Brexit: Now What? Part III

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wobs said:
I got a letter from our MP saying much the same thing. Basically, even though they know its wrong, they still voted for it out of fear of the far right.

A non-binding referendum, whose result will severely damage this country, which could legally be ignored (similar to what Sweden has done in the past), is being enacted due to political pressure. No wonder an MP shouted "Suicide!" after the Commons vote.

MPs voting out of fear. How can that result in anything good?
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Unfortunately my local MP (and colossal tool) would never send me such a letter because he is an enthusiastic supporter of Brexit. His McCawberesque approach to the post-Brexit world is truly worrying....
 
Aepervius said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...d-of-making-it-up-as-he-goes-along-after-cla/

This one is well cited even if it is not the 109 pillows law from brexit the movie, it is also well false.
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We've been over this banana thing before. Boris got it wrong about the 'more than three' - the regulation actually says that bunches of two or three are to be avoided - single bananas are okay, and so are bunches of four or more. The regulations apply to wholesale not retail bananas.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31994R2257:EN:HTML

The bananas must be presented in hands or clusters (parts of hands) of at least four fingers.
Clusters with not more than two missing fingers are allowed, provided that the stalk is not torn but cleanly cut, without damage to the neighbouring fingers.
Not more than one cluster of three fingers with the same characteristics as the other fruit in the package may be present per row.
In the producing regions, bananas may be marketed by the stem.
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Boris should have done his research better but the point he was making was correct - the EU does have ridiculously detailed regulations about most things, bananas included. Even those people working in the affected areas (in this case the wholesale banana trade) don't usually know about or implement the directions - they only serve to bring the EU into disrepute and waste a lot of money paying the idiots who make the regulations and then translate them into all the different languages required. The regulations cause honest traders waste time and money fretting over whether or not they are compliant - or just decide not to trade bananas at all because it's too much hassle. Meanwhile other traders just ignore the regulations and get on with the job so undercutting those traders who try their best to comply with rules and regulations.

The EU itself belatedly admitted that some regulations were over burdensome and repealed them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94

On 29 July 2008, the European Commission held a preliminary vote concerning the repeal of certain regulations related to the quality of specific fruit and vegetables that included provisions related to size and shape. According to the Commission's press release, "In this era of high prices and growing demand, it makes no sense to throw these products away or destroy them." The Agriculture Commissioner stated, "This is a concrete example of our drive to cut red tape and I will continue to push until it goes through. [...] It shouldn't be the EU's job to regulate these things. It is far better to leave it to market operators."
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However, the wholesale regulation about not having bananas in bunches of two or three is still in force.
 
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ceptimus said:
The EU itself belatedly admitted that some regulations were over burdensome and repealed them.
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That is the point of the legislative process. Some of those legislation in fact most were at the behest of industry folk which wanted EU wide standard. They got them. And later when it was shown the the regulation on premium/cat 1/cat 2 fruit and vegetable led to enormous waste, they were withdrawn.

But those regulation are not overly burdensome, they are mostly done at the behest of industry folk (in this case , gross handle industry).

And they apply NOT to end seller, but to gross handler between countries, which is a point you miss. Your street corner fruit guy is safe (*). The #1 importer/exporter out of the UK/France/Germany are not.

That is why this qualify as a lie, because it is utterly misleading when shortened without context.

(*) ETA : as long as he properly report the category , and the country of origin
 
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ceptimus said:
We've been over this banana thing before. Boris got it wrong about the 'more than three' - the regulation actually says that bunches of two or three are to be avoided - single bananas are okay, and so are bunches of four or more. The regulations apply to wholesale not retail bananas.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31994R2257:EN:HTML

Boris should have done his research better but the point he was making was correct - the EU does have ridiculously detailed regulations about most things, bananas included. Even those people working in the affected areas (in this case the wholesale banana trade) don't usually know about or implement the directions - they only serve to bring the EU into disrepute and waste a lot of money paying the idiots who make the regulations and then translate them into all the different languages required. The regulations cause honest traders waste time and money fretting over whether or not they are compliant - or just decide not to trade bananas at all because it's too much hassle. Meanwhile other traders just ignore the regulations and get on with the job so undercutting those traders who try their best to comply with rules and regulations.

The EU itself belatedly admitted that some regulations were over burdensome and repealed them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94

However, the wholesale regulation about not having bananas in bunches of two or three is still in force.
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Can you give an example of an honest fruit trader who has decided to cease trading bananas because of EU regulation or, as I suspect, did you just make that up?
 
Aepervius said:
You may have cited it, but if you read up on the article I cited, you will see that BJ did not such qualification, nor to my knowledge will understand your average person until told explicitly.
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I already said that Boris got mixed up about the detail of the banana regulations and that he or his assistants should have done the research more carefully.

Nevertheless his point was well made - that the EU inflicts unnecessary and over-complex regulations over areas they need not get involved in.

The average person listening to Boris knows full well that they can go to the supermarket and buy bananas in ones, twos, threes, fours and so on. The point that Boris made and that voters agreed with, is that EU regulations are often stupid.
 
ceptimus said:
I already said that Boris got mixed up about the detail of the banana regulations and that he or his assistants should have done the research more carefully.
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Boris has spent years writing this crap about the EU...he knew exactly what he was doing.
 
ceptimus said:
I already said that Boris got mixed up about the detail of the banana regulations and that he or his assistants should have done the research more carefully.

Nevertheless his point was well made - that the EU inflicts unnecessary and over-complex regulations over areas they need not get involved in.

The average person listening to Boris knows full well that they can go to the supermarket and buy bananas in ones, twos, threes, fours and so on. The point that Boris made and that voters agreed with, is that EU regulations are often stupid.
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So why did Boris make such a big thing out of something he knew wasn't true?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
But he did have a big wall manned by thousands of auxiliary infantry and cavelry supported by big forts and military rule.
They weren't trying to keep everybody out, only marauding tribes. If individuals wanting to come in paid the right fee they were welcome.
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I'm sure the Scots will let some people in while keeping out the deplorables.
 
catsmate said:
Certainly when you head over the border to Scotland to actually buy stuff.
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I don't know that we'll be in the Euro as soon as that, and indeed we may not go for it at all. At the moment Scotland is nowhere near fulfilling the convergence criteria and all the rest of it to join the Eurozone so it isn't even on the table.

And since meeting the criteria to join the Euro is entirely voluntary, if we don't want to join we can put it off forever. Just like Sweden and a number of other countries are doing.
 
Aepervius said:
It was not true on the number, and he did not provide a context, because he very well knew if he did it would have much "punch".
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Well, that's perfectly normal politician behaviour. Colour me surprised.

I suppose if you're so upset about Boris making a slight mistake when moaning about unnecessary EU regulations, then you were equally offended whenever Cameron misrepresented how effective his painfully negotiated "EU reforms" would be at reducing EU immigration.
 
ceptimus said:
Well, that's perfectly normal politician behaviour. Colour me surprised.

I suppose if you're so upset about Boris making a slight mistake when moaning about unnecessary EU regulations, then you were equally offended whenever Cameron misrepresented how effective his painfully negotiated "EU reforms" would be at reducing EU immigration.
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Can you quote what Cameron claimed? Or is evidence going to be a step too far again?
 
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