"Black face" skit on Australian variety show

[Akhenaten]

I've seen a lot in this thread.

I've seen a lot of people who don't understand Australia.

I've seen a lot of people attempting to export their country's values to Australia.

The posters who find themselves in both of these groups at once are headed for the Black Stump, which I believe is somewhere beyond Coonabarabran, NSW.

It's tough country. Wear a hat. Take fruitcakes with you.


Fun Fact:

The meaning of the word "Coonabarabran" is said to probably derive from the Kamilaroi word 'gunbaraaybaa' meaning 'peaceful'.


Fancy that.

 

[godofpie]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-co...386/september-24-2009/the-word---blackwashing

I don't know if this will help but even the Colbert audience gasped at the end.
For the record I thought it was funny as hell.

 

[Legend]

I think you'll have an opinion on this video, athon and others. I continually remember it throughout this thread:



Alex.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

That is called being selective. He also said: "if they came onto the show looking like that in America it would be Hey Hey There's No More Show". Not only that but the quote you pointed out is actually enough to deduce that insinuation anyway. It first implies the skit was morally wrong and that "where [he] comes from" it would never go to air (backed up by your own words and what Harry expressed in the earlier quote I mentioned) and therefore America is more morally correct.

I purposely convoluted all of that, it is otherwise a very simple premise.

Apologies for any spelling or grammar errors as I'm using my brother's iPod Touch.

Alex.

Alex, speaking as an American, if I saw anyone in today's world wearing black face (whether masks, paint or anything else, as part of a skit or a party costume, on TV, in a play or in real life), I'd be shocked. I might not think the person was a racist but I'd certainly think they were a moron, living in a bubble, very ignorant or all three. Living in another universe.

A white person dressing up as black (or any other race) is very, very offensive. People might be less offended at seeing someone dress as a Nazi or as Hitler. Just to give you small example of how touchy it is, one year at a Halloween parade, I saw a few white women dressed in traditional Indian clothing and with red dots in the middle of their heads and black wigs and fake tans. Everyone around thought they had lost their minds.

If I travelled to another country and saw it there, I'd be shocked. And I'd feel I'd have to say something. That isn't the same as saying "We are better than you! WE would NEVER do that!". It's stating the objective fact that in America, it's unthinkable to see on TV or anywhere else. Which it is.

Maybe you need to see some black face to understand why it is so unacceptable in America (even when it is clearly meant as a joke or gag or intended to be light hearted).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfiNT6AKG0s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaVK...1B8FE0AF&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIrdgyd-i3w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C45g3YP7JOk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LMrdcs4ucc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W0a...51201EA9E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4v_...F8BD0F64&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

 

[Akhenaten]

I think you'll have an opinion on this video, athon and others. I continually remember it throughout this thread:



Alex.

I am an other. I thought it was absolutely hilarious.



ETA: Just watched it again and I was right. It IS hilarious.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Now that I have had some time to think about this, I say Harry Connick Jr. was not outraged enough.

I was actually thinking about this earlier. I think I concur. Let's look at a different scenario (as opposed to the OMG I'm so totally offended I want to punch someone opinion of a poster, above)....
Connick treated the incident far too lightly in his initial reaction. All he said, without any sign or tone of condemnation was that they certainly couldn't have gotten away with it in America and would have been cancelled. Watch the tape. Imagine a southern white person saying something so low key on an American show if this happened? He'd be roundly condemned as being a throwback to Jim Crow days. Just sort of shaking his head and saying, "Heh heh, you couldn't do that where I come from."
Take a break.
The second interview was much(well.. a bit) later.
Imagine Harry's agent in the backstage area running out to Harry when the cameras are off... "Are you frakkin' nuts - just sitting there grinning while making a lightweight comment and no protest!!??"
So Harry's got this problem. He has a loyal following in Oz. They buy CDs and they buy concert tickets. But he's got a bigger following in America. So they ask the producers for an on-screen segment when Harry gets to make his second comments. Ah, all's well in the world... Harry tells the Aussies he loves them, but explains that his over the top reaction which wasn't over the top at all is because he's a caring individual and that we don't behave like that or approve it in America, but hey hey I know it was all in good fun, so please buy my new CD.

No evidence whatsoever to support it, of course... but it's a likely scenario. The second bit was added because he did so little in the first bit.

I find it hard to believe that 40 year old doctors have never heard of Al Jolson and 'Blackface' in general, and that painting your face completely PITCH BLACK can be done with the intention of impersonating African American performers, rather than deliberately exaggerating a physical characteristic, as a caricature. As I see the exaggeration of skin colour as the predominant feature of the 'skit', then I most certainly consider it to be racist.

Blackness is the only quality of the skit. They won 20 years ago just being blackfaced and goofy. That's sort of the definition of blackface/minstrel. Blacks are funny because they're just so black.

The "Where's Khamal" cartoon in this segment is the real smoking gun. You could say that the cartoonist does not speak for the performers, producers and host, but his job is to connect with the audience and the mood of the show, he seemed to do a good job in this case.(Khamal used to perform on the show regularly, he is Sri Lankan, and apparently tolerated years of light-hearted racism).

For non Aussies,... Kamahl's schtick was to look serious and ask the camera, "Why is everybody so unkind?" Sort of a Laugh In - Arte Johnson verbal punctuation mark. By putting that in there, the producer and cartoon artist (combined, I feel) are acknowledging that the bit was, well, "unkind".

Oh, and I'm not sure how light-hearted he felt it was. Someone posted this link above. http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,28383,26185061-5013560,00.html

p.s. he's evidently Malaysian

There is an Aboriginal TV channel here in Australia called NITV, you can pick it up through FOXTEL. I don't think they would have approved of or played such a sketch on their station.

I'd be curious if those supporting this as "light hearted fun" would've felt the same had the five white guys come out as five aborigines, hauling didgeridos(doos?) and boomerangs and sporting ceremonial makeup and costume? I'm not being facetious... would that be considered proper/acceptable?

 

[Akhenaten]

<snip>


I'd be curious if those supporting this as "light hearted fun" would've felt the same had the five white guys come out as five aborigines, hauling didgeridos(doos?) and boomerangs and sporting ceremonial makeup and costume? I'm not being facetious... would that be considered proper/acceptable?

I'm not necessarily a supporter of this as light-hearted fun, but since I'm here anyway . . .

If five white guys came out as Aborigines, there would be much biting of lower lips.

If they just stood there like stale bottles of naughtybeerword and expected their mere appearance to be seen as "funny" or "entertaining" there would be outrage and an immediate plug-pulling and massive legal action. If they even attempted a racist joke there would be a lynching.

If they waited patiently while John Blackman, the voice-over man, said "This will end well." and the cartoon man flashed a card with a lynch mob on it, and then launched into an awesome performance of traditional Aboriginal music, then there would have been appreciative and enthusiastic applause.

Some people would complain.

 

[Juniversal]

I think this thread can be summed up by saying these images conjour up long dormant and incendiary imagery for Americans that Australians generally MIGHT not be aware of and needs to be concluded as a moment of bad judgement and excercise caution next time.

 

[Damien Evans]

No, they did, mocking black people by dancing in 'fro wigs and blackface is the entire point of dancing in 'fro wigs and blackface. That's why this crude racist humor is so offensive and piggish. This wasn't some innocent gaffe.

Are you honestly having trouble understanding why this would get people beaten up in the US? This stuff is part and parcel to lynchings and the KKK. It's a toxic thing.

America moved beyond minstrel shows 90 years ago. Why hasn't Australian pop culture? Honestly, how is it possible that this crap can still be shown on TV and laughed at in 2009? Is Australian society really this backwards? You did have race riots on the beaches a few years ago and I hear the racism against "Abbos" is everywhere but I don't know personally.

I have left unbolded the parts of your post which were idiotic.

 

[Damien Evans]

I don't have anything to contribute on the "black face" angle. I just thought the act sucked, in general.

The acts for that segment of the show are meant to suck.

 

[Damien Evans]

The show was cancelled years ago for being a terribly tired format long past its use by date. They didn't seem to understand at the time why it was no longer watched and they don't seem to have learnt anything since. I think it was a case of everyone involved being more than 20 years out of date and having no idea about what was either funny or appropriate.

No, it was cancelled because it cost too much. It still rated very well at the time.

 

[roger]

Roger, I'm not sure at whom your post was directed, or to whom it referred, but I for one have never seen that image before and it means nothing to me.

It was directed at anyone that didn't know the history. You commented that the image meant nothing to you. To Americans, recognize that the image is nearly the same slap in the face as somebody saying the n word. It's an iconic image. If I showed you, or anybody, an image of a circus clown, you'd immediately know what it was, and you'd have certain expectations if someone got on stage dressed as a circus clown. Likewise if I showed you an image of a mime, or a person dressed as a mime got on stage. This blackface image is just as iconic. Would you believe somebody if they said they had never seen a circus clown before, but just happened to dress like a circus clown, got on stage and performed a circus clown act? No, I don't think you would. So, it is hard for us to believe that somebody dressed in blackface, got up on stage, and did a blackface type act, and didn't know what it was. Very,very unlikely.

The explanation you have provided is nice, but it seems odd that you need an image and a substantial explanation in order to convince someone to be offended about something they were hitherto somewhat blasé about.

What's that all about?

How is that odd? If you didn't know the n word was offensive, or why, it would take some time to explain it. Would the fact that I would write several paragraphs to explain it somehow invalidate the insult, or otherwise be an effort to "convince someone to be offended"? N word is extremely offensive. So is blackface. Now you have the historical context for understanding the latter.

Without that context, I can see how you would view the act as just making gentle fun of the Jacksons. A fine target, and nothing racist about making a bit of fun of somebody that incidentally is black.

But that isn't the case here, is it? They dressed in iconic blackface, they did a blackface act, an act that is based on 200 years of racism.

 

[Akhenaten]

I think this thread can be summed up by saying these images conjour up long dormant and incendiary imagery for Americans that Australians generally MIGHT not be aware of and needs to be concluded as a moment of bad judgement and excercise caution next time.

That has my vote as a very well crafted summation.

Thank you and well met.


Cheers,

Dave

 

[Legend]

A white person dressing up as black (or any other race) is very, very offensive. People might be less offended at seeing someone dress as a Nazi or as Hitler. Just to give you small example of how touchy it is, one year at a Halloween parade, I saw a few white women dressed in traditional Indian clothing and with red dots in the middle of their heads and black wigs and fake tans. Everyone around thought they had lost their minds.

If I travelled to another country and saw it there, I'd be shocked. And I'd feel I'd have to say something. That isn't the same as saying "We are better than you! WE would NEVER do that!". It's stating the objective fact that in America, it's unthinkable to see on TV or anywhere else. Which it is.

But firstly stating that it's wrong and being shocked is one thing, but it is another to then state "that'd never happen in America". Indirectly the line of logic still follows that:

1. You are doing something offensive.
2. This offensive thing would never happen in my country.
3. My country is on a higher moral ground.

Unless you want to play with semantics, I still don't see how that syllogism, if you will, can be denied.

Again, these are different values, there is no need to start "speaking out" against it because Harry isn't in his own country. He is in another country, with another culture, another context. Aside from many other factors which I've already addressed.

As far as I'm concerned I think everything's pretty much been covered. Everything here is very interesting food for thought, but for the sake of avoiding runnning pointlessly around in circles, I'm not too sure if I'll keep at it.

Alex.

 

[Damien Evans]

Kamahl is not too happy about it either.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,28383,26185061-5013560,00.html

See, now that part was racist. There was just no reason to bring Khamal into it at all.

 

[WildCat]

I have left unbolded the parts of your post which were idiotic.

Huh, it seemed over in another thread you were capable of understanding the issue, but I guess not.

I have heard that the abo's cant buy beer and pornography, is this true?

First, if you ever do see an aboriginal, don't call him that if you like your face the way it is.

 

[Damien Evans]

Actually, that reminds me. Can you still buy Coon cheese in Australia?

Yep.

Dunno why you would though, it's pretty crap cheese.

 

[roger]

If five white guys came out as Aborigines, there would be much biting of lower lips.

If they just stood there like stale bottles of naughtybeerword and expected their mere appearance to be seen as "funny" or "entertaining" there would be outrage and an immediate plug-pulling and massive legal action. If they even attempted a racist joke there would be a lynching.

Okay, and what I was trying to convey in earlier posts was not just that this kind of mocking was going on, but that there was 200 years of history behind this form of "entertainment". That image I posted earlier is nearly a century old.

Let's say I nailed a turd onto a cross, or put a cross in a bucket of urine. You can see there is a bit more context there than a turd on a stick. There's a Christian reference there, it's probably liking Christ to a turd, etc. Wildly offensive, though somebody never exposed to Christian symbology would wonder what the uproar was all about.

That's how iconic the images that act used are.

 

[Damien Evans]

I'd say blind jerks who have been granted the benefit of having a relatively homogeneous culture on an island-continent and are busy bungling the ONE cultural clash they have (with the natives) because they have no idea how to interact with others. But hey, just because you've internalized most of the fun parts of chav culture doesn't make you fruitcakes (what it does make you though...).

Oh yeah, we're homogeneous all right. Or at least if you take away the 40% of our population who aren't from North-Western Europe we are, anyway.

But thanks for showing you know absolutely nothing about Australia.

 

[Legend]

Yeah, I was going to respond to that, Damien, but figured everyone probably did know what a moronic statement that really is that it needed practically no response whatsoever.

Alex.