Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[LTC8K6]

Meldrum accepts the track that Chilcutt ruled a fake, as if it were real. He even excuses signs of hoaxing as normal....

He also notes what sounds like the casting artifacts described by Tube. I wonder if Meldrum will ever mention the possibility?

You'd think Meldrum had no idea who Freeman is....

Q&A with Dr. Meldrum about this article

Q: The article mentions a track that Chilcutt determined was fake. What is the origin of that track?

A: The "fake" element was overstated by the reporters. It was one of Freeman's casts from Elk Wallow (if memory serves me, but I will check the location name).

There was evidence of contamination by human fingerprints in the toe region. The question remains whether this was intentional or not.

There seems to be a natural inclination to touch tracks, brush away debris, or even embellish an indistinct spot. One of the toes clearly had a triple strike, in that the core pattern of a fingertip (human appearing ridge texture) was repeated down the length of the toe. This may have been done by Freeman or any of the numerous other individuals who examined the tracks prior to their casting.

What the reporter failed to mention was that along the margins of the foot there were examples of the distinct coarse textured ridges trending parallel to the margins of the foot! So it is not unreasonable to conclude that a legitimate footprint was literally "touched up" in the toe region.

Dr. Jeff Meldrum
Associate Professor of Anatomy and Anthropology
Idaho State University
Affiliate Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology
Idaho Museum of Natural History

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=303

 

[Correa Neto]

I see the paper Dr. Meldrum is presenting is dated 10/04..

That means it was published before Dr. Tube did his research that showed the ' pressure ridges ' associated with the mid-tarsal break, occur naturally in human footprints also, under certain conditions..


I trust his next paper will include this information...

I can't believe he put frames from PGF in that paper...

I also note that there's no mention to the obvious diferences in the morphological diferences that can be seen once we compare real feet with midtarsal breaks (his figure 1 b shows one) with the fakeries (like those shown at his figures 5 and 6). Compare the casts shown at figures 5 and 6 with the feet shown at figure 1. The foot from figure 1a has no midtarsal break, but clearly provides a better match for the alleged bigfeet footprints (actually fakeries IMHO) than the foot from figure 1b. Check finger positions and morphology. No matches in the last case.

Tube, IMHO is at the right path, since he performs tests to anwer some basic questions, such as:
"Can the prints be hoaxed?"
"Can the pressure ridges be created without a midtarsal break?"
and so on.

Most of the other footers just stick to their dogmas and wishfull thinking.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

So it is not unreasonable to conclude that a legitimate footprint was literally "touched up" in the toe region.

And he doesn't have a problem with that ? !

 

[bruto]

If bigfoot is confirmed, and Patty can't possibly be one, what will folks make of the PGF?

My guess is that some footers would just go ahead and say tha Patty is a different species or race of bigfoot. If this thread is any indication, even non-wacko believers like Lu would still find a way to excuse the fraud, by pointing out that BF was real, and the fraudsters were just frustrated by the skeptics, trying to jar the scientific community into taking it seriously.

The PGF is immortal. If you found the original, and the edited portions showed the suit being zipped on, someone would still find a way to spin it in bigfoot's favor.

 

[LTC8K6]

Looking at the video of Patty's tracks, I note that they are in a straight line.

This is why in LMS they invent that weird swinging, cross legged walk for Patty....

IMO, that video of the tracks proves that they weren't made by Patty. I don't think there is any way that Patty's prints can be in a straight line.

Unless you invent some weird walk that doesn't show in the film....

 

[Skeptical Greg]

My guess is that some footers would just go ahead and say tha Patty is a different species or race of bigfoot. If this thread is any indication, even non-wacko believers like Lu would still find a way to excuse the fraud, by pointing out that BF was real, and the fraudsters were just frustrated by the skeptics, trying to jar the scientific community into taking it seriously.

The PGF is immortal. If you found the original, and the edited portions showed the suit being zipped on, someone would still find a way to spin it in bigfoot's favor.

Of course.. The suit was obviously modeled after a real Bigfoot...

 

[Correa Neto]

Now you are getting and not-getting it. You are and are not learning to doublethink, citizen.

 

[LTC8K6]

You can see the "Ministry of Silly Walks" stuff here. It's ridiculous, imo.

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/video/meldrum2.ram

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Looking at the video of Patty's tracks, I note that they are in a straight line.

This is why in LMS they invent that weird swinging, cross legged walk for Patty....

IMO, that video of the tracks proves that they weren't made by Patty. I don't think there is any way that Patty's prints can be in a straight line.

Unless you invent some weird walk that doesn't show in the film....

Has anyone pointed out what segment of the movie that trackway represents ?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

You can see the "Ministry of Silly Walks" stuff here. It's ridiculous, imo.

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/video/meldrum2.ram

That is included on LMS... The same recreation that is 5' 7" ...

Notice the knee fully locks in more than one step .. How could that be, when a non-locking knee is a distinctive characteristic of the gait ?

Again, Meldrum skips over the stuff that doesn't fit..

 

[LTC8K6]

Has anyone pointed out what segment of the movie that trackway represents ?

Or why it appears to have been taken in twilight and why casts are already poured? Didn't they film the tracks and then go back for the plaster?

Let me consult the various versions of events......

 

[Huntster]

If bigfoot is confirmed, and Patty can't possibly be one, what will folks make of the PGF?

That it was a hoax.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
The act of seeking good cover, then stopping to watch intruders from that cover, is a behavior that I have seen repeatedly, and many times, by both brown bears and black bears. When encounters with bears weren't of the close, disturbing variety, I'd say that this behavior occurred nearly 90% of the time I encountered a bear in the woods, on the railroad tracks, or on lonely roads (not busy, active highways).

Huntster, I'm not familiar with bears at all, do they ever exhibit 'stalking' behavior?....

Yes, most certainly. It is very common behavior, and it occurs (I believe) initially out of curiosity. That curiosity (again, I believe) is primarily driven by the nature of predation. They want to see if what they sense is available food or not. I also believe that they are just sometimes curious as in, "What the hell is that?"

...I ask this because I had an experience, late at night, many years ago, where something in the bush followed along as a friend and I strolled down a dark, deserted road. Whenever we stopped, it stopped, whenever we walked, it walked, This went on four or five times, and then whatever was making the noise, crossed the road and was now on the OTHER side, in the bush, behaving in the same manner. Some have suggested squatch behave this way, though I've never entertained that thought. I never got a firm answer about bears when I questioned some locals, do you think a bear would have crossed the road behind us like that?....

Oh, yes. That sounds, again, like classic bear behavior.

The moose we harvested last year was under similar circumstances. We saw him from the boat, and he retreated into the brush. We called (grunted) at him, and figured the bull would circle around to get our scent. Sure enough, the bull emerged from the brush downwind of us and crossed the stream to get a scent/peek.

Stephen Herrero (IMO, the best and most realist bear biologist out there) has great advice for folks regarding bear encounters. Among his advice is to never run away from them in fear, thus behaving like prey. That rewards the bears predatory curiosity, and confirms to the bear that you're dinner.

Your experience mirrors many "sasquatch" reports of being followed. If there isn't visual confirmation of the stalker being a sasquatch (or other evidence like non-bear footprints), I dismiss them all as likely being a bear.

 

[Huntster]

...The PGF is immortal. If you found the original, and the edited portions showed the suit being zipped on, someone would still find a way to spin it in bigfoot's favor.

That's very true.

However it's also true that human induced ideological spin goes both clockwise and counter-clockwise, doesn't it?

 

[Correa Neto]

You can see the "Ministry of Silly Walks" stuff here. It's ridiculous, imo.

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/video/meldrum2.ram

*sigh*
People from Latin America or Europe will quickly recognize what's Patty was doing. It's soccer, she's rolling a ball with her feet while walking. The logs in the foreground avoid you to see the ball, and it's too light to leave any impression on the sand. Bigfeet play soccer!

That's the official history from now on. Doublethink and carry on, citizens.

 

[Correa Neto]

Huntster, I'm not familiar with bears at all, do they ever exhibit 'stalking' behavior?

I ask this because I had an experience, late at night, many years ago, where something in the bush followed along as a friend and I strolled down a dark, deserted road. Whenever we stopped, it stopped, whenever we walked, it walked, This went on four or five times, and then whatever was making the noise, crossed the road and was now on the OTHER side, in the bush, behaving in the same manner. Some have suggested squatch behave this way, though I've never entertained that thought. I never got a firm answer about bears when I questioned some locals, do you think a bear would have crossed the road behind us like that? I haven't ruled out the possibility it was a couple humans playing us for a prank, but nobody ever came forward, and it was VERY dark.

RayG

RayG, would you mind answering a few questions?

(1) Have you ever actually seen that something crossed the road or you suppose something crossed the road because the noise was now heard coming from a diferent place?
(2) If the answer to the above question was "no, I have not actually seen something crossing the road", don't you think thres a possibility that you were listening to the echoes of you own noises?

Note that if it was an animal stalking you, it was not exactly good at stealth.

Note that even if you actually saw something crossing the road, it might not have been a bear, since that dogs can act like this.

 

[RayG]

RayG, would you mind answering a few questions?

Not at all.

(1) Have you ever actually seen that something crossed the road or you suppose something crossed the road because the noise was now heard coming from a diferent place?

No, never actually caught a glimpse of anything, and have always entertained the possibility it was just a couple buddies trying to pull a prank. However, nobody ever came forward, we were walking on a paved road (so all the twig snapping would be hard to explain).

(2) If the answer to the above question was "no, I have not actually seen something crossing the road", don't you think thres a possibility that you were listening to the echoes of you own noises?

No, because these weren't 'footsteps', but it was instead the snapping of twigs and rustling of the underbrush to our left. Eventually the sound of snapping twigs and underbrush started up to our right.

Note that if it was an animal stalking you, it was not exactly good at stealth.

True, I've been involved in night-time military exercises, and this didn't sound like it was making any attempt to keep quiet.

Note that even if you actually saw something crossing the road, it might not have been a bear, since that dogs can act like this.

I'm pretty good at moving quietly myself, but I was surprised that whatever it was had seemed to have crossed the road and was now on our right instead of our left. Unless, of course, there were two individuals, but if that's the case, the one on our left never moved again.

RayG

 

[Huntster]

RayG, would you mind answering a few questions?

(1) Have you ever actually seen that something crossed the road or you suppose something crossed the road because the noise was now heard coming from a diferent place?
(2) If the answer to the above question was "no, I have not actually seen something crossing the road", don't you think thres a possibility that you were listening to the echoes of you own noises?

Note that if it was an animal stalking you, it was not exactly good at stealth.....

I think this is a good example of someone who would describe themselves as a skeptic or critical thinker second-guessing someone who had an actual experience.

Even had Ray stated that he had seen the bear, there would have been doubt.

It is suggested that it was an echo.

Note that if it was an animal stalking you, it was not exactly good at stealth

Bears in the brush sometimes aren’t much concerned with stealth. They're satisfied with the visual concealment that the vegetation provides. The noise they make can often be considered body language. Making noise can communicate.

 

[LTC8K6]

The bear in the home video I mentioned earlier was very good at stalking. There was no doubt that the human was the prey, and the bear was experienced. The bear actually outwits the guy.

Huntster, have you seen Grizzly Man? Just curious.

 

[LTC8K6]

RayG, your experience sounds kinda like a cougar...except that you heard it.