Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[Ambrosia]

Are you suggesting that your vote was
unique, and that nobody else voted for BREXIT as a protest vote?

No.

It would have not taken too many voters to do what you did to change the result.

Polls were showing 60/40 in favour of remain on polling day, which would have taken more like 10% of voters to cause a 50/50 result.

a vote so close either way that nobody could be standing up and saying that "this is the will of the British people"

Which is exactly what we got. The country is divided on the EU about 50/50.

 

[Ambrosia]

Vaping is a common subject for Ambrosia. I suspect they are involved in the industry and wants to pedal more product and sees leaving the EU as a means to that.

You would be incorrect. I was in the vaping industry. It wasn't worth it to pay the £100k or so I would have needed to to get the right bits of paper to stay in business so I closed up shop and laid off my staff.

I am still passionate about helping people to quit smoking though. When you talk to people day in day out who tell you much better they feel having stopped smoking it has that effect on you.

And whatever way you slice it Article 20 of the TPD is still a godawful piece of legislation that only helps big business.

 

[3point14]

And whatever way you slice it Article 20 of the TPD is still a godawful piece of legislation that only helps big business.

And which likely would have been in effect in UK law had lobbying into European law not covered the UK.

Read all about UK lobbying here.


The issue you have is one of how politics currently works, not where it's happening.

You've been hoodwinked by the UK press and politicians - they've been telling you for years that it's Europe's fault and they've been lying.


Edit:

From: https://www.politico.eu/article/bre...yists-theresa-may-westminster-communications/


Brussels:

Approx no. of lobbyists: 20,000
Money spent on lobbying: €1.5B

London:

Approx no. of lobbyists: 141 firms and individuals on the official register*, 784 firms and individuals on CIPR's lobbying register
Money spent on lobbying: UNKNOWN: The alliance for lobbying transparency estimates £2.0B



*That's right, there's an official register of people who can pay your MP to ignore your interests and substitute their own.

 

[Ambrosia]

So you think the EU is a bad thing and the UK would make better laws on its own because another EU country made better laws for itself and the UK didn't? I'm not sure I follow.

I do think the EU is a bad thing. I think the fundamentals of the EU are great, but is becoming an over complicated cumbersome bureaucracy and is getting more so over time.

I think that the laws of a country, and especially laws designed to protect public health should be written by experts in the field with the point of view of giving the best possible benefit to the public, with views informed by credible scientific research.

Anti-smoking laws should do lots of things to deter people from smoking tobacco and also allow people the choice for smokeless options where they are proven to be much less harmful.

Snus should be available Europe wide. It's much lower risk to health than smoking is, we can see exactly what kind of effect it has on smoking prevalence by looking at the figures for Sweden.
The UK cannot pass a law to legalise snus here because of an EU directive banning its sale (Article 17 of the TPD), even though such a law would greatly benefit the entire country by reducing the number of smokers significantly.

More info on the EU Snus ban can be read here.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I think that the laws of a country, and especially laws designed to protect public health should be written by experts in the field with the point of view of giving the best possible benefit to the public, with views informed by credible scientific research.

I would be shocked to learn this is what the UK would do if not for the pesky EU.

 

[Ambrosia]

And which likely would have been in effect in UK law had lobbying into European law not covered the UK.

Read all about UK lobbying here.

This is probably true. Though it remains easier to change the laws of the UK than the laws of the EU.

The issue you have is one of how politics currently works, not where it's happening.
You've been hoodwinked by the UK press and politicians - they've been telling you for years that it's Europe's fault and they've been lying.

Yes, my problem is with how politics works.

I wanted the discussion after the referendum to be along the lines of "How can we make the EU better so that noone wants to leave." I kind of expected that if the vote was really close that nothing would really change all that much.

 

[3point14]

I wanted the discussion after the referendum to be along the lines of "How can we make the EU better so that noone wants to leave." I kind of expected that if the vote was really close that nothing would really change all that much.

Before we can even reasonably have the discussion, we need to undo the hatchet job that UK press and politicians have been indulging in for the last 30 years in order to deflect from their own deficiencies.

 

[Wudang]

The UK cannot pass a law to legalise snus here because of an EU directive banning its sale (Article 17 of the TPD), even though such a law would greatly benefit the entire country by reducing the number of smokers significantly.

How did Sweden allow it then? It being in the EU as well. Why can't the UK do the same?

 

[Strawberry]

The latest cunning plan to get a good Brexit deal, courtesy of Pritti Patel - threaten to starve the Irish.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/

She must think she's living in 1840. A little lesson in the realities of 2018 for her....

Ireland Tops U.S. as the Country
Best Able to Feed Its People

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/

 

[Ambrosia]

How did Sweden allow it then? It being in the EU as well. Why can't the UK do the same?

It's explicity written into the directive that Sweden is exempt.

Member States shall prohibit the placing on the market of tobacco for oral use, without prejudice to Article 151 of the Act of Accession of Austria, Finland and Sweden.

[...]


Council Directive 89/622/EEC prohibited the sale in the Member States of certain types of tobacco for oral use. Directive 2001/37/EC reaffirmed that prohibition. Article 151 of the Act of Accession of Austria, Finland and Sweden grants Sweden a derogation from the prohibition. The prohibition of the sale of tobacco for oral use should be maintained in order to prevent the introduction in the Union (apart from Sweden) of a product that is addictive and has adverse health effects.

 

[3point14]

It's explicity written into the directive that Sweden is exempt.

The fact that UK legislators didn't seek the same exemption is telling.

 

[The Moog]

The latest cunning plan to get a good Brexit deal, courtesy of Pritti Patel - threaten to starve the Irish.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/

She must think she's living in 1840. A little lesson in the realities of 2018 for her....



https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/

It won't sink in. Hopefully they will get the boot but somehow I doubt it will happen.

 

[jimbob]

It won't sink in. Hopefully they will get the boot but somehow I doubt it will happen.

Face it, your namesake is a far brighter bulb than most of the Brexiteers.


Maybe they are having a drinking game and are seeing how stupid they can get before anyone realises what's up?

 

[Arcade22]

The fact that UK legislators didn't seek the same exemption is telling.

Maybe British government officials and MEPs didn't care enough about standing up for small British vaping businesses. The EU is no doubt to blame for this though.

 

[dudalb]

The latest cunning plan to get a good Brexit deal, courtesy of Pritti Patel - threaten to starve the Irish.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/

She must think she's living in 1840. A little lesson in the realities of 2018 for her....



https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/

Oh, that will do wonders for the UK relations with the Republic.

Has Patel ever heard of the Potato Famine, and the emotional scar it left on the Irish people..which exists to this day?

 

[jimbob]

Oh, that will do wonders for the UK relations with the Republic.

Has Patel ever hear do the Potato Famine, and the emotional scar it left on the Irish people..which exists to this day?

I think the US has just said "look how stupid and damaging our government can be - top that!" and the UK's just said "hold our beer"

 

[Strawberry]

Oh, that will do wonders for the UK relations with the Republic.

Has Patel ever heard of the Potato Famine, and the emotional scar it left on the Irish people..which exists to this day?

Patel is of Indian heritage. So its bad enough she doesn't seem to know any Irish history, she's clearly never heard of the Bengal Famine either.

 

[dudalb]

I think the US has just said "look how stupid and damaging our government can be - top that!" and the UK's just said "hold our beer"

If you wanted to stir up all the worst memories the Irish have of British rule, this is one hell of a good good way to do it.
And that includes Irish Americans.
I suspect at many Irish bars in the US "Revenge for Skibberean" will be sung tonight...

 

[jimbob]

Patel is of Indian heritage. So its bad enough she doesn't seem to know any Irish history, she's clearly never heard of the Bengal Famine either.

If you wanted to stir up all the worst memories the Irish have of British rule, this is one hell of a good good way to do it.
And that includes Irish Americans.
I suspect at many Irish bars in the US "Revenge for Skibberean" will be sung tonight...

Agreed with both. And particularly stupid when it is the UK that will be the country falling over and likely to need the help.

As an aside my former parents-in-law were/are very Tory and I ended up being so bored that I read one of their books, which was an autobiography by the Duke of Devonshire - I was taken with dumbfounded by his assertion that the Irish always regarded him as English despite him owning lots of land in Ireland

I'd have thought even someone like that might have had the self-awareness to realise the history of English landowners in Ireland.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Agreed with both. And particularly stupid when it is the UK that will be the country falling over and likely to need the help.

As an aside my former parents-in-law were/are very Tory and I ended up being so bored that I read one of their books, which was an autobiography by the Duke of Devonshire - I was taken with dumbfounded by his assertion that the Irish always regarded him as English despite him owning lots of land in Ireland

I'd have thought even someone like that might have had the self-awareness to realise the history of English landowners in Ireland.

What was it that Dougal MacAngus, 4th Duke of Argyll said of Prince Edmund having Scottish titles?

"Ay, Duke of Edinburgh and about as Scottish as the Queen of England's tits."