Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[Dave Rogers]

You think the Wehrmacht were innocuous?

No, we think they weren't the SS, which means that the claim that Joseph Juncker was in the SS is false.

However, you don't get to be an officer in the Wehrmacht without being a National Socialist zealot.

I'm absolutely certain that's not true. Many high-ranking Wermacht officers disagreed with Hitler but felt bound by the terms of their oaths to obey him. But in any case, where's the evidence that Joseph Juncker was an officer in the Wermacht? And if he wasn't, is it possible even to see the original position of the goalposts from where they've now moved to?

Dave

 

[catsmate]

The people who have moved are mostly financial services and banking. Manufacturing has long been outsourced to cheap labour & materials China, India, Bangladesh and Pakistan. It's easy enough to move back. Just hire offices at Canary Wharf. No big deal.

You really have no idea of the complexity of modern business have you?

 

[Pixel42]

Found this Brexit parody of Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds elsewhere, and was impressed by how little tweaking it needed:

Brexiters:

Take a look around you
at the world we've come to know
Does it seem to be much more
than a crazy circus show
But maybe from the madness
something beautiful will grow
In a brave new world
With just a handful of men
We'll start all over again

Remainers:

In the cellar was a withdrawal agreement that was scarcely ten pages long. It had taken him two years. I could have written as much in a day. And I suddenly had my first inkling of the gulf between his dreams and his powers...

 

[ponderingturtle]

What I find objectionable is that the EU demands payment, in order to get a free trade agreement, while this free trade agreement costs nothing to the EU,

Yes they are demanding that you settle your bill before you can leave the club and will not allow any access to the club without a settled bill. Why is this concept so objectionable? I didn't think britons were like trumps and never paid their debts.

 

[catsmate]

May has stated time and time again that a new referendum is off the table.
You seem to be a little unaware of the realities of the situation in the UK.

She's spouted a lot of crap, no-one pays her much attention.

 

[angrysoba]

The UK is leaving the EEA on its own volition. It is not getting kicked out. I also notice that you are dodging a lot of questions. No offense meant but you don't seem to have the necessary background knowledge to participate in this discussion.

Which was no barrier to voting in the referendum.

But seriously, we shouldn’t be telling people not to participate in discussions like this. It’s far better to correct misleading information as you did at the beginning of your post.

 

[catsmate]

Actually, there is no need to administer free trade (it is just the simplest way of trading). Free trade means that there is no tariff, so you actually save on customs management costs when trade becomes free. Of course, there are some rules and standards in economic activity, but this can be managed in each country (with cooperation, which is of course always desirable, as widely as possible).

And I maintain that the EU can actually be considered (in some areas) as a criminal organization, involved in the dirty business of persecuting and even perhaps torturing people (see for example: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/...hansk-people-s-republic-to-sanctions-list/pdf ).

I (strongly) suspect the EU of plotting to impose unnecessary tariffs to the UK once it leaves the Union, which it has every right to do, even if this backfires terribly on its own (European) economy.

A staggeringly ignorant and ill-informed comment, amongst many others.

 

[catsmate]

Would this be within a strong group who have said that they're going to support them and ably agree to a deal that's acceptable to Ireland?

Indeed. With some feasting on the corpse of the UK economy.

 

[Wudang]

Good grief. Even LeaveHQ had a better grasp of how the common market worked.
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

With or without tariff issues being resolved ,  which are actually irrelevant to the access issue , the claim is false. Tariffs do not prevent access to a market. They simply impose a tax on entry. The actual barrier is the regulatory conformity,  what is known generally as a non-tariff barrier (NTB) or, sometimes, as technical barrier to trade (TBT).

 

[Mongrel]

Yes they are demanding that you settle your bill before you can leave the club and will not allow any access to the club without a settled bill. Why is this concept so objectionable? I didn't think britons were like trumps and never paid their debts.

Alternatively, it's like moaning that you have to purchase a membership before being allowed to shop at Costco.

 

[Degeneve]

You think the Wehrmacht were innocuous?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_the_Wehrmacht

Sure, there was conscription and there were many deserters. However, you don't get to be an officer in the Wehrmacht without being a National Socialist zealot.

You're confusing Waffen SS and Wehrmacht again.

Fair enough, Juncker's father want to play down any role he might have had with the 'just obeying orders' line (born 1924, he would have been quite young).

Whilst of course we should forgive, we should not forget.

BTW, I am still waiting for an undisputable evidence that Juncker's father was an officer in the Wehrmacht.

 

[GlennB]

You're confusing Waffen SS and Wehrmacht again.

Must be, as Wehrmacht is just the equivalent of 'armed forces'.

 

[Wudang]

Must be, as Wehrmacht is just the equivalent of 'armed forces'.

You hear people refer to the Wehrmacht when they mean Wehrmacht Heer (or army). However the Waffen SS were a parallel organization to the Wehrmacht though sometimes Waffen SS units were placed under the operational control of the army.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Should they get kicked out of the European Economic Area because of that? I don't think so, so perhaps Europe should try to be a little more flexible with the British.

They are getting 'kicked out' because they demanded to leave.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Should they get kicked out of the European Economic Area because of that?

The EEA observes the same rules as the EU on free movement of people, which seems to be one of the main things the Brixiteers object to. I'm not aware that he UK has at any time expressed any official wish to remain in the EEA, so "kicked out" is not an accurate way to represent the UK's projected status with regard to the EEA.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

May has stated time and time again that a new referendum is off the table.

She's spouted a lot of crap, no-one pays her much attention.

And she's gone back on quite a few other things that seemed to be red lines.

I understand her point that demanding we have a new referendum shows at best a lack of respect for the will of the British people, and looks like saying "I'm going to keep on asking till I get the answer I want." But there's a simple enough solution to that: we need a referendum where the question is "Should there be another referendum on whether, and under what terms, the UK should leave the EU?" That way, if the answer is "Yes," then a new referendum is not disrespecting, but respecting, the will of the people; and if the answer is "No," then we'll have spent a shedload of time and money to be precisely no better or worse off than before we spent it - which is, in the light of all the time and money that's been spent on Brexit so far to leave us a great deal worse off than we were before, practically tantamount to a win.

Dave

 

[ponderingturtle]

The EEA observes the same rules as the EU on free movement of people, which seems to be one of the main things the Brixiteers object to. I'm not aware that he UK has at any time expressed any official wish to remain in the EEA, so "kicked out" is not an accurate way to represent the UK's projected status with regard to the EEA.

Dave

But this is britain, they shouldn't have to obey an organizations rules to remain a member!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Found this Brexit parody of Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds elsewhere, and was impressed by how little tweaking it needed:

Brexiters:

Take a look around you
at the world we've come to know
Does it seem to be much more
than a crazy circus show
But maybe from the madness
something beautiful will grow
In a brave new world
With just a handful of men
We'll start all over again

Remainers:

In the cellar was a withdrawal agreement that was scarcely ten pages long. It had taken him two years. I could have written as much in a day. And I suddenly had my first inkling of the gulf between his dreams and his powers...

That's the first thing about Brexit to make me happy! Thank you!

 

[ponderingturtle]

I understand her point that demanding we have a new referendum shows at best a lack of respect for the will of the British people, and looks like saying "I'm going to keep on asking till I get the answer I want."

You could certainly spin it as choosing from the available options now that they are concrete and not the nebulous have cake after eating cake of the original leave campaign.

That could likely be spun as a flawed original information presented and these are now the three hard options to choose from.

 

[Lothian]

You can all relax. Pig head Dave is back on the case.