, but of course no country wants to do that.

There is no conflict in wanting to run a fair immigration policy and wanting to reduce the net migration figure - the two policies are independent and in no way mutually exclusive.

What a shame for you then that government has admitted that immigration from the EU will continue for years to come.

 

[ceptimus]

Why is it a shame for me that I support the idea of a fairer immigration policy?