Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[Dave Rogers]

I mean, she is trying to reach a compromise solution, "half in, half out"? Isn't this exactly what many British people want?

I'm coming to think most people either want to stay in, because it won't actually mean anyone is worse off, or want to crash out in as destructive a way as possible, so that everyone is worse off, we can blame the EU, Jacob Rees-Mogg gets even richer and Boris Johnson still can't persuade anyone to make him Prime Minister. Half in and half out appears, at the moment, to be what only one British person wants.

Perhaps the current difficulties would be solved if the EU could promise that the Irish backstop will last no longer than five years (unless the UK agrees to a renewal).

Putting a time limit on the backstop would negate its entire purpose. Plus, the EU has no reason and no inclination to offer the UK any more concessions.

Dave

 

[Vixen]

Russia?

Arguing with Leavers on the BBC News site (futile, I know, but everyone should have a hobby) does show many tend to slip into WW2-mode thinking where our friends become our enemies. At least they don't make the extra leap to thinking Russia is our ally, but their gut feeling that the EU is akin to German-occupied Europe and out to defeat us is remarkable.

I can understand the WW2 thinking mode, as it is still within living memory for the older generation who lived through the forties. There is a perception of being pushed around by the much larger nation, population wise, Germany. Families still bear grudges about the trials and tribulation brought on them by German aggression and expansionism. I don't think Brits have ever seen Russia as allies. That was a strategic FD Roosevelt thing to overcome the Bosh.

Strangely though, OTOH Brits have far more in common with German culture and language than that of the Slavic Russians. Call it Churchill-style stubborness or whatever, but I don't blame Brits for their scepticism of Merkel and co.

 

[Worm]

I notice there were about a hundred MEPs that voted against the deal. Are most of them from the UK?

I don't know.

Quick follow up on this.

Short answer: no.

Longer answer:

There were actually two votes, and I'm not sure of the difference between them. The results were very similar so it probably doesn't make a huge difference. These numbers are form the first vote.

There were 474 votes FOR and 152 AGAINST the resolution.

Of the 152, the largest blocs were from France and Germany, with the UK in third place. Of course, Germany has the most MEPs so that is not unexpected.

Germany make up 13% of all MEPs, and were responsible for 14% of the votes against - not really an issue. The UK makes up 10% of MEPs, and was responsible for 13% of the votes against - a bit of a shift, but not huge when numbers are quite small.

The big shift really was France - they make up 10% of all MEPs, but were responsible for 22% of the against votes. Over 50% of their MEPs voted against.

Austria and Belgium also had significant proportions against, but they have few MEPs so the numbers were quite small.

 

[Vixen]

Perhaps the difficulties would be solved if the hard-Brexiteers start acting like adults... and not like spoiled 3-year olds?

They had the opportunity these past 2 years to come up with realistic proposals, to guide and shape the WA and the subsequent future relationship. Instead they've been busy with nothing constructive... a bit of nay-saying, a bit of backstabbing and that's about it. They shy away from taking any responsibility and in the rare occassions where they do take responsibility they completely muck it up.

And we're supposed to appease that lot? Trust them to negotiate and act in good faith during the implementation phase?

For the first time ever, I found myself nodding my head in agreement with Rees-Mogg when he said May should pay a visit to the Queen and resign.

I am a remainer. OTOH I don't think sitting on the fence works. We should be either in or out: 100%, not 50-50 or 60-40, or 10-90. Labour's solution of leaving but remaining in the customs union, means we take instructions but have no representation in the European Parliament. How does that work?

Good on Rees-Mogg having the backbone to speak up.

 

[Vixen]

From the GRAUNIAD:

The European commission has confirmed that British citizens will have to pay to visit mainland Europe as soon as the EU’s free movement laws no longer apply.

A spokeswoman for Jean-Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, said that, post-Brexit, visitors from Britain will have to fill out an online form and pay €7 (£6) for a visa waiver, which will be valid for three years.

“Yes #ETIAS will apply to the #UK as 3rd country post-Brexit - 7 euros for a 3 year pre-travel authorisation,” Natasha Berthaud tweeted. “Simple form, like #ESTAS to the US, but way cheaper.”

Hmmm.

 

[Tolls]

Rees-Mogg is an arse who can't accept that he has failed in his coup attempt...for the second time in a month.

The last thing we need is a leadership election.

He only wants it so it increases the odds of us crashing out by chewing up the time between now and the end of March.

Did I mention he's an arse?

 

[Vixen]

Rees-Mogg is an arse who can't accept that he has failed in his coup attempt...for the second time in a month.

The last thing we need is a leadership election.

He only wants it so it increases the odds of us crashing out by chewing up the time between now and the end of March.

Did I mention he's an arse?

At least he is clear on where he stands. I can't stand all those fakes and phonies like Gove, Leadsom and co., who claim to back the PM, yet stab her in the back secretively. People who change their opinion depending on which way the wind's blowing. Rather like the office creep half way up the boss' backside.

 

[Tolls]

Woohoo, he's clear where he stands.

But I am not going to give him credit for clearly standing in the arse corner.

 

[Dave Rogers]

It's a bit like the old Alexei Sayle comment about people who say you knew where you were with Thatcher. "You were ******, that's where you were."

Dave

 

[Amazer]

At least he is clear on where he stands. I can't stand all those fakes and phonies like Gove, Leadsom and co., who claim to back the PM, yet stab her in the back secretively. People who change their opinion depending on which way the wind's blowing. Rather like the office creep half way up the boss' backside.

You have no idea where he stands... you just know where he wants to go... but he'll never give you a detailed roadmap on how he plans to get there... nor does he have the courage to actually get in the drivers seat and go to where he wants to go. He's pretty content to do his complaining from the sidelines... without having the wherewithal or even desire to take any responsibility.

 

[angrysoba]

At least he is clear on where he stands.

So was Hitler! Yes, Hitler! And Genghis Khan. And Pol Pot.

Jacob Rees Mogg is nowhere near as evil as them, but being clear where you stand is no virtue if you stand for something ridiculous.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

but I don't blame Brits for their scepticism of Merkel and co.

You don't blame them for having an irrational dislike of an entire nation that has been nothing but friendly for 70-odd years and yet, like battered wives, continue to re-elect a Tory Party that makes their lives worse every second of every day because they continually believe that 'this time will be different'?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Reports from Brussels that TM's visit has had a great effect. She's made things even worse, and had a square go with Juncker because he called her 'nebulous'

Smashing stuff.

 

[The Moog]

At least he is clear on where he stands. I can't stand all those fakes and phonies like Gove, Leadsom and co., who claim to back the PM, yet stab her in the back secretively. People who change their opinion depending on which way the wind's blowing. Rather like the office creep half way up the boss' backside.

He stands for his own personal profit and power.
Screw the rest of the country.

 

[Mid]

Reports from Brussels that TM's visit has had a great effect. She's made things even worse, and had a square go with Juncker because he called her 'nebulous'

Smashing stuff.

Still could have been worse Boris Johnson could still be foreign secretary and they could have sent him

 

[angrysoba]

Still could have been worse Boris Johnson could still be foreign secretary and they could have sent him

At least they'd know where we stand, and we'd know where they stand.

"Okay, now listen up you Eurotossers...!"
"There's the door..."
"Ho ho, I can make a swift Brexit."
"Please do, goodbye!"

 

[Wildy]

You have no idea where he stands... you just know where he wants to go... but he'll never give you a detailed roadmap on how he plans to get there... nor does he have the courage to actually get in the drivers seat and go to where he wants to go. He's pretty content to do his complaining from the sidelines... without having the wherewithal or even desire to take any responsibility.

I think that has to do more with Rees-Mogg trying to give himself "plausible deniability" when the UK crashes out with no deal and he makes bank by shorting the markets. If he does it through direct action then he won't have a leg to stand on at all. By doing it this way, by complaining from the sidelines, he can at least try to argue that "it's not his fault" despite the fact he's the fact of the largest bloc of Tories who oppose any sort of deal at all.

 

[Vixen]

So was Hitler! Yes, Hitler! And Genghis Khan. And Pol Pot.

Jacob Rees Mogg is nowhere near as evil as them, but being clear where you stand is no virtue if you stand for something ridiculous.

I declare Godwin invoked.

 

[Vixen]

You don't blame them for having an irrational dislike of an entire nation that has been nothing but friendly for 70-odd years and yet, like battered wives, continue to re-elect a Tory Party that makes their lives worse every second of every day because they continually believe that 'this time will be different'?

How bright was it giving the plebiscite a say in a referendum? Of course they are going to vote Leave. They are too stupid, xenophobic and ignorant to have an informed opinion. What drives them is seeing the Polish shop in the high street instead of Greggs.

What was Cameron thinking..?

 

[Vixen]

Reports from Brussels that TM's visit has had a great effect. She's made things even worse, and had a square go with Juncker because he called her 'nebulous'

Smashing stuff.

Hahahahaha. That was a classic case of the application of franglais. What Juncker actually said was 'les agreements nebulouses' and all she heard was 'nebulous'. ''You're calling me nebulous?'

Juncker: 'What are you on about, dear? I didn't know les ros-boeufs parler le francais'.

<Thwack!> Take that!