Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Metullus]

Do not the specimens that result in the naming of Meganthropus indicate the existence of a large bipedal hominid? If I am wrong then I will retract my previous assertation. Regardless, 9+ ft and 800 - 1000lbs for a bipedal primate sounds extreme to me.

From Wikipedia:

"Extreme claims

Meganthropus has been the target of numerous extreme claims, none of which are supported by peer-reviewed authors. Perhaps the most common claim is that Meganthropus was a giant, one unsourced claim put them at 9 feet (2.75 meters) tall and 750 to 1000 pounds (340 to 450 kilograms). No exact height has been published in a peer reviewed journal recently, and none give an indication of Meganthropus being substantially larger than H. erectus."

(Emphasis added)

Large? In the sense that we are a large hominid, yes. Eight feet and 800+ pounds, no.

Let's establish right away that we agree future additions to our genus are not unexpected.

Okay.

IMO, the sum of the specimens on hand, the circumstances involved in the finding of each, and the nature of the fossil record itself paint a picture that is at best an incomplete picture of our history as a species.

Of course it is incomplete. I know of no paleoanthropologist that says otherwise. I certainly do not.

Again, it has by no means been established if HF's dwarfism occured on Flores or happened prior to their arrival.

It is, however, a not unreasonable hypothesis that HF represents a case of h. erectus undergoing island dwarfing on Flores and other islands in relative isolation. Time will tell.

Adding in what we call Meganthropus, this makes me very interested in Homo Erectus' history in SE Asia.

I have always found the subject interesting, and I have never felt the need to drag BF into the mix to make it more interesting.

Ask yourself, what were the circumstances involved in finding that antelope?Here's the crux- it's not "yet we CAN" rather "yet we HAVE." IMO, those are two very different things. Which then makes me reflect upon the circumstances of the finding and what that says about future findings of a great many things.

We have been able to find and identify animals that are physically smaller than BF, with smaller populations than are claimed for BF, in areas far less hospitable than those associated with BF, and in locals far less populated than those associated with BF. We cannot, however find BF. This is my point.

 

[kitakaze]

Hey Hunster,
Tried your URL but got nothing. Gotta link? Anyway, maybe I'm misunderstanding but what do you think about responding to a request for evidence with an offering of eyewitness testimony? A student of mine gave me eyewitness testimony of a fairy the other day (no kidding). I didn't ask her for evidence 'cause she was cute.

 

[Huntster]

Hey Hunster,
Tried your URL but got nothing. Gotta link?....

Sorry. I fixed it, then tested it. It will work now.

... Anyway, maybe I'm misunderstanding but what do you think about responding to a request for evidence with an offering of eyewitness testimony?...

Thousands of eyewitness reports are "evidence". Like I posted before, many skeptics refuse to consider them. That's their problem. They remain as "evidence".

Obviously, testimony is considered "weak". But when bolstered by footprints, the PG film, historical Native perspective, etc, it builds a case that remains difficult to outright throw out.

It certainly stands in the face of a claim that "there is no evidence".

 

[kitakaze]

It is, however, a not unreasonable hypothesis that HF represents a case of h. erectus undergoing island dwarfing on Flores and other islands in relative isolation. Time will tell.

Something to live for.

I have always found the subject interesting, and I have never felt the need to drag BF into the mix to make it more interesting.

Fascinating. Wonderfully fascinating. In any case, I don't like dragging, it' sounds like hard work. Nevertheless, normal people who don't give a rat's a** about BF and also some who have a lot to lose by admitting so keep seeing something which puts the purely social construct element into doubt.

We have been able to find and identify animals that are physically smaller than BF, with smaller populations than are claimed for BF, in areas far less hospitable than those associated with BF, and in locals far less populated than those associated with BF.

Whose doing the claiming? Do we have an official BF group that is informing us factually of what their population numbers are, and the level of hospitableness (word?) of their locales?How did we find and identify those other animals? Do we have some benevolent project going on that is quickly and neatly scouring the Earth top to bottom to kindly let us know all that has existed therein? I don't think so. That said, BF is reported in the UK, in Malaysia, in Mexico. It's ludicrous. A BF type creature living in a specific environment, such as the PNW, is not. Unlikely, yes. Ludicrous, no.

We cannot, however find BF. This is my point.

We HAVE NOT found BF. That is my point .

 

[Metullus]

*snip*...Whose doing the claiming? Do we have an official BF group that is informing us factually of what their population numbers are, and the level of hospitableness (word?) of their locales?How did we find and identify those other animals? Do we have some benevolent project going on that is quickly and neatly scouring the Earth top to bottom to kindly let us know all that has existed therein? I don't think so. That said, BF is reported in the UK, in Malaysia, in Mexico. It's ludicrous. A BF type creature living in a specific environment, such as the PNW, is not. Unlikely, yes. Ludicrous, no.We HAVE NOT found BF. That is my point .

As for the population claims, you might want to read this thread and this one, particularly the posts of LAL. There you will find a great deal of discussion about BF's habits, population, habitat, familiy life, etc.

There is much discussion as well about the inhospitable nature of alleged BF habitat as reason it has not been discovered by science. My experience both in "BF country" and in other, more remote and less hospitable locales leads me to give these arguments less weight than others might.

 

[UrsulaV]

There is much discussion as well about the inhospitable nature of alleged BF habitat as reason it has not been discovered by science. My experience both in "BF country" and in other, more remote and less hospitable locales leads me to give these arguments less weight than others might.

I still haven't figured out these people claiming the PNW is such a dense and gruelling area. I lived there for ten years, and give me a PNW forest over these southern forests any day. PNW are as open and airy as cathedrals compared to this crap with the kudzu and the wisteria and the dense mats of green.

But I suppose that's another thread, and we'd need to be talking about "Skunk Ape" or whatever it's called down here...

 

[Huntster]

I still haven't figured out these people claiming the PNW is such a dense and gruelling area. I lived there for ten years, and give me a PNW forest over these southern forests any day. PNW are as open and airy as cathedrals compared to this crap with the kudzu and the wisteria and the dense mats of green....

I would much rather the PNW than any subtropical environment, simply because I don't get along well in heat, and I absolutely hate snakes.

However, there are other differences in addition to the density of the foliage:

1) The PNW is not level. The mountains tend to come right up out of the Pacific, get real high real quick, and extend eastward for miles;

2) The amount of rainfall is absolutely amazing. I've seen an average rainstorm in Ketchikan (which averages over 300" {that's 25 feet}per year) where the level, well drained tarmac at the airport was quickly and completely covered with 3" of water, and the rainfall was coming down so hard it was literally spashing upwards two feet after contact with the water on the tarmac;

3) and the combination of temperature and moistness can kill a person (hypothermia) quite quickly.

 

[UrsulaV]

I would much rather the PNW than any subtropical environment, simply because I don't get along well in heat, and I absolutely hate snakes.

Crap, we're agreeing again! (Well, I don't hate snakes, I quite like them, but from a respectful distance.)

The worst thing about moving to the South has been...well, the humidity, actually. But the fiftieth or so worst thing about moving to the South has been the fact that their poisonous snakes don't rattle. I like my poisonous snakes to announce loudly that they are poisonous, I am near them, and they find this upsetting. It is polite of them to do. For one shining moment, the snake and I are in perfect accord. I do not wish to step on the snake, and the snake does not wish to be stepped on.

Here they have all these silent cottonmouths and copperheads and crap that lurk in the kudzu and just wait for some idiot to decide to put in some garden time.

And don't get me started on the bugs. Jesus.

 

[Huntster]

Crap, we're agreeing again!.....

We've gotta stop agreeing like this...............

...Here they have all these silent cottonmouths and copperheads and crap that lurk in the kudzu and just wait for some idiot to decide to put in some garden time.

And don't get me started on the bugs. Jesus....

I'll take the bears, moose, mosquitos, and colder temps any day.

 

[Metullus]

Crap, we're agreeing again! (Well, I don't hate snakes, I quite like them, but from a respectful distance.)

The worst thing about moving to the South has been...well, the humidity, actually. But the fiftieth or so worst thing about moving to the South has been the fact that their poisonous snakes don't rattle. I like my poisonous snakes to announce loudly that they are poisonous, I am near them, and they find this upsetting. It is polite of them to do. For one shining moment, the snake and I are in perfect accord. I do not wish to step on the snake, and the snake does not wish to be stepped on.

Here they have all these silent cottonmouths and copperheads and crap that lurk in the kudzu and just wait for some idiot to decide to put in some garden time.

And don't get me started on the bugs. Jesus.

It is hunting snakes that usually takes me to interesting places. I've always found it ironic that I spend time looking for snakes I want to find that other people stumble upon unhappily.

Where in the south UV?

 

[UrsulaV]

It is hunting snakes that usually takes me to interesting places. I've always found it ironic that I spend time looking for snakes I want to find that other people stumble upon unhappily.

Where in the south UV?

I'm living in North Carolina at the moment, which I am informed is not the Real South, but it's plenty for me. So far, I've only encountered copperheads, which in their defense were actually quite polite little snakes, as long as you stepped back and waited for them to cross the path politely in return. (Well, and rat snakes, of course, but those are pretty cool.) It's the stories that all the natives tell you about How The Water Moccasin Ate My Cousin Jo Bob that are worrisome.

 

[Huntster]

...It's the stories that all the natives tell you about How The Water Moccasin Ate My Cousin Jo Bob that are worrisome.

Did you see some of the photos of cottonmouths after Katrina seeking refuge?

Scary.........

 

[Metullus]

Did you see some of the photos of cottonmouths after Katrina seeking refuge?

Scary.........

I collected 32 of them in 3 hours when I went to Louisiana to eveacuate my mother in the days after Katrina. I relocated a whole garbage can full.

Just doin' my bit for humanity, you know...

 

[LTC8K6]

Like I'd be dumb enough to click on a BFRO link to find evidence.....

 

[Huntster]

Like I'd be dumb enough to click on a BFRO link to find evidence.....

It's there; the good with the bad.

 

[kitakaze]

It's there; the good with the bad.

Not to mention a whole lotta ugly, lately. (sorry Huntster, couldn't resist the set-up.)

I collected 32 of them in 3 hours when I went to Louisiana to eveacuate my mother in the days after Katrina. I relocated a whole garbage can full.

Just doin' my bit for humanity, you know...

You're a trooper Metullus, I have no problem with snakes, a garbage can full of 'em is another story. Not much in the way of snakes here in Tokyo but tsuyu (monsoon) is coming which gets us big yucky toads all over the place to mix it up with the monster rats and cockroaches. God I miss BC.

 

[Huntster]

It's there; the good with the bad.

Not to mention a whole lotta ugly, lately. (sorry Huntster, couldn't resist the set-up.)

Well, forgiven; but you are aware that I put the "ugly" into bigfootery, don't you?

...Not much in the way of snakes here in Tokyo but tsuyu (monsoon) is coming which gets us big yucky toads all over the place to mix it up with the monster rats and cockroaches. God I miss BC..

I don't blame you.

I'd move back.

 

[kitakaze]

Well, forgiven; but you are aware that I put the "ugly" into bigfootery, don't you?

Ya wha? I always thought that was Krantz. Cuz' I mean, come on now...really.

 

[kitakaze]

I remember years back, the first time I saw Krantz. He was appearing in some BF documentary and trying to emulate the infamous Patty turn in an attempt to illustrate the unlikeliness of it being a man in a suit. If that wasn't evidence for a big, weird, hairy, bipedal primate, I don't know what is. Bless the old codger.

 

[Correa Neto]

I'm living in North Carolina at the moment, which I am informed is not the Real South, but it's plenty for me. So far, I've only encountered copperheads, which in their defense were actually quite polite little snakes, as long as you stepped back and waited for them to cross the path politely in return. (Well, and rat snakes, of course, but those are pretty cool.) It's the stories that all the natives tell you about How The Water Moccasin Ate My Cousin Jo Bob that are worrisome.

The real problems with tropical rainforests IMHO are the blood-sucking bugs. Clouds of several species of mosquitoes, flights of mutucas (look like a cross between a fly and a moth) and hordes of ticks. A torture. You have to stay all the time greased with mosquito repellant. And use shirts with long sleeves, despite the heat. The mix of sweat and repellant can be icky.

Spiders can also be a pain,and you must get used to the routine of checking you boots for the regular crab spider...

I find reptiles fascinating. I always instruct the projects' personnel not to kill snakes, what is quite hard for some of them, since hate for these animals is deeply rooted in their culture.