Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[ponderingturtle]

Brexit won't result in the outcome that I want.

I voted for Brexit as a protest vote. Lots of the Brexit campaign made me mad, including the bus slogan and just about everything Nigel Farage ever said and the fact that that I was voting the same was as the BNP and their ilk.

And you got what you wanted.

If I could go back and do things over I'd probably not have voted at all, but, ultimately my one single vote made sod all difference to the outcome.

Yep democracy just doesn't work.

 

[Vixen]

Over 400 mps voted to invoke article 50, that's not the sort of thing that can be overturned so easily. Now were the result closer to a 55/45 split that would have been a different matter.

The horse has bolted on this one, and people are in the bargaining stage of depression.

It can be on the grounds of dishonesty. In the original 2016 document, there is ZERO mention of leaving the Customs Union or the European Court of Justice.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ean-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

In addition, what was the role of known Russian-backed Cambridge Analytica, who conducted an illegal campaign, accessing people's FB friends networks to urge people to vote Leave. Not to mention Aarron Banks and his extra £6m, together with the £100K advanced to DUP to circumvent mainland prohibitions.

The marginal win of circa 4% of those who voted might be accounted for by all this unethical, illicit back channel lobbying of an unwary public.

There is a reason for Electoral laws and protocols. One of them being a foreign power cannot have influence over the UK's elections and referendums.

 

[Worm]

Reports that Theresa May has cancelled the vote scheduled for tomorrow, presumably because she hasn't been able to secure enough support.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Reports that Theresa May has cancelled the vote scheduled for tomorrow, presumably because she hasn't been able to secure enough support.

I did wonder if she might try to rather than suffer the defeat but that leaves us literally nowhere in terms of.moving things forward.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Over 400 mps voted to invoke article 50, that's not the sort of thing that can be overturned so easily.

If more than half the House decided it was in their interests it would be overturned very easily. Were you not paying attention last week? The Cabinet and Parliament played a game of chicken, and Parliament won. Parliament can do anything it wants; that's the foundation stone of the British constitution.

Dave

 

[NWO Sentryman]

If more than half the House decided it was in their interests it would be overturned very easily. Were you not paying attention last week? The Cabinet and Parliament played a game of chicken, and Parliament won. Parliament can do anything it wants; that's the foundation stone of the British constitution.

Dave

There's the difference between De Jure and De Facto. Cancelling A50 would be one hell of a Death Warrant for a lot of MPs careers come the next election, and arguably WORSE than the Lib Dems tuition fees.

 

[Vixen]

Reports that Theresa May has cancelled the vote scheduled for tomorrow, presumably because she hasn't been able to secure enough support.

It would have been a humiliating three-figure defeat. However, she is only prolonging the agony.

It is Laura Kuenssburg reporting the postponement. She has insider knowledge and close links with all the major politicians. She says she has been informed by two cabinet members it has been postponed.

 

[Dave Rogers]

There's the difference between De Jure and De Facto. Cancelling A50 would be one hell of a Death Warrant for a lot of MPs careers come the next election, and arguably WORSE than the Lib Dems tuition fees.

Agreed, but some of them may think a no-deal Brexit would be even worse. They may all come to see a second referendum as the only non-suicidal career option.

Dave

 

[ponderingturtle]

Protest against what?

The nonsense that was the leave campaign of course.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The latest cunning plan to get a good Brexit deal, courtesy of Pritti Patel - threaten to starve the Irish.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/

She must think she's living in 1840. A little lesson in the realities of 2018 for her....



https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/

Ireland will have access to all the food not going to the UK as well. It might make shipping less convenient but not insurmountable.

 

[Degeneve]

It can be on the grounds of dishonesty. In the original 2016 document, there is ZERO mention of leaving the Customs Union or the European Court of Justice.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ean-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

This was so obvious that the Government didn't apparently bother to mention it.

Maybe they should have clearly stated it and the consequences of leaving the Customs Union instead, in order to help people to understand what kind of disaster would occur.

Although I am still not sure this would have been enough to convince people.

 

[Worm]

Tweet from Andrea Leadsom (Commons Leader):

There will be three Government oral statements in the @HouseofCommons today:

1 - Theresa May: Exiting the EU
2 - Andrea Leadsom: Business Statement
3 - Stephen Barclay: EU Exit - Article 50

Suggestions that this means there may be a Plan B.

 

[Degeneve]

There's the difference between De Jure and De Facto. Cancelling A50 would be one hell of a Death Warrant for a lot of MPs careers come the next election, and arguably WORSE than the Lib Dems tuition fees.

Sometime for a MP it is better to place the interest of the country ahead of the interest of his/her own career. But for doing that you need to have guts.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

There's the difference between De Jure and De Facto. Cancelling A50 would be one hell of a Death Warrant for a lot of MPs careers come the next election, and arguably WORSE than the Lib Dems tuition fees.

Would it?

in any csse it may be the only realistic option available

 

[fagin]

Tweet from Andrea Leadsom (Commons Leader):

There will be three Government oral statements in the @HouseofCommons today:

1 - Theresa May: Exiting the EU
2 - Andrea Leadsom: Business Statement
3 - Stephen Barclay: EU Exit - Article 50

Suggestions that this means there may be a Plan B.

More like Plan 9 from Outer space.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Sometime for a MP it is better to place the interest of the country ahead of the interest of his/her own career. But for doing that you need to have guts.

Or rather, after doing that you need to find a new career.

People start in politics to make a difference, but they rise in politics by wanting to rise in politics. Parliament voting to withdraw Article 50 would be career suicide for many, and even voting to ask the country to vote on it would be toxic for some.

Parliament has a Remain majority, but their hand is stayed by how the voters will react. Everything Theresa May has done is aimed at preventing Brexit from destroying the Tory party. Whatever Brexit turns out to be is a secondary concern.

 

[Wudang]

“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.”

― George Orwell, 1984

 

[angrysoba]

ECJ ruling confirms that Article 50 can be withdrawn unilaterally. This surely should become the fallback position now if the deal cannot get through Parliament.

Hooray!!!

In a sane country, yes.

Wouldn't that require parliament to rescind a previous Act, where the Brexit date was entered as a matter of law? Otherwise a hard Brexit is, and will continue to be the default fallback position.

No deal Brexit and chaos at the border is what we will get.

There's the difference between De Jure and De Facto. Cancelling A50 would be one hell of a Death Warrant for a lot of MPs careers come the next election, and arguably WORSE than the Lib Dems tuition fees.

Sometime for a MP it is better to place the interest of the country ahead of the interest of his/her own career. But for doing that you need to have guts.

Or rather, after doing that you need to find a new career.

People start in politics to make a difference, but they rise in politics by wanting to rise in politics. Parliament voting to withdraw Article 50 would be career suicide for many, and even voting to ask the country to vote on it would be toxic for some.

Parliament has a Remain majority, but their hand is stayed by how the voters will react. Everything Theresa May has done is aimed at preventing Brexit from destroying the Tory party. Whatever Brexit turns out to be is a secondary concern.

Oh balls!

 

[Vixen]

Tweet from Andrea Leadsom (Commons Leader):

There will be three Government oral statements in the @HouseofCommons today:

1 - Theresa May: Exiting the EU
2 - Andrea Leadsom: Business Statement
3 - Stephen Barclay: EU Exit - Article 50

Suggestions that this means there may be a Plan B.

My predictions:

1. Theresa May will confirm, 'Brexit means Brexit'
2. Andrea Leadsom will repeat anything May says.
3. Brown Nose Barclay will announce that the ECJ ruling on Article 50 is 'irrelevant' and 'now let's just get on with it' and 'enough is enough'.

 

[Vixen]

Agreed, but some of them may think a no-deal Brexit would be even worse. They may all come to see a second referendum as the only non-suicidal career option.

Dave

There is no chance of a 'no deal Brexit'. Parliament would not allow it.