Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[Hillbert]

It's a completely fabricated neologism/portmanteau and more importantly an entirely unnecessary one at that.

It's not a common word and not one which would typically be used in everyday life but as neologisms go it's quite good.

It has a nice precise meaning and no emotional baggage and simply describes the most usual version of "something"-gendered. It's a bit like heterosexual in that regard.

I would be slightly wary about using it as often it's used in Atheism+ as I'm not sure how much of a barrier it could potentially put up between transgendered and cisgendered. Especially for those transgendered who have no desire to get involved in the sexual politics.

But I'm wading into deep waters and flailing about blindly here, so I'll shut up.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Well, I'm not sure why or when I would want to refer to cismen specifically. If someone wants to me to call them a man I will, if they want me to call them a woman I will, if they want me to call them an oompaloompa I will.

If there is some need for distinction then I don't see the problem with using trans-man or whatever to identify that distinction.

Maybe I'm just not seeing the issue.

Simple. Look at public bathrooms. Which does a transperson use. A transman is not a man so why use the mens room?

It is not a distinction that needs to be frequently made, but it matters when dealing with trans issues.

 

[ponderingturtle]

- Blu-ray^TM is a trademarked product name for a (then) new digital video disk technology. It describes something that did not exist before.
- Quantum was a word coined to describe a newly observed phenomena. There was no word describing it previously as no one was aware of it.
- I rarely use African-American (and try writing it correctly, have some respect) except in the context of proper nouns (Department of African-American Studies, etc.).

Fine how about black or colored? There were already perfectly usable words. Same with homosexual, sodomite has a much longer tradition. I suspect the terms homo and heterosexual are coined a lot more recently than you think.

Hmm seems it was mid 19th century by an Austro-Hungarian journalist in response to a law outlawing homosexual sex being passed.

So how long does a word need to be around to a valid?

 

[WillyWonka]

I am amazed at the length that A-plusses are going to try to develop a vocabulary that is so inclusive of all possible permutations of sexual characteristics that the discourse becomes meaningless. No wonder the "movement" did not go anywhere if first you have to study the terminology before even start to talk about social justice. What next, the level of pigmentation of skin? Do I have more privilege than my brother since I am pretty white but he has more native american trait and thus much darker than me (he does not sunburn, I do).

When you cannot be comprehended by 99.999% of the population, what hope do you have to make any progress on your goals.

 

[Diogenes]

I don't find the term "cisgendered" to be particularly useful, but I can see the point.

What I don't agree with is when a self-identified transgendered person (like a thread on this topic on the A+ forum) or "ally" expresses that I'm oppressing them when I don't self-identify as a cismale.

They can be offended as they like, of course, I'm no stranger to offending apparent religious fanatics just by saying or writing about their belief system as a mythology instead of as fact.

In my opinion this reveals a large problem with their belief-atheism fusion. It seems to me that most people that self-identify as being atheist and/or skeptical recognize things like Schrödinger's Rapist, which has been around since 2009, I think it was, for the absurdity that it is. (I'd prefer we relabel it "Starling's Rapist" to give the author credit rather than misattributing Schrödinger's joke with respect to quantum entanglement...as anyone with access to the internet could easily confuse what they actually mean by reading about Schrödinger's Cat .)

...
When you cannot be comprehended by 99.999% of the population, what hope do you have to make any progress on your goals.

I'm thinking that most, if not all of them on that forum, are completely unaware of their raging "First World Privilege".

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't find the term "cisgendered" to be particularly useful, but I can see the point.

What I don't agree with is when a self-identified transgendered person (like a thread on this topic on the A+ forum) or "ally" expresses that I'm oppressing them when I don't self-identify as a cismale.

And really no one reasonable is asking you to unless they are asking specifically if you are cis or trans. The point is that saying you are male includes both cis and trans as options like in includes various races and religions as options.

I can say I am a man. Or I can say I am an atheist heterosexual white cisman. Both are correct but one is more specific.

 

[Mr. Scott]

The bookers for all the upcoming skeptic and atheist conferences have huge binders full of women (privileged white women).

 

[Piscivore]

If I were to do a Google Scholar search, what would the ratio be between publications like Journal of the APA and journals/proceedings of gender identity/studies echo chambers?

 

[westprog]

Well, I got my permanent ban. Mainly due to complaining about the moderators making up lies about me. I wonder how they'll describe me on the banned list. I doubt if it will be much short of murder.

In the end, the ban was for ... actually, I'm not really sure what it was for, except that I'm not the kind of person that they want there. I can certainly guarantee that whatever I said, I've said a lot worse on other forums - even here. I think what tipped the balance was telling someone creeping up to the mods to show some self-respect - they weren't going to give him a biscuit. I should probably have prefaced it with a trigger warning.

 

[WillyWonka]

I can say I am a man. Or I can say I am an atheist heterosexual white cisman. Both are correct but one is more specific.

Sorry, but this is asinine; I doubt very much that anyone would do it. You might do it to present some context, but otherwise, who would say that they are an heterosexual white atheist cisman to anyone. For most people, this is none of their business.

It remind me of when, in English, the term "Ms" started to be use, mid 70's I think. No similar term exists in French, so some university bright light decided to create a term called "Madelle" which was a contraction between "Madmoiselle" (miss) and "Madame" (misses). At the university, there was posters, long articles in the student paper, etc. this quickly died as no one adopted to term.

Theses terms are invented, or taken from academia, by hyper politically correct groups in order to control the agenda. It will never lead to anything.

 

[dasmiller]

Well, I got my permanent ban. Mainly due to complaining about the moderators making up lies about me. I wonder how they'll describe me on the banned list. I doubt if it will be much short of murder.

I assume you'll be a typical example of the hordes of misogynist bigoted trolls desparately trying to tear down A+ because you're frothing-at-the-mouth outraged at the idea that victims finally have a place where they can break their silence and speak up about the rampant injustice of the victim-blaming patriarchical rape culture.

And possibly some vaguely-insulting implication about your hygiene and/or genitals.

And something using "cis-". I always forget to work in "cis-"

Did I miss anything?

 

[WillyWonka]

Well, I got my permanent ban. Mainly due to complaining about the moderators making up lies about me. I wonder how they'll describe me on the banned list. I doubt if it will be much short of murder.

In the end, the ban was for ... actually, I'm not really sure what it was for, except that I'm not the kind of person that they want there. I can certainly guarantee that whatever I said, I've said a lot worse on other forums - even here. I think what tipped the balance was telling someone creeping up to the mods to show some self-respect - they weren't going to give him a biscuit. I should probably have prefaced it with a trigger warning.

I am sorry for your loss...

 

[ponderingturtle]

Sorry, but this is asinine; I doubt very much that anyone would do it. You might do it to present some context, but otherwise, who would say that they are an heterosexual white atheist cisman to anyone. For most people, this is none of their business.

It remind me of when, in English, the term "Ms" started to be use, mid 70's I think. No similar term exists in French, so some university bright light decided to create a term called "Madelle" which was a contraction between "Madmoiselle" (miss) and "Madame" (misses). At the university, there was posters, long articles in the student paper, etc. this quickly died as no one adopted to term.

Theses terms are invented, or taken from academia, by hyper politically correct groups in order to control the agenda. It will never lead to anything.

Yep, no one ever has gender issues outside academia clearly. My friends just don't exist.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

Simple. Look at public bathrooms. Which does a transperson use. A transman is not a man so why use the mens room?

It is not a distinction that needs to be frequently made, but it matters when dealing with trans issues.

Is that a real thing? I've never seen a trans public bathroom, do such things exist?

Again, I have no problem with anyone using whatever bathroom they like. I've been in places with unisex toilets and it never phased me. I'm there to expel waste, not meet new people.

 

[WillyWonka]

Yep, no one ever has gender issues outside academia clearly. My friends just don't exist.

I am sure that your friends believe in privacy as I do.

 

[westprog]

I am sorry for your loss...

It was just so totally unexpected!

Actually, I lasted longer than I expected. Partly by doing nothing that any reasonable person could consider banworthy. Anyway, a worthwhile experiment. They had the chance to overturn my preconceptions, and they decided not to.

 

[Diogenes]

...I think what tipped the balance was telling someone creeping up to the mods to show some self-respect - they weren't going to give him a biscuit. I should probably have prefaced it with a trigger warning.

Maybe an otherkin of a canine variety took offense and PM'd the mods.

 

[Myriad]

Yep, no one ever has gender issues outside academia clearly. My friends just don't exist.

There are gender issues everywhere, all the time. It's only inside academia and politics that periodically renaming things is considered progress toward any actual solutions.

I don't mind being described as a cis man, in circumstances where that particular distinction is relevant. I cannot think of very many such circumstances, though.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[westprog]

Maybe an otherkin of a canine variety took offense and PM'd the mods.

Well, I clearly had some kind of personal problem with Piegasm. Otherwise, why would she have had to ban me?

 

[Hokulele]

It remind me of when, in English, the term "Ms" started to be use, mid 70's I think. No similar term exists in French, so some university bright light decided to create a term called "Madelle" which was a contraction between "Madmoiselle" (miss) and "Madame" (misses). At the university, there was posters, long articles in the student paper, etc. this quickly died as no one adopted to term.

To be fair, "Ms." was adopted specifically because of privacy issues. In other words, my marital status isn't any of your business, unless I choose to share it with you. "Mr." is generic to all males, married or not, so it made sense to invent an honorific that granted similar anonymity to females. I find it useful in business correspondence where I do not know the marital status of the person I am communicating with, and it would be rude to presume, one way or another.

The fact that there isn't a similar honorific in French does not take away the value from the term in English.