Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[angrysoba]

The real problem is that some in Great Britian just do not want to accept that Great Britian is a part of Europe.

Well the debate is about membership of the European Union, not geographical proximity to the continent.

 

[Hungry81]

Not sure this is 'disruption' from Brexit or 'uncertainty'- it looks fairly straightforward case that European approval work has to be done in Europe and not some backwater 3rd country that thinks it is important. This is what was intended for Brexit.

#winning. Maybe they can negotiate getting help from Trump to bring back jobs in the Coal mines.

 

[Vixen]

I was talking to a Swedish ex-pat who has lived in the US for 20-30 years. He thinks Sweden should follow the UK.

I asked why and his main sticking point was that the EU had required driver's licenses to expire if you haven't lived in the country of issuance for ten years. I was stunned. Who cares about having a drivers license in a country you haven't lived in for over ten years? You can still drive when you visit. You can get a new license if you eventually return for a longer period. It just seemed like such a minor thing, but he thought it was worth it to send the economy into the dirt for 5 years just to fix that sort of thing. That was his estimate, 5 year downturn.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think Russia is dismantling the EU via social media.

Swedes drive like maniacs anyway so it's a small mercy one more is off the road <fx g d r>

 

[Vixen]

Maybe one thing this VONC did achieve is to show just how badly May would have lost the vote on her deal. Apparently even among supporters some of her MPs said they were against the deal and she ended up with 117 votes against her. If you combine that with the rest of the HoC then it shows just how humiliating the defeat would have been.

They can’t vote for the deal, “no deal” is unthinkable and “no Brexit” or referendum is politically unthinkable for MPs, the opposition won’t call a vote of no confidence in the House. The situation is insanely intractable.

When Thatcher had a VONC she received 104 votes against and resigned. May got 117 votes against and vows to carry on to 2022.

 

[Vixen]

Even if sanity prevails, and we do cancel Brexit. I wonder how much we will lose anyway through moves that have already taken place or at least signed off, agencies that have moved and future moves to hedge against the possibility we decide to go through this national exercise in self harm again at some point in the future.

The people who have moved are mostly financial services and banking. Manufacturing has long been outsourced to cheap labour & materials China, India, Bangladesh and Pakistan. It's easy enough to move back. Just hire offices at Canary Wharf. No big deal.

 

[Vixen]

Almost as much as we'll have lost in international credibility.

None of those that have moved will come back after the cancellation of the madness.

They are mostly MNC's anyway. Had a message from Google today saying they are moving their financing from Switzerland to Ireland. I guess it's tax avoidance rather than any sense of loyalty or concern over 'credibility'.

I think 'British' still has some cachet.

 

[Vixen]

Further, now that the ICJ has ruled that a country can unilaterally cancel article 50, it will be another tool for the remainers to try and use whenever it is too their advantage. The fact it can just be stopped means they know they can get away with it.

The UK is a democracy. It would have to go through Parliament first in the form of a White Paper, the preliminary to a Bill, leading to an Act of Parliament.

 

[Vixen]

The German Bundestag has voted to confirm that the WA cannot be renegotiated. TM's visit to Merkel obviously did the trick!

Who won the war anyway?

 

[Vixen]

The real problem is that some in Great Britian just do not want to accept that Great Britian is a part of Europe.

What? There is no such continent as Europe. Europe is actually the western part of a continent called Eurasia. The UK is western, but it has never really seen itself as continental.

 

[Vixen]

This is worse than when my friend from India tried to teach me the rules of cricket. Too many new terms.

Time to get up to speed. Play up,play up and play the game, if you want to understand the psyche of the Brit.

 

[angrysoba]

When Thatcher had a VONC she received 104 votes against and resigned. May got 117 votes against and vows to carry on to 2022.

More metal than the Iron Lady!

 

[Michel H]

When Thatcher had a VONC she received 104 votes against and resigned. May got 117 votes against and vows to carry on to 2022.

But, are you sure the UK would be better off with May out?

I mean, she is trying to reach a compromise solution, "half in, half out"? Isn't this exactly what many British people want?

Perhaps the current difficulties would be solved if the EU could promise that the Irish backstop will last no longer than five years (unless the UK agrees to a renewal).

 

[Strawberry]

But, are you sure the UK would be better off with May out?

I mean, she is trying to reach a compromise solution, "half in, half out"? Isn't this exactly what many British people want?

Perhaps the current difficulties would be solved if the EU could promise that the Irish backstop will last no longer than five years (unless the UK agrees to a renewal).

The Irish government wouldn't agree to that. A time limited backstop is not a backstop.

It also wouldn't solve the problem, if you listen to what the MPs opposed to the deal are saying, the backstop is only one of their issues.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

But, are you sure the UK would be better off with May out?

I mean, she is trying to reach a compromise solution, "half in, half out"? Isn't this exactly what many British people want?

Perhaps the current difficulties would be solved if the EU could promise that the Irish backstop will last no longer than five years (unless the UK agrees to a renewal).

Why would the EU throw Ireland under the bus because the UK can't get its act together?
This mess is neither the EU's nor Ireland's fault, so the problems caused should be solved by the one causing them.
Unless of course by renegotiating the backstop you mean the Northern Ireland should be in a different tax zone from the rest of the UK.

 

[Amazer]

Perhaps the current difficulties would be solved if the EU could promise that the Irish backstop will last no longer than five years (unless the UK agrees to a renewal).

Perhaps the difficulties would be solved if the hard-Brexiteers start acting like adults... and not like spoiled 3-year olds?

They had the opportunity these past 2 years to come up with realistic proposals, to guide and shape the WA and the subsequent future relationship. Instead they've been busy with nothing constructive... a bit of nay-saying, a bit of backstabbing and that's about it. They shy away from taking any responsibility and in the rare occassions where they do take responsibility they completely muck it up.

And we're supposed to appease that lot? Trust them to negotiate and act in good faith during the implementation phase?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Who won the war anyway?

Russia?

Arguing with Leavers on the BBC News site (futile, I know, but everyone should have a hobby) does show many tend to slip into WW2-mode thinking where our friends become our enemies. At least they don't make the extra leap to thinking Russia is our ally, but their gut feeling that the EU is akin to German-occupied Europe and out to defeat us is remarkable.

 

[Tolls]

When Thatcher had a VONC she received 104 votes against and resigned. May got 117 votes against and vows to carry on to 2022.

Not really comparable.
Very different rules in place, as it wasn't a VONC.
Thatcher resigned because the second ballot (which had to happen because she didn't beat Heseltine by the requisite margin) was likely to see her beaten anyway.

Remeber, she was all set to "fight on and fight to win" before several cabinet members convinced her otherwise.

 

[Wudang]

This is worse than when my friend from India tried to teach me the rules of cricket. Too many new terms.

And did you then proceed to argue with him about how cricket should be played?

 

[3point14]

Can we just remind ourselves of the ridiculousness of the political conversation that's going on given that the entirety of one side of the argument was built on lies:

https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/


The bait and switch by leave and, apparently the entire UK press corps, is just astonishing in it's effectiveness.


ETA:

We were pitched a unicorn.

We've established that unicorns don't exist

We're still debating if we should buy the unicorn or not.


It's madness.

 

[Vixen]

But, are you sure the UK would be better off with May out?

I mean, she is trying to reach a compromise solution, "half in, half out"? Isn't this exactly what many British people want?

Perhaps the current difficulties would be solved if the EU could promise that the Irish backstop will last no longer than five years (unless the UK agrees to a renewal).

I think so. She is not a team player. This is HER Brexit, with no consultation across the house and even her own Brexit Secretaries were stonewalled.

It is one big ego trip for her.

She is cold and callous, and has impoverised hundreds of thousands of people without a care.

Five years is a short time in history. Why would the EU agree to any concession that is not in their best interest and makes an exception for one country which has left it?