Brexit: Now What? Part III

[imodium]

appears mucho all of those rape claims farage used were fake.
the pledge to fishermen ain't gonna happen.
there isn't much left of the promises boris, gove and farage made.
no wonder there wasn't anything on the white paper, leave eu join wto, is only four words long.

 

[CapelDodger]

George Osborne has warned he would be forced to introduce an emergency Budget with tax hikes and spending cuts if the UK votes to leave the European Union.

Which he would have been if the existing deficit target stood. Of course it's been let rip instead after he felt the need to resign.

"There are 177 EU regulations about pillows."

 

[CapelDodger]

Sigh. There were admirable upsides to the British Empire.

The way some Brits tell it.

There were lots of horrible downsides to it also.

Agreed.

It matters not a whit. The Empire is long gone, Britannia does not rule the waves, nor has for decades thanks to government evisceration of their defence forces, the UK is not a world power.

You seem to imply that the UK could have afforded to remain a world power after two World Wars. Would they have made India pay for it?

Live with it.

I'm glad I never had to live with an effort to keep the British Empire. The French tried to keep theirs and look where it got them.

I am not even british, but I can see how successive governments in the UK chose to sabotage their own country. The UK could have been a world leader. It chose to decline the opportunity.

The NHS, university education for the masses, no conscription. Not exactly sabotage. And what was lost?

 

[abaddon]

The way some Brits tell it.

Like it or not, there were. That is not to conceal the frankly awful things they did.

You seem to imply that the UK could have afforded to remain a world power after two World Wars. Would they have made India pay for it?

Of course they would if it were even vaguely possible. However, by then the empire had already functionally flung itself apart, so it was useless.

I'm glad I never had to live with an effort to keep the British Empire. The French tried to keep theirs and look where it got them.

Brexit is a direct result of that thinking. Brexit has no effect on foreign migrants from non-EU territories. All of those repulsive brown people will keep on arriving.

The NHS, university education for the masses, no conscription. Not exactly sabotage. And what was lost?

Turing. A man who broke the Nazi codes and was instrumental in winning the war. What was his reward? Trial and conviction for the flaw of being gay, chemical castration, and eventual despairing suicide. Such are the rewards for serving the british former empire.

How nice.

 

[Aepervius]

The people you mention were largely the ones for whom it was self evident that Britain would not vote to leave, and that President Trump could never even be chosen as the Republican candidate, let alone win the presidential race.

In other words they were wrong.

It was self evident to economist because they saw it as a disaster. But they did not count with people being idiot and chasing after 350m a week or pretension that UK does not control its immigration, when as mentioned above and as shown in the graph, the non EU migration also grew, and the UK did nothing to slow it down. Only bad economic time slowed it down.

But more to the point, when I want an advise on polling or who will be elected as president in the US I don't ask an economist, I ask gallup or nate silver. When i want to know the possible effect of stuff like brexit, I don't ask gallup or the people in the street or nate silver, I ask an economist.

So your comparison and contention that it was "the same people" is downright terminally baseless.

But hey since you do not trust the economist or probably any expert, no wonder you can't make a damn difference between polls and economist estimate.

 

[jimbob]

appears mucho all of those rape claims farage used were fake.
the pledge to fishermen ain't gonna happen.
there isn't much left of the promises boris, gove and farage made.
no wonder there wasn't anything on the white paper, leave eu join wto, is only four words long.

The UK fishermen sold their quotas to the Spanish.

There is also the small matter that the quotas are set in an attempt to preserve the stocks, but are quite possibly set too high.

As an aside, that was one reason I am in favour of offshore windfarms. They act as reefs, and also would prevent trawling in their area, so would probably benefit the marine environment and fish stocks.

 

[CapelDodger]

Of course they would if it were even vaguely possible.

Why keep the British Empire?

However, by then the empire had already functionally flung itself apart, so it was useless.

I have no idea what "funcionally flung itself apart" means.

Brexit is a direct result of that thinking. Brexit has no effect on foreign migrants from non-EU territories. All of those repulsive brown people will keep on arriving.

Your point completely escapes me.

Turing.

We lost Turing because we lost the Empire? Homosexuality was illegal during the Empire, and in many places outside it. Homophobia was the norm until quite recent times.

 

[abaddon]

Why keep the British Empire?

No idea. The British ruling class thought it was a great idea. Why? I have no idea. Nobody else did.

I have no idea what "funcionally flung itself apart" means.

When one chooses to commit genocide, one is done. The British empire tried it and they were done.

Your point completely escapes me.

Brexiteers are lost in the illusion that there is any such thing as a british empire anymore. It is long gone.

We lost Turing because we lost the Empire? Homosexuality was illegal during the Empire, and in many places outside it. Homophobia was the norm until quite recent times.

Are you really going to attempt to make the disgusting attempt to excuse how Turing was treated? Really?

 

[Rat]

Brexiteers are lost in the illusion that there is any such thing as a british empire anymore. It is long gone.

I have spoken (online) to more than one brexiteer who is absolutely certain that we can get it all back if we stop the evil EU from preventing it. It's inevitable, apparently. When we put the Great back into Britain. I really hope they aren't representative.

 

[Strawberry]

I have spoken (online) to more than one brexiteer who is absolutely certain that we can get it all back if we stop the evil EU from preventing it. It's inevitable, apparently. When we put the Great back into Britain. I really hope they aren't representative.

How can anyone be that delusional? Not only will the Empire not return, the UK is likely to lose Scotland and Northern Ireland also.

 

[Rat]

How can anyone be that delusional? Not only will the Empire not return, the UK is likely to lose Scotland and Northern Ireland also.

Because Britain is Great. We are better than all of those foreign types. If they are challenged on this, they will invariably fall back on pointing out that all those immigrants want to come here, because we're so Great. Again, I trust that this is not a majority viewpoint, nor indeed, I hope, a very significant minority.

 

[ceptimus]

Where happened to the £350-million a week?

That's the gross figure. For the next two years, at least, we'll still be paying it to the EU.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't agree with some of this but it's an analysis that ought to be read.

https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...-brexit-fallout-leave-voters-didnt-see-coming

 

[Andy_Ross]

No idea. The British ruling class thought it was a great idea. Why? I have no idea. Nobody else did.

When one chooses to commit genocide, one is done. The British empire tried it and they were done.

Brexiteers are lost in the illusion that there is any such thing as a british empire anymore. It is long gone.

Are you really going to attempt to make the disgusting attempt to excuse how Turing was treated? Really?

He was treated no differenty to any other homosexual at the time.
What has it got to do with Brexit?

 

[CapelDodger]

Are you really going to attempt to make the disgusting attempt to excuse how Turing was treated? Really?

Of course not. I'm simply pointing out that it has no connection to the point in hand. Which is, you may recall, your original contention :

I am not even british, but I can see how successive governments in the UK chose to sabotage their own country. The UK could have been a world leader. It chose to decline the opportunity.

The UK did make that choice (eventually; we shouldn't forget Suez), but it wasn't in any sense sabotage. There's nothing we could gain by being a "world power" that would remotely justify the cost.

 

[CapelDodger]

How can anyone be that delusional? Not only will the Empire not return, the UK is likely to lose Scotland and Northern Ireland also.

Northern Ireland's no loss any more, and Scotland wouldn't dare - they're dependent on English gold, don't you know. Bought and paid for - there are old songs about it so it must be true.

 

[CapelDodger]

That's the gross figure. For the next two years, at least, we'll still be paying it to the EU.

Which is not quite encapsulated in "Why don't we give it to the NHS?", I'm sure you'll agree. That implies net, not gross.

Anyway, moving on to the next Remain lie, if you'd be so kind?

 

[CapelDodger]

I don't agree with some of this but it's an analysis that ought to be read.

https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...-brexit-fallout-leave-voters-didnt-see-coming

Stuff will happen, no doubt about that, some of it unexpected. (I doubt Farage saw Irish unification coming out of it, but I'm starting to think it will.) I can't see any of it being good. Particularly bad, I suspect, is the extra inter-generational aggravation, of which there is more than enough already.

What comes across most clearly from the Leave side is their sheer vacuousness. Boris "Basil" Johnson promises us "jumbo trade deals", wtf? We'll have control over our non-EU immigration policy, like we already do. May says we'll be a more global Britain (wtf?) while presenting the two bared arses of Farage and Johnson as our face on the world. It's awful beyond words.

I suppose our only comfort lies in the Remain predictions which have turned out to be porkies. If the number of Leave lies in my locker is anything to go by there are a goodly few to come.

 

[ceptimus]

Anyway, moving on to the next Remain lie, if you'd be so kind?

What is your candidate Leave lie this time?

 

[Darat]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/62...le-EU-migration-Ahmet-Davutoglu-Angela-Merkel