Brexit: Now What? Part III

[The Don]

Exactly!

Of course it's vanishingly unlikely that China will ever become a member, but before Erdoğan's recent excesses Turkey was moving in the direction of joining and Prime Minister Cameron was spending UK taxpayers' money to help Turkey along with the process.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...d-of-risking-national-security-by-helping-fu/

Well that's what the Leave campaign kept claiming, and the Remain campaign kept pointing out the near-insurmountable barriers that Turkey would have to deal with in order to join the EU. Seems like one again, early indications are that the Remain campaign had it right

 

[Darat]

If and when Turkey becomes a full EU member, then Turkish people will have the right of free movement within the EU.

If you think that's a lie, please explain why you do.

"IF"

That's the bit that you seem to want to overlook.

 

[abaddon]

Exactly!

Of course it's vanishingly unlikely that China will ever become a member, but before Erdoğan's recent excesses Turkey was moving in the direction of joining and Prime Minister Cameron was spending UK taxpayers' money to help Turkey along with the process.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...d-of-risking-national-security-by-helping-fu/

If the UK stayed they could block it, once they leave they will have no say in the matter.

If, then, Turkey joins they will have freedom of travel all the way to the UK's borders and we all know how porous those are.

 

[McHrozni]

If, then, Turkey joins they will have freedom of travel all the way to the UK's borders and we all know how porous those are.

The last time I checked the British borders involved unusually wide and deep moats. Maybe Brexitards think sand people don't want to ride on poison water?

McHrozni

 

[ceptimus]

"IF"

That's the bit that you seem to want to overlook.

Starting a sentence with 'if' does not make that sentence a lie. You know that.

There was a good chance that Turkey would eventually join at the time the article you posted was written. Are you denying that? If you are, what do you think were Cameron's motives in providing UK funds to help Turkey in the process towards EU membership?

That Cameron did provide UK funds to Turkey to assist with their moves towards EU membership is undeniable.

 

[ceptimus]

Brexitards

Nice example of what Leave supporters think passes for critical thinking debate.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

There was a good chance that Turkey would eventually join at the time the article you posted was written. Are you denying that?

That's not what the lying article claimed and you know it. They claimed it was imminent. They also omitted the key data that the UK would decide if and when they were to be admitted.

Funny that the usual suspects seem to think that it is impossible for Scotland to join the EU and yet Turkey will be admitted any day now.

It's almost as if they are just making **** up to suit.

 

[ceptimus]

Anyway, despite any of you failing to show that the possibility of Turkey joining the EU was a lie, I'll play along with another Remain lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

House prices have actually risen. I know you'll respond with "we've not triggered article 50 yet", so I challenge you to predict how much you think house prices will fall during 2017 following the March triggering of Article 50.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The last time I checked the British borders involved unusually wide and deep moats.

Not the one between Northern Ireland and the EU. The one that Brexiteers don't like to talk about.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Anyway, despite any of you failing to show that the possibility of Turkey joining the EU was a lie, I'll play along with another Remain lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

House prices have actually risen. I know you'll respond with "we've not triggered article 50 yet", so I challenge you to predict how much you think house prices will fall during 2017 following the March triggering of Article 50.

So you have a lie that even you admit isn't a lie because we haven't left the EU yet?

Incidentally are we supposed to be responding to the headline or the actual claim - they seem to be different.

 

[Rolfe]

If you like fantasy. The first question I would ask the author in this scenario is how Scotland copes with the millions of refugee English that would presumably be seeking asylum in this apocalyptic dream (has someone been reading the book of revelations?)

If you think Brexit case had lies this is the worst sort of case for remain it is so false that it makes me think that if this is best argument remainers have then they have none!

It's overboard on all levels, roughly comparable to what counts as analysis on the Brexitard side.

I agree, it does seem a little downbeat, even for me

It is explicitly presented as a dystopian fantasy. It's certainly not the "best argument remainers have", whatever gave you that idea.

The point is to show that bad things can happen and the possibility of bad things happening is actually real. Many many people within living memory have seen the entirety of their world collapse and we assume it can't happen to us. But it can.

 

[catsmate]

Northern Ireland's no loss any more, and Scotland wouldn't dare - they're dependent on English gold, don't you know. Bought and paid for - there are old songs about it so it must be true.

The Parcel of Rogues are long dead.

 

[Darat]

Starting a sentence with 'if' does not make that sentence a lie. You know that.

There was a good chance that Turkey would eventually join at the time the article you posted was written. Are you denying that? If you are, what do you think were Cameron's motives in providing UK funds to help Turkey in the process towards EU membership?

That Cameron did provide UK funds to Turkey to assist with their moves towards EU membership is undeniable.

Yes I am denying the narrative the Daily express was peddling which was millions of those Turks swarming into the UK. That was a lie then as it is today.

 

[Tolls]

Incidentally are we supposed to be responding to the headline or the actual claim - they seem to be different.

Quite:

The Office for Budget Responsibility predicts a rise of 9.4% over the next two years, meaning the government forecast suggests homes would be worth between 0.6% and 8.6% less in cash terms than they are now.

Since inflation is on the way up, and the recent house price rise is a side effect of the rate drop which itself was done to pump money into the economy, it'll be interesting to see just what happens when the rates start to head upwards.

 

[catsmate]

I don't agree with some of this but it's an analysis that ought to be read.

https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...-brexit-fallout-leave-voters-didnt-see-coming

I suspect the slide will not be as total as predicted in that piece and the rump UK will stabilise at around 1992 Russia levels, though without the long term recovery potential.

 

[catsmate]

Probably the same way the Roman emperor Hadrian used to solve a similar issue back in the day.

McHrozni

And he didn't have concrete, razor wire, electrified fences, land mines, machine guns, biometric identification and implantable RFIDs...

 

[ceptimus]

Yes I am denying the narrative the Daily express was peddling which was millions of those Turks swarming into the UK. That was a lie then as it is today.

The Daily Express didn't say it would happen straight away. It said it could happen if and when Turkey became an EU member. That was, and still is, true.

Since the article was written, it's become much less likely that Turkey will join the EU in the near future. We all agree that's true.

 

[ceptimus]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...obama-brexit-uk-back-of-queue-for-trade-talks

This doesn't qualify as an outright lie, as it's probably what Obama really was intending for the USA to do, should the UK decide to leave the EU. In any case he was just doing it to help out his mate Dave, knowing that he wouldn't be around to actually carry out the threat.

Anyway, it's turned out that it was a false threat, and we're now told that the UK will be at the head of the queue.

 

[Rat]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...obama-brexit-uk-back-of-queue-for-trade-talks

This doesn't qualify as an outright lie, as it's probably what Obama really was intending for the USA to do, should the UK decide to leave the EU. In any case he was just doing it to help out his mate Dave, knowing that he wouldn't be around to actually carry out the threat.

Anyway, it's turned out that it was a false threat, and we're now told that the UK will be at the head of the queue.

We are told this. By Donald Trump. Who has never knowingly told truth.

 

[Strawberry]

We are told this. By Donald Trump. Who has never knowingly told truth.

Donald Trump has never knowingly said that Britain will be at the head of the queue either. Michael Gove said that and Trump responded with "you're doing great." Brexiters have imagined that Trump said what they wanted him to say.

We do know from his inauguration speech that every trade deal will be about America First and he wants people to buy American and hire American.