Brexit: Now What? Part III

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

So you can look at facts like the UK being forced to have asymmetric immigration polices for EU and non-EU countries,

This is not a fact. It is what the UK chooses to do. They could make the non-EU countries equal to the EU if they wanted to. They don't.

You cannot base a decision on known 'net costs' when you don't factor in the 'net benefits' because experts... harumph... just ignore it or something.

This is pure idiocy. And the reason why you keep getting tarred with the racist and xenophobic brush is a complete failure to come up with any other reasons that make any sense or have any logic behind them as the above shows.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Did you read the linked document?

Half the likely EU claim is for:



This is completely separate from the 2016-2020 budget cycle.

And it only makes sense that those who made the commitments pay for them, no? The UK should not be on the hook for commitments agreed after we leave but anything we have signed up to prior to that would seem to be our part of the bill.

Again, compare and contrast with the Scottish Independence question when apparently Scotland HAD to pay for the debt that they had no say in incurring otherwise the financial markets would trash us in perpetuity.

 

[ceptimus]

Got a source for that quote ?

https://www.brugesgroup.com/media-c...jor-and-europe-the-failure-of-a-policy-1990-7

“…all my life I have seen British Governments driven off their virtuous pursuit of low inflation by market problems or political pressures. I was under no illusions when I took Britain into the ERM. I said at the time that membership was no soft option. The soft option, the devaluer’s option, the inflationary option would be a betrayal of our future; and it is not the Government’s policy…All too often in the past the solution was the same —to let the exchange rate go. And every time–sooner or later—the result was the same: rising import prices, rising wages, rising inflation, and a long–term deterioration in Britain’s competitiveness which offset any short–term gain.

And then just six days later, after raising interest rates up to 15%, he was forced into withdrawing from the ERM - after which Britain entered a period of many years of steady growth.

Major's colossal blunder over the ERM was estimated by the UK Treasury (so probably a biassed low estimate) to have cost the British taxpayer £3.4 billion (1990s pounds).

Major's major achievements were Curry and tucking his shirts into his underpants. You'd think that like other discredited politicians of yesteryear he'd have the good grace to just live on his generous state handouts and keep quiet.

Lately we've had Blair, Mandleson, Heseltine, Clarke, and others emerging like slugs from under rotting wood on a damp evening. I expect some pro-EU lobbying team must be paying them to try to derail what the British public have democratically voted for. Still, if these old fossils are the best the remainers can come up with, it doesn't say much for the strength of their argument.

 

[ceptimus]

This is not a fact. It is what the UK chooses to do. They could make the non-EU countries equal to the EU if they wanted to. They don't.

Of course they don't - that would mean having an open door immigration policy for the entire world. Only a complete moron would advocate such a policy.

 

[ceptimus]

The full text of John Major's speech.

http://www.johnmajor.co.uk/page1210.html

 

[The Don]

https://www.brugesgroup.com/media-c...jor-and-europe-the-failure-of-a-policy-1990-7



And then just six days later, after raising interest rates up to 15%, he was forced into withdrawing from the ERM - after which Britain entered a period of many years of steady growth.

Major's colossal blunder over the ERM was estimated by the UK Treasury (so probably a biassed low estimate) to have cost the British taxpayer £3.4 billion (1990s pounds).

Major's major achievements were Curry and tucking his shirts into his underpants. You'd think that like other discredited politicians of yesteryear he'd have the good grace to just live on his generous state handouts and keep quiet.

Lately we've had Blair, Mandleson, Heseltine, Clarke, and others emerging like slugs from under rotting wood on a damp evening. I expect some pro-EU lobbying team must be paying them to try to derail what the British public have democratically voted for. Still, if these old fossils are the best the remainers can come up with, it doesn't say much for the strength of their argument.

Yes, I thought that I hadn't seen the quote before - you made it up

edited to add....

More specifically John Major's comments were far more detailed and nuanced than your made up quote. The last part was particularly interesting:

And every time–sooner or later—the result was the same: rising import prices, rising wages, rising inflation, and a long–term deterioration in Britain’s competitiveness which offset any short–term gain.

British productivity has slipped over that period compared to our European neighbours. Fortunately we've had a ready supply of inexpensive labour to help offset it.

 

[Tolls]

https://www.brugesgroup.com/media-c...jor-and-europe-the-failure-of-a-policy-1990-7

Which isn't the quote you quoted.
It's not even close.

 

[Tolls]

The full text of John Major's speech.

http://www.johnmajor.co.uk/page1210.html

That doesn't help you, you know.

 

[ceptimus]

That doesn't help you, you know.

LOL You've not even had time to read it yet.

 

[ceptimus]

British productivity has slipped over that period compared to our European neighbours.

Cite please.

 

[The Don]

Cite please.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/econ...lcomparisonsofproductivityfinalestimates/2014

Output per hour in the UK was 18 percentage points below the average for the rest of the major G7 advanced economies in 2014, the widest productivity gap since comparable estimates began in 1991.

 

[ceptimus]

But you said in the period since 1992.

Do you have the productivity figures for Britain and its European neighbours from 1992 to compare with the current ones?

 

[The Don]

But you said in the period since 1992.

Do you have the productivity figures for Britain and its European neighbours from 1992 to compare with the current ones?

Is your issue with reading comprehension ?

The G7 includes Germany, France and Italy. The gap now is wider than at any point since 1991, which includes 1992


edited to add...

It's all in the link (including data relating to other, non-G7, countries such as Belgium, Ireland, The Netherlands and Spain)

 

[Tolls]

LOL You've not even had time to read it yet.

I don't have to, beyond skimming it.
1. I remember the speech.
2. I know how to use Ctrl-F.

 

[ceptimus]

Is your issue with reading comprehension ?

The G7 includes Germany, France and Italy. The gap now is wider than at any point since 1991, which includes 1992

I don't see it. Can you explain. We're looking for changes in productivity not absolute levels, for the period 1992 on.

 

[ceptimus]

Yes, I thought that I hadn't seen the quote before - you made it up

Paraphrased is the word you're looking for.

 

[The Don]

I don't see it. Can you explain. We're looking for changes in productivity not absolute levels, for the period 1992 on.

I see you deleted the graph that fundamentally didn't support your post

As the ONS study shows, the gap in productivity between the UK and the G7 (and the other countries) is higher now than at any point since 1991 (which is the earliest date for comparable figures).

I fail to see where the failure to understand is.

 

[The Don]

Paraphrased is the word you're looking for.

Not if you include it in quotes and don't make it clear you're paraphrasing, then its making stuff up - especially when the so-called paraphrasing isn't in any way accurate.

 

[ceptimus]

I see you deleted the graph that fundamentally didn't support your post

Yes. It had all countries pinned to 2007 = 100%

It showed a marked improvement for Britain compared to virtually every other country. Italy did especially badly.

 

[ceptimus]

I see you deleted the graph that fundamentally didn't support your post

As the ONS study shows, the gap in productivity between the UK and the G7 (and the other countries) is higher now than at any point since 1991 (which is the earliest date for comparable figures).

I fail to see where the failure to understand is.

I still don't see it.

I reposted the graph that shows Britain with the greatest increase of productivity between 1997 and 2007.

But your claim was from 1992 to the present - and that Britain did worse than it's neighbours. Can you support it?