Bjarne on: Dark Energy, only an illusion.

[erlando]

Still no math, I see. No surprise there.

Bjarne you're full of ****. Your "hypothesises" are kook. I just hope you're not anyway near a teaching function.

 

[Reality Check]

So long you don't know what gravity really is, this statement is nonsense.

That is really inane, Bjarne.
We measure that gravity is an attractive force. That is what keeps planets in their orbits.
Gravity has no "power to rise mountains" because gravitational force pulls on mass.

So how much does space expand here my friend?

As much as it expands everywhere.

 

[Bjarne]

We measure that gravity is an attractive force.

The top of the iceberg my friend.
And by the way, - the iceberg is in fact really water and hence it is also the ocean.
And it is air H2 + O (“air”) etc.,
That what I mean: Limited Reality Check, everything is only a question of perspective. This is where the cows comes in.

As much as it expands everywhere.

Ohh no, this is not the (approved) orthodox prevailing “knowledge” my friend..
Good to know you agree to that, - hence I am not the only crackpot here.

 

[Reality Check]

The top of the iceberg my friend.
And by the way, - the iceberg is in fact really water and hence it is also the ocean.
And it is air H2 + O (“air”) etc.,
That what I mean: Limited Reality Check, everything is only a question of perspective. This is where the cows comes in.

The iceberg has a top. That top is that gravity is always attractive.
And by the way, - the iceberg is in fact really water and hence it is also the ocean.
And it is air H2 + O (“air”) etc.,
That what I mean: Limited Reality Bjarne, everything is only a question of ignorance. This is where the cows comes in.

Ohh no, this is not the (approved) orthodox prevailing “knowledge” my friend..
Good to know you agree to that, - hence I am not the only crackpot here.

Ohh no, your ignorance is showing yet again.

• The universe is expanding.
• This means that each and every point in the universe is getting further away from each other.
• This is the scientific knowledge that is in all of the textbooks that you have never read, my friend..

You are the not the only crackpot here, for example you are just as crackpottery as Pixie of Key.

The one scientific fact we agree on in this thread is that all of the universe is expanding.
The simple concept that you cannot understand is that we cannot detect this expansion locally, e.g. using the redshift of local stars. That is because there is a little thing called gravity. This dominates locally. The effect of the expansion locally has calculated many times, e.g.
The influence of the cosmological expansion on local systems

Following renewed interest, the problem of whether the cosmological expansion affects the dynamics of local systems is reconsidered. The cosmological correction to the equations of motion in the locally inertial Fermi normal frame (the relevant frame for astronomical observations) is computed. The evolution equations for the cosmological perturbation of the two--body problem are solved in this frame. The effect on the orbit is insignificant as are the effects on the galactic and galactic--cluster scales.

It is discussed in textbooks, e.g.

• Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler, Gravitation, chapters 27 and 29. Page 719 discusses this very question.

 

[dafydd]

The top of the iceberg my friend.
And by the way, - the iceberg is in fact really water and hence it is also the ocean.
And it is air H2 + O (“air”) etc.,
That what I mean: Limited Reality Check, everything is only a question of perspective. This is where the cows comes in.


Ohh no, this is not the (approved) orthodox prevailing “knowledge” my friend..
Good to know you agree to that, - hence I am not the only crackpot here.

So you admit that you are a crackpot,that is good.Admitting that you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

 

[Belz...]

1m*1m*1m = 1m3

• today,
• tomorrow,
• after 100 years,
• and also after 100 million years.

Doesn’t matter if the yardstick is growing.

The yardstick is not growing. Otherwise things would blow apart... unless you think the fundamental forces are ALSO growing, and that atoms are ALSO growing...

... in which case it would make no difference and there couldn't be any evidence of it.

 

[MRC_Hans]

1m*1m*1m = 1m3

• today,
• tomorrow,
• after 100 years,
• and also after 100 million years.

Doesn’t matter if the yardstick is growing.

The transition of 1 also had me puzzled for a while (around the 7th grade).

Of course it is nonsense, and all you have to do to realize it is to recalculate it into, say, feet.

Just for fun, I'll do it for you Bjarne:

1m=3.28 ft

So now we have, for exactly the same cube as the one you mention:

3.28ft*3.38ft*3.28ft = 35.29 ft 3

So, Bjarne, did the cube change because the yardstick changed?

Hans

 

[Bjarne]

Ohh no, your ignorance is showing yet again.
The universe is expanding.
This means that each and every point in the universe is getting further away from each other.
This is the scientific knowledge that is in all of the textbooks that you have never read, my friend..
You are the not the only crackpot here, for example you are just as crackpottery as Pixie of Key.

The one scientific fact we agree on in this thread is that all of the universe is expanding.
The simple concept that you cannot understand is that we cannot detect this expansion locally, e.g. using the redshift of local stars. That is because there is a little thing called gravity. This dominates locally. The effect of the expansion locally has calculated many times, e.g.

Shame on you.
What you claim is silly nonsense.

Science is what has past the scientific method:

• Measured
• Observed
• Mathematical confirmed.

If space near us expand, (without that matter does, and hence the yardstick as well) we MUST be able to measure it. But we are NOT.

Above in this thread I think we all (except RC) agreed to that according to the Hubble constant it was EASY to calculate that IF space between the Moon and Earth really expand, it could easy be determinate to 2.8 cm per year.

BUT the fact is that we can NOT measure that space expands here.
If it did there would be several ways to measure that.
For exsample from light traveling to us from "behind" the Sun, - for example like Ole Rømer did hundred of years ago.

If you disagree tell me:

Do you believe it is observed that space for example between the moon and Earth is expanding?

Do you believe it is measured that space for example between the moon and Earth is expanding?

Do you believe it is proven mathematical, and if do, tell me how much does you calculation shows space between the moon and us is expanding.

I think you will realize that you certainly are on thin ice my friend, except if you begin to understand that YES space near us really expand, - BUT you can NOT measure it or prove it BECAUSE MATTER AND THE YARDSTICK ALSO EXPANDS PROPOTIONAL. - That's our problem...

Before something is “proven” it’s not science... Do you really not know that RC ?

Anyway welcome to the crackpot Universe RC.
Its always better to be 2 here in the "desert".
YOU ARE RIGHT. ……….
YES SPACE NEAR US EXPANDS. (´why should it not ?)
And because of you are right you too are a chrank.
YOU CAN’T PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT... Funny right ?
Unless measurement EM-Spectre over time.
First when this is done we speak about SCIENCE comrade.

The yardstick is not growing. Otherwise things would blow apart... unless you think the fundamental forces are ALSO growing, and that atoms are ALSO growing...
... in which case it would make no difference and there couldn't be any evidence of it.

You can read above that it is cow logic, - that matter too MUST expand. –
You can see it on Mars,
You can’t get the Earth into a Universe smaller like a atom, when a BigChrunh should begin.
There are plenty of cow-logical reasons to say > YES Matter too MUST expand, otherwise the picture of our Universes fall apart.

But well. I am not saying it is easy to accept this.
It is also not easy to accept that a Supertanker or Jupiter once must have been smaller like an atom etc...... Don’t complain to me. I am just thinking so simple and logical like a cow.

 

[Reality Check]

Shame on you.
What you claim is silly nonsense.

Shame on you, Bjarne.
What you claim is silly nonsense.

If you disagree tell me:

Do you believe it is observed that space for example between the moon and Earth is expanding?

It is not observed or measured that space for example between the moon and Earth is expanding. Scientists know why this effect is to small to observe or measure.

Do you believe it is proven mathematical, and if do, tell me how much does you calculation shows space between the moon and us is expanding.

It is proved mathematical. Look it up for yourself. I am not going to waste my time telling someone who cannot understand simple conceptts, e.g.
Does Bjarne know basic physics (unit-less quantities cannot be arbitrarily assigned units)
First asked 23 October 2009
So far the answer is no !

 

[Bjarne]

It is not observed or measured that space for example between the moon and Earth is expanding. Scientists know why this effect is to small to observe or measure

Yeeehhh and the Moon Sect and Scientology etc.. too.
Sir you are on very thin ice and you know it.
But don’t be afraid there is always space for one more crackpot.

 

[Reality Check]

Yeeehhh and the Moon Sect and Scientology etc.. too.
Sir you are on very thin ice and you know it.
But don’t be afraid there is always space for one more crackpot.

Sir you are on very thin ice and you know it.
But don’t be afraid there is always space for one more ignorant crackpot in the universe and you are filling the gap nicely !

 

[Bjarne]

Sir you are on very thin ice and you know it.
But don’t be afraid there is always space for one more ignorant crackpot in the universe and you are filling the gap nicely !

You are hocked on you own words
We have NO REASON to believe that space near us expands.
Simply because it is never proven.

Bjarne
So how much does space expand here my friend?
RC
As much as it expands everywhere.

No according to the Hubble constant space between the Moon and the Earth “should” expand 2.8 cm per year. IT DOESN’T SEEMS TO HAPPEN.

RC
You reveal that you believe that space here MUST expand too.
This is spontaneous, logical and allright association.
Don’t be embarrassed of that.
It’s Ok to begin to think self.
Don’t believe in people that never had have a hammer in their hands.
Now you are doing the right thing.....
And don’t be embarrassed if someone call you a strange crazy crackpot.
Because you are right. – Space expands almost Quote: “As much as it expands everywhere” – You are on the right track, also even though it can’t be measured / proven.

The next steep for you is only to realize that also space inside matter also expands: (almost) “As much as it expands everywhere”

Finally one that understood what I man.

Finally…

 

[erlando]

What part of "Expansion occurs everywhere but gravity and the strong nuclear force overpowers it locally" don't you understand?

Oh I forgot. You have your own little "theory" about gravity. Wake me when your name is on a gold medal from the Nobel committee.

 

[Reality Check]

You are hocked on you own words
We have NO REASON to believe that space near us expands.
Simply because it is never proven.

You are hocked on ignoring the science.
We have REASON to believe that space near us expands. That is because the universe expands. That is the entire universe.

No according to the Hubble constant space between the Moon and the Earth “should” expand 2.8 cm per year. IT DOESN’T SEEMS TO HAPPEN.

Yes according to the Hubble constant space between the Moon and the Earth “should” expand 2.8 cm per year. IT DOESN’T SEEMS TO HAPPEN.
NO SCIENTIST EXPECTS IT TO HAPPEN.

The next steep for you is only to realize that also space inside matter also expands: (almost) “As much as it expands everywhere”

Finally one that understood what I man.

Finally…

Space "inside matter" also expands. The entire universe expands. Every point in the universe gets further away from every other point in the universe. That includes the space "inside matter".

Matter itself does not expand. Forget about gravity. We are now talking about EM and nuclear forces that are many orders of magnitude stronger than gravity.

Finally one that understood what I mean.

Finally

 

[Bjarne]

We have REASON to believe that space near us expands. That is because the universe expands. That is the entire universe.

EXCACTLY

NO SCIENTIST EXPECTS IT TO HAPPEN.

And this is in fact a dilemma, since IT CAN NOTR BE MEASURED

Space "inside matter" also expands.

EXCACTLY

Matter itself does not expand.

And suddenly again illogical religion takes over.
Simply because you can't know that.
Amen.

 

[erlando]

ZzzZzzZzz

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*
Finally one that understood what I man.

Finally…

Actually, I don't think you even understand yourself what you mean. Your statements are so full of self-contradictions that I don't even know where to begin.

I think you are just on principle being in opposition to everything, but you don't have a coherent idea of your own position.

Hans

 

[Reality Check]

And this is in fact a dilemma, since IT CAN NOTR BE MEASURED

It is not a dilemma. No one with any brains expects that the expansion of the universe can be measured locally. That is because the forces of gravity, electromagneticsm and the nuclear forces dominate in their respective ranges.

• Gravity prevents us from measuring the expansion of the universe until we get to scales much greater than galaxies.
• EM and nuclear forces make sure the matter does not expand.

And suddenly again illogical religion takes over.
Simply because you can't know that.
Amen.

And suddenly again illogical religion takes over.
Simply because you are ignorant of basic physics.
Amen

Do atoms get larger as the universe expand?

In newtonian terms, one says that the Solar System is "gravitationally bound" (ditto the galaxy, the local group). So the Solar System is not expanding. The case for Brooklyn is even clearer: it is bound by atomic forces, and its atoms do not typically follow geodesics. So Brooklyn is not expanding. Now go do your homework.
...
Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler, Gravitation, chapters 27 and 29. Page 719 discusses this very question

The Mystery of the Expanding Universe (really bad font color!) with answers from Nobel prize-winner Leon Lederman.

On the influence of the global cosmological expansion on the local dynamics in the Solar System

Enquiring Minds (not you Bjarne !) at Fermilab also has an answer.

 

[Belz...]

And suddenly again illogical religion takes over.
Simply because you can't know that.
Amen.

You are simply projecting your own ignorance upon reality, Bjarne.

We've told you this before.

The expansion of space is an acceleration, but the fundamental forces are ALSO resulting in acceleration, and they are many times stronger. Therefore matter remains assembled via SN/EM forces and solar systems whole via gravity, for now.

 

[Pixie of key]

Are you science people?

Are you science people or religion people?

lets told how space expanding and why space expanding and lets told how you proof that empty argument/statement?

I told, there is no space who expanding or curving at all!

There is only energy whos density changing in space who dont changing at all.

I have a some science experiement and with that experiement i can proof, space dont curving at all!


Scientific experiments

The argument about the expanding space is an empty argument! There is no way
to make scientific experiments with a space. The argument about expanding
space is not science. It is a religion!

The thing that particules radiate their energy is not an empty claim.
Particules can be examined and make scientifical experiment with them and
this way proof this claim to be true.

Let´s take long chutes from different materials into the space and place
telescopes to them to observe some known place of a star. If the energy that
comes to the chutes makes the photons moving in the chute to bend towards
the chute, we can this way observe that this star concerned seems to be in a
different place than it is known to be!

The sun does not curve the space. The energy coming towards the sun makes
photons passing by the sun to bend towards the sun, because the hot / thick,
small and little exterior surface possessing particules do not interact with
the photons passing by the sun!

Even Einstein once told us that the massive the object is, the slower the
time is.

In relation to the size of a star there is much more energy / substance in
the stars than in the photons. The substance / energy is denser in the stars
than what it is in the photons. The time of the stars is so slower than the
time of the photons!

This way the time of the old photons is faster than the time of the new
photons and the photons radiating from the stars do not tranfer their
kinetic energy to the photons passing by the star as much as the photons
coming towards the star do. This way the light bends at the same time it
passes the star without supposedly the star would bend the space!

.