"Black face" skit on Australian variety show

[roger]

Following a proud JREF tradition, I read the posts, but not the linked material. I just watched the video.

They knew what they were doing.

Harry gave them a zero. The host asked if he might give them a 2 or 3 for just showing up. Harry responds "If they showed up in the US looking like that" and trailed off with a "look" on his face. The audience titters, the host replies "you are absolutely correct", and the act laughs and nods their head, smiling and in agreement. They knew.

Whence the claim they didn't know what they were doing?

Bull.

 

[Akhenaten]

In a big way, what follows is addressed more to gtc than you, Athon, but I didn't want to quote a post from several pages back.

While I can accept this is possible, it's honestly pretty hard to believe. We (Americans) invented blackface. We made it what it is - a very offensive, racist joke. There's been a very few rare exceptions where it has successfully been used in ironic ways (referenced above in this thread), and such acts received tons of press, argument, etc. Recent events such as Ted Danson being in blackface got worldwide press.

Now, I can absolutely believe that a random Australian could be ignorant of all that. Can I believe that a group of theater professionals, directors, producers, TV executives, all in the industry, all who must have been exposed to uproar over Ted Danson (don't tell me they don't read the trade press) etc., were all ignorant of it? It's pretty darn hard. Much like I find it pretty hard to believe that in general Australians don't know the N word is extremely offensive. It's possible, sure, but it sets the BS meter off.

Don't be a fruitcake, Australians can't be expected to keep track of that stuff, even if they're in the industry.

Don't question it. The australians all assure me it's totally true.

Anecdote:

When I was a child, a very popular British musical variety show was on TV. It was called The Black and White Minstrel Show and it was exactly what it sounds like. A very large percentage of it was blackface and it was fabulous.

One of my fondest memories is of watching that show with my Grandma, who was a huge fan. My Grandma was second-generation Australian and went 'home' to England once a year. P & O - Oronsay, Oriana, Canberra etc.

At that age, I'd never heard of racism, and neither had Grandma.

I believe that show could be put on air in Australia now, as an historical piece perhaps, and little fuss would be made.


ETA: I mean 'real' fuss. The media would have a field day. So what?

 

[Akhenaten]

Bump - 'cuz I don't think some people have viewed the video (from some of the comments), and I'd also like to ask if there's more to this than what's on the video. I see no Harry Connick walking off. Is there more to the story, elsewhere.

He commented, in his turn, from the panel and then they gave him a snippet of interview, later. I didn't see whatever they (the producers, I assume) viewed as him being upset. He merely commented.

<snippy>

Worth 1000

 

[Beerina]

Or maybe they should even be hanged.

Ok, you can be hanged. I'll stick with being hung.

 

[roger]

Anecdote:

When I was a child, a very popular British musical variety show was on TV. It was called The Black and White Minstrel Show and it was exactly what it sounds like. A very large percentage of it was blackface and it was fabulous.

One of my fondest memories is of watching that show with my Grandma, who was a huge fan. My Grandma was second-generation Australian and went 'home' to England once a year. P & O - Oronsay, Oriana, Canberra etc.

At that age, I'd never heard of racism, and neither had Grandma.

I believe that show could be put on air in Australia now, as an historical piece perhaps, and little fuss would be made.


ETA: I mean 'real' fuss. The media would have a field day. So what?

Those darkies just can't take a joke, can they? What a bunch of fruitcakes.

This was a show that had it's first black performer in 1975, 18 years after the show started, a performer that was contractually obligated to appear and that regrets ever being associated with the show. A show that received petitions to end it for it's racist content, and that is widely regarded as an embarrassment today.


What can I say to that? This is your fondest memory?!?! I unreservedly accept that as a child, you were unaware of the historical connotations of blackface, and of the racist overtones of the show. But now? Come on. Pining for the good old days when you could make racist jokes about blacks with impunity?

Sorry, not going to happen today.

 

[roger]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Black And White Minstrel Show harked back to a specific period and location--the Deep South where coy White women could be seen being wooed by docile, smiling black slaves. The black men were, in fact, White artists "Blacked-up." The racist implications of the premise of the programme were yet to be widely acknowledged or publicly discussed. But it was this which largely led to the programme's eventual demise.

[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Many felt that a large part of "minstrel humour" was based on caricaturing black people and depicting them as being both stupid and credulous.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]source.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What a loss to the arts and the humanities. To think we can't see "Zip Coon" on TV anymore, a stock blackface character of an 'uppity colored', or "Jim Crow", the carefree slave. Who could possibly be offended by this?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[GreyICE]

Anecdote:

When I was a child, a very popular British musical variety show was on TV. It was called The Black and White Minstrel Show and it was exactly what it sounds like. A very large percentage of it was blackface and it was fabulous.

One of my fondest memories is of watching that show with my Grandma, who was a huge fan. My Grandma was second-generation Australian and went 'home' to England once a year. P & O - Oronsay, Oriana, Canberra etc.

At that age, I'd never heard of racism, and neither had Grandma.

I believe that show could be put on air in Australia now, as an historical piece perhaps, and little fuss would be made.


ETA: I mean 'real' fuss. The media would have a field day. So what?

Um, yes. When racism is the cultural norm, it is frequently seen as acceptable. And the people complaining about it are seen as troublemakers.

Rosa Parks was loudly condemned by a large segment for not 'just moving to the back of the bus.' I mean how hard is it to walk to the back of a bus? Then there'd have been no problems. What a lousy rhymes-with-witch, making all this fuss over a short walk.

 

[oldhat]

When I was a child, a very popular British musical variety show was on TV. It was called The Black and White Minstrel Show and it was exactly what it sounds like. A very large percentage of it was blackface and it was fabulous.

One of my fondest memories is of watching that show with my Grandma, who was a huge fan. My Grandma was second-generation Australian and went 'home' to England once a year. P & O - Oronsay, Oriana, Canberra etc.

At that age, I'd never heard of racism, and neither had Grandma.

The good old days, before the darkies, ******* and wogs got all uppity.

 

[roger]

The good old days, before the darkies, ******* and wogs got all uppity.

It was a hoot being a slave; how boorish of the media to get all up in arms when we try to point that out by spending 25 years, week after week, making gentle fun of them by portraying them as smiling, docile, ignorant, dumb slaves. It never gets old.

 

[oldhat]

It was a hoot being a slave

I'll say, especially when your country was stealing land all over the world from people that didn't belong to you and making a mint off of the slave trade!

But hey, all in good fun! Pip pip!

 

[GreyICE]

I'll say, especially when your country was stealing land all over the world from people that didn't belong to you and making a mint off of the slave trade!

But hey, all in good fun! Pip pip!

Haha, and then the slave owners and former slave owners had shows where they dressed up as you and mocked you as lazy, stupid, and slutty! Oh man, those were a laugh riot!

 

[Epok]

I believe it did. And still does. According to Wikipedia, it was the one-time gun-crime capital of the UK... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham#Crime_and_policing

It also has a bit of a reputation for racial (especially against muslims) violence.

However, when I looked at your avatar, it occurred to me that "Al" probably meant "Alabama".

Wow, that link was informing. I thought Alabama was the only one with hate (haha ask me if I'm being sarcastic). But, it is interesting to note that we aren't the only ones who have a bad history. You rock dude.

 

[roger]

I'll say, especially when your country was stealing land all over the world from people that didn't belong to you and making a mint off of the slave trade!

But hey, all in good fun! Pip pip!

I'm laughing until I cry.

The good ole days.

 

[Epok]

Oh dear Epok-where do I begin. I lived in B'ham, specifically Midtown and Hueytown. I owned a business in Midtown and most if not all of my employees were black. The first thing white people in that part of the country want to talk about when the black guy leaves the room is the black guy. ****** this and ****** that and...it was just awful. And I'm from NC. It's not like I hadn't seen racism before but in B'ham it is so overt. I even had customers talk about my black employees, using that word, in FRONT OF MY BLACK EMPLOYEES! In my dealings with the police in that area, they refer to black people as *******. I imagine you live in Vestavia Hills, or Hoover. You need to go check out Fairfield or Dolomite. I'm telling ya, Alabama is the most backwards hate filled place I have ever lived. You know what Alabama's state motto is?

At least we're not Mississippi!

The difference between Chappelle and people performing in "black face" is tone and tenor of the portrayal. The funniest Chappelle bit is the one where he plays a blind leader of the Aryans and he doesn't know that he is black.



This one with Eddie Murphy was ahead of it's time-
http://www.jokeroo.com/video/funny/white-eddie-murphy.html

How did he know we drank champagne on public transportation and we didn't have to pay for stuff as long there was no black people around?!? Damn you MURPHY!!!

My daughter used the word "niglet" in my presence the other day. She is being raised in a house where that kind of word is not used or tolerated. The idea that racism and discrimination based on race are part of our past is just not true.

No dude, I live in Birmingham and I grew up in Center Point. I have lived in the redneck, racist spots but you don't bring that attitude to Birmingham, Alabama anymore cause you will have both white and black people on you.
Times have changed. At least your employees are rational (and it seems like you are also) cause I would let them beat the crap outta anyone that talked like that around me. I do hate how some racist, white people think that its ok to say ****** around me and I don't put up with it anymore (I'm all grown up now).

I applaud you for raising your daughter in a non-racist environment. Racism is taught and you sound like you are doing good to keep her from having that attitude, so keep on truckin' dude.

 

[Epok]

OMG, so much wrong with this post, where to even start? Oh well, I give up.

No, don't comment on it if you don't wanna explain why I am wrong. That is called Flaming. Did you even get the gist of my post?

 

[Epok]

There is a difference between unintentionally offending someone and intentionally offending someone.

That is my point also

They were told on the night and they did apologise. The sentiment you express here is not what I am complaining about.

Another good point.

I am complaining about people assuming that they were being deliberately racist and I am complaining about people assuming that this implies that Australians in general are deliberately racist. The people who are making these claims are acting out ignorance.

Have the guys who did the skit ever been in an Aryan Nation rally? Or anything similar? Maybe they were being silly and didn't realize how others would view it.

Damn this tread got full fast. How do you guys keep up?

 

[Epok]

To Everyone,There is one thing that really p!sses me off: self-righteous idiots.

I agree, and isn't that the biggest problem?

If there was one thing that made me want to punch someone more than anything has in this entire year's global news, it was Harry Connick Jnr.'s insinuations on this show.

"[Americans] have taken so much time trying not to make black people look like buffoons." Americans, he is saying, are too "proper" to ever let something as outrageous as this EVER go to air in his almighty and politically correct country.

Dude we should start a backyard MMA club cause getting punched in the face calms me down too. But seriously, Harry Connick Jr. was being arrogant in the way he insulted Australians. "You wouldn't get away with the in America." Isn't that what he said? I still respect him as a musician but he is not a good public speaker.

Tell me that racism is not about the acceptance of other people's culture? Australia's culture is inclusive of jokes that may be offensive to people who's sensitivities are turned up to the highest volume, like Harry Connick's. What he needs to realise, is that what is racist to his stupid head, may not be racist to the majority of Australians, and he needs to respect that if he's to maintain any form of dignity in the storm he's brewing in a teacup.

That goes back to the point that Harry Connick Jr. started the controversy. It wouldn't be a problem if he had not of said that would it.

That paragraph was mostly theoretical. The skit was not racist.

Who in the audience or at home was laughing at the fact that these men had black faces on and black people are fun to laugh at? I'd almost certainly bet every last cent I owned to the fact that no one was.

The joke, what made the skit (hardly) funny, was their impersonation of Michael Jackson, who's brothers happen to be black. They're impersonating black people, how else do you do it? How can you do it non-offensively? Do you do what Captain Righteousness Connick himself did and go without the black face paint?

What if they wore masks? What if they wore (strangely enough) black faced masks of these men? Would it be racist then? Would he even have considered speaking out "on behalf of his country"?

Did these guys even realize that their black faces were reminiscent of Minstrel shows?

Your post was too long and had too many points. Please try to dumb it down for the masses.

 

[roger]

Did these guys even realize that their black faces were reminiscent of Minstrel shows?

Given that they nodded 'yes' with **** eating grins when Harry said they couldn't get away with this in America, I'd have to say yes.

Given that the host said "you are absolutely correct" to the same, I'd have to say yes.

So, yes.

 

[Delscottio]

I've finally been able to watch it.

At first I thought it was more a p*ss take out of Michael Jackson being whited up - the contrast against the rest of them. Fair enough at that point - making an old gag, visually.

Then the old clip came on where they were all blacked up and the audience still found it funny when to be fair it was ◊◊◊◊, the only thing I can think they were laughing at was 5 blokes blacked up regardless of the routine - so I probably err on the offensive racist side. It just looked so wrong!

Given that they nodded 'yes' with **** eating grins when Harry said they couldn't get away with this in America, I'd have to say yes.

Given that the host said "you are absolutely correct" to the same, I'd have to say yes.

So, yes.

Personally I don't think the grinning says that much, they look uncomfortable and straining a grin hoping to get it over with. My opinion of course.

The host isn't going to lay down the smackdown on air to be fair - I can't see him saying much else.


I don't think this would have got onto TV in the UK* now so I may be a bit biased because of this.


*Anyone know / think this would have been shown here?

 

[roger]

Personally I don't think the grinning says that much, they look uncomfortable?

Okay, let's say I unjustly accuse you of being racist in front of a stage, when you had no such intentions. Do you smile and nod your head, or look shocked and shake it? look at the tape, at the MJ character, right around 2:18-2:20.

Or alternatively, since racism is so charged, at work one of your employees makes a sexually suggestive comment and you say to him "that sort of thing doesn't fly in the workplace" and he grins sheepishly and nods his head, would you ever accept him later saying he had no idea it was unacceptable?

I find it extremely difficult to accept other explanation other than they knew exactly why Harry was protesting their act. You just don't nod yes to vile accusations that have no connection to your intended behavior.