Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[westprog]

Just missing the terms/phrases "misogynist" "tone troll" "concern troll" "check your privilege" "bad faith"...and a ton of cussin' to get there all the way.

It's funny to be discussing issues like this without constant digression and diatribes. I don't think that anyone ever addressed any substantial point on A+. Either it's empty self-congratulation, or it's trying to sideline disagreement in some way, with spurious bans and linkmaze and redirects. This may not be an outstanding discussion, but people are able to make points and debate issues.

 

[dasmiller]

It's funny to be discussing issues like this without constant digression and diatribes. I don't think that anyone ever addressed any substantial point on A+. Either it's empty self-congratulation, or it's trying to sideline disagreement in some way, with spurious bans and linkmaze and redirects. This may not be an outstanding discussion, but people are able to make points and debate issues.

You know, I was thinking the same thing. In my limited readings on A+, this sort of discussion would have quickly devolved into personal accusations (privilege, tone-trolling, "you just don't get it," closet misogyny, etc) suggestions demands that various posters read huge archived threads, etc. Hyperbole, ad homs, and strawman attacks are tolerated and perhaps even encouraged, which IMO severely limits how productive a discussion can be.

While I don't doubt that the A+ moderation approach was established with the best of intentions, I think that JREF's moderation approach would work better for A+ even though the JREF forum and A+ have substantially different priorities.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Outside of discussing trans issues specifically, why would they?

Again, I could be completely missing the point here, but I don't understand why someone who is trans would bring it up in any discussions that were not about them being trans or about trans issues.

I think part of the problem is that for some people, every issue is a trans issue.

This is a problem with people in general, not trans per se. We all probably know a couple of these people. Even if the conversation has to be derailed right through a schoolhouse, they will make sure it's about them and their issues, whatever that happens to be.

 

[marsattacksgirl]

One phrase A+ers use that confuses me is the label 'intersectional feminist'. Does anyone get this?

To the best of my understanding, intersectionality is a critical theory concept representing a threshold of multiple forms of oppression. But if they're intersectional fems, doesn't that prioritize one aspect of identity over another, or at least make it more salient? In doing so, they ignore the concerns of other groups and how they intersect. Isn't this contradictory, or am I missing something? Does their claim of this style of 'activism' give them license to problematic or offensive behavior in another direction?

 

[Hokulele]

My point was not against 'Ms'; I use it all the time in correspondence. It is a term which has a place. My issue is with the term "Madelle" which did not have a reason to exist. Generally, "Madame" is used for women either married or not. If I use the term "Mademoiselle" on a 50yo women, it would be equivalent as using 'spinster' in English.

Ah, I did misunderstand. Thank you for clarifying.

And to the larger discussion of whether cis- gender terms are useful or necessary, all I can say is I wish I had known of them back in the day.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I think part of the problem is that for some people, every issue is a trans issue.

This is a problem with people in general, not trans per se. We all probably know a couple of these people. Even if the conversation has to be derailed right through a schoolhouse, they will make sure it's about them and their issues, whatever that happens to be.

I think I know what you mean. I can understand people's sensitivity to certain issues because hell, trans people are treated differently, some even killed, and the pervasiveness of this transphobia is such that I can see why they might be on edge about it.

 

[WillyWonka]

I think part of the problem is that for some people, every issue is a trans issue.

This is a problem with people in general, not trans per se. We all probably know a couple of these people. Even if the conversation has to be derailed right through a schoolhouse, they will make sure it's about them and their issues, whatever that happens to be.

I think that trans have specific issues that are unique to them. My comments were that I did not agree with the proposed solution. I always look at these issues as human right issues that need to be treated within the whole society through education, understanding and other countermeasures.

 

[WillyWonka]

It's funny to be discussing issues like this without constant digression and diatribes. I don't think that anyone ever addressed any substantial point on A+. Either it's empty self-congratulation, or it's trying to sideline disagreement in some way, with spurious bans and linkmaze and redirects. This may not be an outstanding discussion, but people are able to make points and debate issues.

I think this is because not everyone is always right or wrong. If people are willing to learn, change their point of view or accept other people point of views as valid as theirs, and willing to agree to disagree, then you can create an interesting dynamic discussion. Otherwise, well, you get A+ forum.

 

[westprog]

I think this is because not everyone is always right or wrong. If people are willing to learn, change their point of view or accept other people point of views as valid as theirs, and willing to agree to disagree, then you can create an interesting dynamic discussion. Otherwise, well, you get A+ forum.

They keep up this "tone troll" absurdity without realising how destabilising the insults are. They think that they can make vitriolic comments about people without it turning into an argument about insults. However, I don't think it's a mistake. I think that they are genuinely uncomfortable with disagreement, even implied. They consider it a hostile act.

I can see this, up to a point. When someone says "I want you imprisoned for what you do in the privacy of your bedroom", it's hard to regard that as an abstract debating point. However, they view any failure to toe the line as the same kind of attack.

 

[Humes fork]

I'm mostly interested how Myers' reputation will survive this. He has been involved with Dawkins (they both went to see Expelled! together) and I got the impression that they are friends. That is not at all strange, as they are both biologists, opponents of creationism, as well as outspoken atheists and antitheists. How will it evolve, given how much vitriol many plussers have against Dawkins?

McCreight has left the ship, Watson has kept her distance to their movement, Dillahunty was excommunicated. Apart from them, what prominent (by Internet measures at least) people were even associated with this club?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I'm mostly interested how Myers' reputation will survive this. He has been involved with Dawkins (they both went to see Expelled! together) and I got the impression that they are friends. That is not at all strange, as they are both biologists, opponents of creationism, as well as outspoken atheists and antitheists. How will it evolve, given how much vitriol many plussers have against Dawkins?

McCreight has left the ship, Watson has kept her distance to their movement, Dillahunty was excommunicated. Apart from them, what prominent (by Internet measures at least) people were even associated with this club?

Greta Christina. But it looks like she's taking a break to beg for money.

 

[Badger3k]

Greta Christina. But it looks like she's taking a break to beg for money.

Nah, according to a new post, she's apparently scammed enough to pay her mortgage and bills for several months, so she doesn't have to work. Of course, since she works online for the most part (with apparently speaking bits for some reason), I'm not sure how recovering from (surgery?) prevents her from posting her usual bit.

 

[Walter Ego]

I'm mostly interested how Myers' reputation will survive this. He has been involved with Dawkins (they both went to see Expelled! together) and I got the impression that they are friends. That is not at all strange, as they are both biologists, opponents of creationism, as well as outspoken atheists and antitheists. How will it evolve, given how much vitriol many plussers have against Dawkins??

Myers and Dawkins will both be at the Texas Freethought Convention in Austin which starts today. I wonder if they will avoid each other?

McCreight has left the ship, Watson has kept her distance to their movement, Dillahunty was excommunicated...

JT Eberhard has departed FtB joining other defectors and expulsions. Other bloggers are begging off posting citing work and other priorities. A+ is a lead balloon. Things aren't working out as planned for our brave new self-appointed leaders. Excuse me if I don't shed any tears.

 

[tsig]

Nah, according to a new post, she's apparently scammed enough to pay her mortgage and bills for several months, so she doesn't have to work. Of course, since she works online for the most part (with apparently speaking bits for some reason), I'm not sure how recovering from (surgery?) prevents her from posting her usual bit.

She was diagnosed with cancer. Quite a "scam".

 

[Mr. Scott]

Greta Christina. But it looks like she's taking a break to beg for money.

Oh, thanks for the heads up on this I didn't know about it. I really liked her speech on why atheists are angry.

Noticed this part of the definition of A+ on her blog:

A place where people can discuss atheism, social justice, and other topics without the risk of threats or harassment.

...in a zone where people expressing diversity of opinion are apparently threatened with harassment and banning.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Nah, according to a new post, she's apparently scammed enough to pay her mortgage and bills for several months, so she doesn't have to work. Of course, since she works online for the most part (with apparently speaking bits for some reason), I'm not sure how recovering from (surgery?) prevents her from posting her usual bit.

All of her money comes from books, speaking engagements, etc. No scam involved.

Her income is taking a hit, because she had to cancel all of her engagements to go into surgery for endometrial cancer. On top of that, her father died a few weeks ago. Regardless of what you think of the woman, you shouldn't wish that lot on anybody.

 

[qayak]

All of her money comes from books, speaking engagements, etc. No scam involved.

Her income is taking a hit, because she had to cancel all of her engagements to go into surgery for endometrial cancer. On top of that, her father died a few weeks ago. Regardless of what you think of the woman, you shouldn't wish that lot on anybody.

Yeah, whatever. I gave at the office.

Is it too early to go over to A+ and laugh in their faces? Have we declared a winner in the "How Long Will The Stupidity That Is A+ Last" contest?

 

[dasmiller]

Is it too early to go over to A+ and laugh in their faces?

That would simply give them 'proof' that they were dragged down by the misogynisting trolled bigoters, or something like that.

 

[Verklagekasper]

The "social justice" bloggers make money from people clicking their blogs. How much do they donate for charity?
I have high respect for people actually working and doing something for handicapped people, for homeless people, for people who weren't treated kind by fate.
I have zero respect for all those narcistic ******* bloggers who think they're Jesus just because they're babbeling on the Internet.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I wander over every day to check their stats. I don't have a broad enough picture to post any results/trends, though.

But while I'm there, I check into random threads. Since we're all so nutso here in politics threads, I thought, "This ought to be fun"... But they have no diversity of opinion, so there's no heated discussion. In one thread, a sainted regular started a rant about how evil the GOP is with insults and curses flying. One person suggested that calling names was probably not the best way to get a dialogue going, and one of the first people to shout him down? A mod, of course. It seems if you suggest civility, the mods come to get you.