Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[UrsulaV]

Quoting the website bigfoot- dot- org , the point is that it is absurd to keep

saying the PG Film bf is "walking like man" (implying a man in a suit)

when BF likely IS a man, or humanoid, covered with hair, and OF COURSE

will walk like a man. Therefore this walking like man stuff is ust an old canard.

Advanced thinking is hard to find in this biz.




SS

While I realize you've been quite rightly banned, I figure there's at least a 50-50 chance you'll come back with another sock puppet, so I'll address this.

What does this have to do with my original post that you quoted? Did you even bother to read the discussion leading to it? It was about whether a non-human walking like a human would have any impact on currect evolutionary theory. It was not, for once, about whether Patty walked like a guy in a suit, but a largely theoretical discussion about the state of paleoanthropology.

I have this feeling...this sneaking suspicion, if you will...that you just see certain key phrases and they trigger these automatic rants for you. Do you ever actually READ and THINK about other people's posts, or are you running on some kind of freaky stimulus/rantsponse autopilot?

For example, I don't expect you to read or comprehend my post there, either. You'll see a keyword and it'll trigger another auto-rant. I suppose I'm just saying this because I'm in one of those joust-at-the-windmills moods...

 

[Starthinker]

While I realize you've been quite rightly banned, I figure there's at least a 50-50 chance you'll come back with another sock puppet, so I'll address this.

What does this have to do with my original post that you quoted? Did you even bother to read the discussion leading to it? It was about whether a non-human walking like a human would have any impact on currect evolutionary theory. It was not, for once, about whether Patty walked like a guy in a suit, but a largely theoretical discussion about the state of paleoanthropology.

I have this feeling...this sneaking suspicion, if you will...that you just see certain key phrases and they trigger these automatic rants for you. Do you ever actually READ and THINK about other people's posts, or are you running on some kind of freaky stimulus/rantsponse autopilot?

For example, I don't expect you to read or comprehend my post there, either. You'll see a keyword and it'll trigger another auto-rant. I suppose I'm just saying this because I'm in one of those joust-at-the-windmills moods...

It's funny that you should put it this way as on the other forum I put forth the theory that he was indeed a program that just responded to keywords from previous posts with rants followed by random insults from a set list of standard replies. I wish I had copies of some of those threads, it was quite entertaining but just like the direction this thread is taking it detracts from the discussion at hand and rendered the whole hominid section of that forum virtually useless for weeks at a time.

 

[Starthinker]

WOW! I'm psychic! I was just thinking how "quiet" the paranormal bigfoot believers were at cryptozoology.com and when I mentioned that site a few posts up I thought to myself "that may remind someone to start posting there again" and sure enough, it's starting back up again, insults and all. Guess it's time to skip that site's hominid section for a while.

 

[erikbeckjord]

While I realize you've been quite rightly banned, I figure there's at least a 50-50 chance you'll come back with another sock puppet, so I'll address this.

What does this have to do with my original post that you quoted? Did you even bother to read the discussion leading to it? It was about whether a non-human walking like a human would have any impact on currect evolutionary theory. It was not, for once, about whether Patty walked like a guy in a suit, but a largely theoretical discussion about the state of paleoanthropology.

I have this feeling...this sneaking suspicion, if you will...that you just see certain key phrases and they trigger these automatic rants for you. Do you ever actually READ and THINK about other people's posts, or are you running on some kind of freaky stimulus/rantsponse autopilot?

For example, I don't expect you to read or comprehend my post there, either. You'll see a keyword and it'll trigger another auto-rant. I suppose I'm just saying this because I'm in one of those joust-at-the-windmills moods...

I read both posts, and imho, you miss the basic point that snce BF appears to be not zoological but something else, that evolutionary theory does not
enter into the equation, nor paleoanthropology.

Dr. Jack

 

[erikbeckjord]

Bigfoot lying on tracks to get hit

It's funny that you should put it this way as on the other forum I put forth the theory that he was indeed a program that just responded to keywords from previous posts with rants followed by random insults from a set list of standard replies. I wish I had copies of some of those threads, it was quite entertaining but just like the direction this thread is taking it detracts from the discussion at hand and rendered the whole hominid section of that forum virtually useless for weeks at a time.

FYI, I asked, and Beckjord says he never posted any such nonsense.

Others may log on using his name, or making you THINK it is him, but even he is not that dumb as to use that posting. On cz.com, I assume.

Dr Jack

 

[hellaeon]

man why is it that all the conspiracy nutcakes always have such POOR websites. It just emphasises that no matter what they just dont get it, whatever it may be.

Man making a half decent site aint THAT hard god damn it.

Nice claims cedric, shapeshifters? invisible aliens? some people do anything for attention and to get in the limelight. Sad really.

 

[hellaeon]

hahaha i just had a look over the website....hahahaha gold....I love the faces of nicole simpson etc and the fantastic artistic depictions showing you where to look hahaha

hahahaha
your pretty funny Ceddy.

 

[Darat]

erikbeckjord again re-registered under another name which would be against the Membership Agreement even he he hadn't already been banned for other reasons. I have split most of the junk and trivial stuff that was generated by his dishonest tactics. I would suggest to Members that if you again think you have spotted an account dishonestly created by him you just use the report feature or drop a PM to a member of the Mod Team rather then engaging with him. It will save me time in removing his garbage.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: darat

 

[kitakaze]

This is my first time time joining an internet forum of any kind so please have patience with the obviousness of it. Since around 2003 I've been a regular reader of the bff.com as I've had a lifelong interest in the bigfoot/sasquatch phenomena. I was raised in Victoria, BC, where BF is in whatever manner woven into our local culture as it is elsewhere in the PNW. Undeniably, as it would be to many children, the creature aspect of BF was the initial attraction. However, I have always regarded myself as naturally a critical thinker and have always found difficulties with the plausibility of an North American bipedal hominid/whatever your thinking would define it as - type animal thus far escaping our attentions and falling in line with the rest . That being said, I will admit, forthright, I do wish such an animal to exist. As a child yes, for the fantastical elements of such a belief. But now, it seems to me upon careful consideration as a person who would generally (that's another discussion) define myself as an atheist that, were an animal such as BF to be proven to exist, it would present an undeniable query to the essence of many religious beliefs. If this odd species of ours is divinity manifest then what's a BF? Take 1? Faith shaker-upper-tester? It's most likely irrelevant to you if think BF (possibly, probably, ...sigh, semantics) exists. You will find the slippery gambler's odds as to how it might be. It's really smart, really sneaky, really rare, yada yada. Nevertheless, the phenomenom is there. What bugs me is not Patterson this, Skookum that. It's when a psychologist from Alaska in Oregon on holiday with his family in a national park sees some BF's watching his family whilst he has a poo uphill in the bush or absolutely random soccer mom says she saw a big walking gorilla ambling up the ditch on 1-90 (whatever). This is where I hope to get some education in critical thinking from the members here and not some bullspit echoing of it's unlikeliness as proof. In the meantime, I ask this- New Jersey? Malaysia? BC? Florida? Throw me a bone! (No pun, no pun.)

 

[RayG]

But now, it seems to me upon careful consideration as a person who would generally (that's another discussion) define myself as an atheist that, were an animal such as BF to be proven to exist, it would present an undeniable query to the essence of many religious beliefs.

Even if a bigfoot body were discovered tomorrow, I don't see any religious connections. Can you elaborate?

RayG

 

[trvlr2]

Kitakaze, consider this: I was raised in Florida,USA. Ingrained in the local culture are Santa Claus,Tooth Fairy,and Easter Bunny. I have never seen any of them. Pretty much, my elders have admitted that they are hoaxes. I certainly wish they were real. However, they are not real.
This in no way spoils their traditions for me.

Quoting Kat.-" I was raised in Victoria, BC, where BF is in whatever manner woven into our local culture as it is elsewhere in the PNW. Undeniably

 

[bruto]

Even if a bigfoot body were discovered tomorrow, I don't see any religious connections. Can you elaborate?

RayG

I think the sentence that follows is the key, and it does present an intersting quandary for some religious beliefs, if I get his drift. If humans are special in the divine order of things, and everything else is just an animal, where does a bigfoot fit in if it turns out to be more like a person than an ape? And where does the anti-evolutionist put it in the grand scheme of things?

Welcome to the fray, Kitakaze. I feel about Champ a little as you do about bigfoot. I don't really think it's out there, but I'd love to be proved wrong. And I'd sure love to be the one to get the first good shot! I rarely go anywhere these days without a camera with a telephoto lens, especially since there have been some putative panther sightings recently in Vermont, and the wildlife folks are pooh-poohing it because nobody has gotten a good picture. Fame and fortune (ok, maybe a moment's notice and a free Chinese lunch...) awaits the lucky dude who gets the first good snap of either Champ or a confirmed catamount.

 

[RayG]

I think the sentence that follows is the key, and it does present an intersting quandary for some religious beliefs, if I get his drift. If humans are special in the divine order of things, and everything else is just an animal, where does a bigfoot fit in if it turns out to be more like a person than an ape? And where does the anti-evolutionist put it in the grand scheme of things?

Assuming it's classified as something like the 'missing-link' of course. (without a body there's a problem classifying it as ANYTHING however).

And, as much as I'd like a solution to this mystery, I'm pretty certain I won't live to see one. I'm even doubtful my grandchildren's grandchildren will see it solved.

If I live long enough to eat crow, so be it! I've got a hinged jaw, see -->

RayG

 

[kitakaze]

Well to those who are truly devout in their faith the discovery of a bigfoot body would probably be little harder to ignore/deny than would all the paleoanthropological evidence detailing our evolution. But in line with finding a bigfoot corpse let's say we find Homo Floresiensis alive and well under the guise of orang pendek or ebu gobo in some remote corner of some island in the rough vicinity of Flores (which I think is not totally unconsiderable). At that point the scientific world is astounded and promptly begins to tackle the discovery while the general public picks their collective jaw off the floor and becomes equally fascinated with it and thats when I think the faithful would start having to do some toe-work as to where it all fits in and also what it means to themselves individually.

 

[kitakaze]

Thank you for the welcome bruto. Though I now live in Tokyo, in Victoria, BC we're in no shortage of aquatic cryptids with Caddy puportedly in the the surrounding bays and straits and Ogopogo in the Okanagan. Interesting, for sure. I guess sasquatch as it's described is particularily interesting to me in its (relative, speculative) closeness to humanity. Cheers.

 

[Huntster]

Well to those who are truly devout in their faith the discovery of a bigfoot body would probably be little harder to ignore/deny than would all the paleoanthropological evidence detailing our evolution......

As a faithful Catholic, I have no problem whatsoever with evolution.

I simply don't believe that the evolution of species (as it is commonly viewed by secularists or athiests) has much to do with man's creation as a spiritual being.

... But in line with finding a bigfoot corpse let's say we find Homo Floresiensis alive and well under the guise of orang pendek or ebu gobo in some remote corner of some island in the rough vicinity of Flores (which I think is not totally unconsiderable). At that point the scientific world is astounded and promptly begins to tackle the discovery while the general public picks their collective jaw off the floor and becomes equally fascinated with it...

Yup. The "scientific world" and the sheep they've been indocrinating will be in for some change, won't they?

Sort of like what the Church went through with Galileo and Copernicus......

... and thats when I think the faithful would start having to do some toe-work as to where it all fits in and also what it means to themselves individually.

Some of us have already figured that out for ourselves.

 

[kitakaze]

trvlr2,
Excuse me while I get the hang of quoting. I think it's pretty much a given that throughout Canada and America that we're familiar from childhood on whatever level with Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny. I would like to ask, did it take your elders admission to discover their fictionality? I would hope and assume that you could have eventually figured it out on your own. You say that you'd certainly like them to exist and I respect the sentiment, but let's think, do you really want them to? If sasquatches were identified to exist as they are most commonly described - an elusive, large bipedal primate - I don't think it would take much leg work for any true skeptic to eat crow and fit it into the paradigm of accepted truth. I think it's lamentable that many BF advocates seem more on a mission to serve crow to those they deem as 'skoftics' than to approach the question in a balanced manner. On the other hand, if tomorrow Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny were to give a joint press conference I think I'd find my world view would be greatly in distress because I would then have to take into account all the things about them that clearly defy the laws of nature. Maybe I'm being presumptuous but it seems to me that no good skeptic refutes BF as being in defiance of the laws of nature but as being improbable given the what we know of our world and a lack of sufficient evidence. That said, improbable and lacking evidence is not the criteria I would hope that we use to judge what does and does not exist but as relevant to the attention and resources we devote to the establishment thereof.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think the faithful would start having to do some toe-work as to where it all fits in and also what it means to themselves individually.

Yes, all of those footers who have turned out to be way off on bigfoot would indeed have some work to do to repair their credibility.

 

[LTC8K6]

For instance, I think Meldrum is nuts with his midtarsal break ideas. He is going to look pretty damn silly if bigfoot has no such foot.

I won't look nearly as bad if I am wrong, since I am not an "expert" and less is expected of me. It's expected that I probably do not know what I am talking about. Meldrum dismisses me for that very reason, in fact.

Bigfoot's discovery will almost certainly be a bigger tragedy for some believers than for most skeptics, imo.

Most skeptics correctly take the default position that it simply hasn't been proven to exist. A body or other proof merely provides what we wanted.

Even a quick look over some bigfoot sites will show that many believers have taken a little info and run a very long way with it..... A body or other proof is likely going to leave many of these sites with a lot of revising to do.

 

[kitakaze]

Hunster,
First let me say it is a pleasure to exchange ideas with you. Over the last few years of following (but regrettably not contributing to) the BFF I have gained a respect for your input and ideas as I have RayG, Tube, and a few others. That being said, I'm fascinated (sincerely) by the fact that neither BF nor evolution interfere with your faith. Since I was a young child (8-9yrs old) until I was a young adult (23-24 yrs old) I studied and even practiced more than a few religions mostly with the desire to absorb some of their key wisdoms and often as a young critical thinker to lock horns with propundents. Here is neither the place or time, I guess, to offer the results of that. However, it seems especially of late or maybe just here that your railing against "the scientific world" does not further the position that you expend (some, little?) effort to put forward. You mention Copernicus and Galileo. Do you think in X years we'll hear the rally cry of, "Krantz/Meldrum was right, dude. He was riiiight!" Maybe not exactly those words but you get the drift. You believe BF does/may exist. You've seen tracks which you believe were made by BF as have I, but which to me in hindsight is irrelevant to the greater question of BF's existence. Though I assume as a given we'd both dearly love to, neither of us has ever actually seen a BF nor have we anything in the way of irrefutable evidence of its existence. For you, as you've said, you've figured it out for yourself BF's existence and how it fits in with your beliefs. I'm not sure if I envy that, which is also irrelevant, but for now I'm just chewing on the existence part.