Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film
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LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
LAL
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William Parcher said:
Two things (among others) about this "Patty" footprint seem contrary to what would be expected if it were real.
There seems to be no effect from a push-off of a real walking foot in damp sand. The imprint is very sharp and precisely outlines each toe. The ridge of sand that filled the gap between the toes and the ball seems too perfect to be true. Patty was supposed to be engaged in a brisk walk while fleeing P&G. Why is there no smudging or distortion of any part of the track?
Also, according to Gimlin, this track was subjected to heavy rain before he rode on horseback to the site to cover it with bark. Why are the ridges and the tiny cracks in them so perfect? Wouldn't a hard rain on moist sand smooth out the sharp edges and cracks of this track?
She wasn't fleeing. She strolled away, evidently unafraid.
It started raining hard at the camp, but he doesn't say what it was doing at the site when he rode back. The trackway was still in pretty good shape nine days later when Bob Titmus examined it. This track was photographed next day by Lyle Laverty. I can see marks from rain.
Gimlin answers some of the questions about what was on the film and it being changed here:
"The film footage that you see [the Patterson film] is what was acquired from that particular sighting in the few seconds that we had film to take pictures with. . .and then Roger ran out of film in the camera. The reason for him running out of film was. . as we were riding up there, we just took our time and fooled around. It was in the fall of the year, the maple trees were turning red and it was kind of pretty and Roger was taking pictures of me riding up the canyons, pictures of the trees and photographing the surrounding areas. So when this all happened, he didn’t have much film left in the camera unfortunately. Of course, some of it was kind of blurry because he was running across the creek to get a better view, - a closer view of the creature in a better way and get more pictures of it. When he did run out of film, why naturally it was one of those old cameras, that he had to get under a poncho to change film.
We went to catch his horse and the pack horse because I kept my horse under control. I had my horse with me all the time. So we caught his horse, got the new film out of the saddle bags, he got under this old poncho and changed the film around. Then we tried to track the creature on up from where we had last seen it. We didn’t have much luck doing it. Then we decided it was getting late in the afternoon. In that area, that time of year, the sun goes down about 3:30 or 4 o’clock. We wanted to get back and take plaster casts of the tracks and then go on into town to see if we had anything on film. We weren’t sure from Roger stumbling and falling down on the sand bar and getting up and running, ..we didn’t even have an idea that we had anything on film at that time...in fact it was doubtful that we did have anything.
Green: So you cast the tracks the same day?
Gimlin: Yes we did. In fact right that afternoon. By the time we got the tracks cast and the different deals that we did to cast the tracks done, it was getting late. It was almost dark by the time we got back down to the truck and got the horses fed and tied up. By the time we got into town at Al Hodgson’s store, it was good and dark. I imagine it was about 8:30 or 9 o’clock. Then we went on over to...[reflecting]… oh whatever town that was to mail the film up to Al de Atley, Roger’s brother-in-law, so he could take it and get it developed to see if there was really anything on the film.
Okay, I’ll go back a little bit to the casting of the tracks. I rode the big horse. The horse that I was riding was around 1200-1300 pounds. I rode him along side the tracks with this new film in the camera, Roger took pictures of how deep the horse’s prints were in the soil compared to the creature’s tracks. Then I got up on a stump which was approximately 3 to 4 feet, you know? We didn’t measure it, probably should have. Anyway I jumped off with a high heel boot as close to the track as we could. Then we took pictures of that to illustrate the depth that my foot print went into the same dirt with a high heel cowboy boot and at that time I weighed 165 pounds. These were all things that we did prior to leaving the scene. It was a good thing we did, because that night when we came back, ..’course we were pretty excited about just seeing it and we sat there and talked about it until about 12:30 or one o’clock in the morning.
Around 5:30 a.m. or so it started raining and it was just a pouring down rain. I told Roger we better get up and do something about the tracks or they’d wash out, and he said no, it would stop raining after a while. I went ahead and got up, put the saddle on my horse and decided I would ride up there while it was raining really hard and Roger says "ah it’ll quit, don’t ride up there." I said "no, I’m going to go ahead and ride on up there." I had gotten a couple of cardboard boxes from Mr. Hodgson’s to cover these tracks the night before. So when I went outside to get a couple of these boxes that were folded up out there, they were just soggy old pieces of cardboard. I disregarded taking those back up there - so I rode back up to the scene, pulled some bark off some trees and covered up the tracks as best I could and went back to camp.
By then we decided it wasn’t going to quit raining. The little creek that was six or seven feet across was now ten or twelve feet across and four feet deep! We were on the side of the creek which had to be crossed with the truck to get out to the main road. I said "well I’m going to go ahead and cross the creek with the truck and get started out." And of course Roger thought it would stop raining and he suggested I leave him there and come back and pick him up.
In the meantime, why ah...they had called the track-dog people in Canada and they were supposed to come down. I think they had also phoned you, Mr. Green and René Dahinden. I’m not sure when all that happened but I do remember the people in Canada had been called with the track-dogs to come on down to see if we could track it up on through the mountains from where we last saw it."
http://www.bigfootencounters.com/interviews/john.htm
Gimlin was not only cut out of the proceeds, he was never reimbursed for his expenses on the trip. If anyone had reason to expose a hoax, Gimlin did, but he's never wavered. Neither did Patterson.
Note the intention was to track it with dogs.
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
Well, a gap of several days could indeed explain why the ridges in the photo might not have been there when a cast was taken.
Patterson only cast a couple of tracks, the rest were not cast for several days as I understand it.
Of course this varies somewhat among the accounts.
Patterson only cast a couple of tracks, the rest were not cast for several days as I understand it.
Of course this varies somewhat among the accounts.
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Bigfoot, the only creature on planet earth that cannot be tracked by dogs. Nobody knows why. It's just true..
I wonder why Patterson never went back to Bluff Creek to look for Patty?
Could it possibly be because he knew she wasn't there ?
LAL
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Diogenes said:
Where are you getting that bit of nonsense? Many dogs have been reported to have the same sort of response to a creature in the area - sheer terror.
He toured with the film and his brother-in-law for awhile.
Could it possibly be because he died?
If the film was a hoax he had to have been the perpetrator. Why didn't he just do it again when the money was running out? He spent the last of it on a wild goose chase to Tibet on a report a Yeti was being held in a monastary.
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Some of the expert analysation of the PGF over at BFF..
Badly damaged ? I'll say.. Is that a hang nail on the little finger ? ( resisting urge to use laughing dog smiley )
William Parcher
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Diogenes said:
Wait til you get to analyzing her right hand. It is hyperdefined in some stills and seems missing or blunted in others.
"First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is." Donovan
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
Looks like a gang sign flash to me...
Come on Lu!
Even you would balk at believing that Patterson was lucky enough to have filmed Patty twice.
Wouldn't you????
Come on Lu!
Even you would balk at believing that Patterson was lucky enough to have filmed Patty twice.
Wouldn't you????
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
There aren't any? I must be mistaken....
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
And this one ..
Sorry, could no longer resist..
P.S.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but for some reason that face looks familiar..
Sorry, could no longer resist..
P.S.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but for some reason that face looks familiar..
William Parcher
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LTC8K6 said:
I want to talk about this again. LAL did not answer a question I posted earlier. Did Roger Patterson receive a salary from the organization American National (or something like that) to hunt for Bigfoot after filming the PGF? How did Patterson pay any of his living expenses after the PGF? How much money did Argosy pay Patterson for the PGF stuff? Is there any substance to the citation of Patterson "having a suitcase full of cash and throwing it around in a hotel room" after being paid by Argosy? Did Patterson receive any money for each time that the PGF was shown on any media venue (television and motion picture film theater "shorts")?
LAL, can you explain the details of "when the money was running out" after Patterson presented the PGF to the world?
LAL
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LTC8K6 said:
How do you know what I would do?
If he pulled a hoax he would have still have had the suit that he didn't have the money to build but must have built himself because he had some talent and Bob Heironimus said so, although his family didn't notice. Why use it only once?
With the success of the first film, why not a sequel? De Atley complained that interest died down because of the Minnesota Iceman. Wouldn't a new film have revived their business?
Of course, if there never was a suit.............
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
It's reasonable to think he had to destroy the suit or the hoax could be revealed and he'd be in a lot of trouble.
Without the suit, even BH's story is just a story. Even if BH is telling the truth, only the suit would validate it. Destroy the suit and no one can prove the the P/G film is a hoax. Forever.
Use the suit again and you risk being discovered, either in the act, through having to let more people in on the secret, or through something revealed in the analysis of the second film.
The only thing that can truly discredit the P/G film is the suit, if it exists.
That was quite a sentence, btw.
LAL
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William Parcher said:
I didn't see it.
No. Patterson and De Atley formed a company, but I don't recall the exact name. They didn't do any "hunting". They did a tour with the film.
I don't know about the Argosy part, but he and De Atley evidently were throwing money in the air in a hotel room. The money was from public showings. De Atley said he only made about $75,000 off the film.
I don't know how often it was shown on TV while he was still alive. Dahinden bought Gimlin's share for a reported $26, then spent a lot getting things straightened out (Roger had oversold rights). The film was tied up in copyright disputes for years. With Dahinden's death, Patricia Patterson evidently owns the rights now.
As I mentioned in another post, De Atley claimed the attention the Iceman recieved hurt the tour. I don't have Long's book on hand, but it contains an interview with De Ately about this.
Starrman
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