Are White Nationalists influencing the Ron Paul campaign?

[Darth Rotor]

The argument I most often hear along these lines is that slavery ended in other parts of the world, most notably England, relatively peacefully as nations industrialized and slave labor became impractical. However, that argument never seems to account for the prejudice and segregation that was ingrained into the deep south and would go on for another century after the failure of reconstruction with the same hypocritical states' rights arguments being used to defend Jim Crow.

Of course, there is no, nor has there ever been, any prejudice nor segregation in England, and surely no antipathy towards wogs and other foreigners, eh?

The Reconstruction is another matter for another thread.

DR

 

[Checkmite]

Is there something wrong with depriving racists of money?

Nice attempt at rationalization, but such convoluted verbal cartwheeling serves only to expose a lack of integrity on the part of whomever chooses to "deprive" racists of money in that fashion.

Apparently you missed the fact that Ron Paul accepting their donations and using them to win isn't an example of racists being "deprived" of anything; but rather of their voluntarily-chosen investment paying off handsomely.

 

[Richard Masters]

Nice attempt at rationalization, but such convoluted verbal cartwheeling serves only to expose a lack of integrity on the part of whomever chooses to "deprive" racists of money in that fashion.

What lack of integrity? You continue to base the immorality of the action of receiving money on some assumption that is unfounded. Stop jumping to conclusions.

Apparently you missed the fact that Ron Paul accepting their donations and using them to win isn't an example of racists being "deprived" of anything; but rather of their voluntarily-chosen investment paying off handsomely.

Do you not share something with racists? Like your tendency to jump to conclusions? Or the fact that you are a mammal?

If you gave money to Ron Paul so he could buy you milk, and a white supremacist gave Ron Paul money for the same reason, is accepting money from you any different from accepting money from the white supremacist?

 

[Richard Masters]

These two fools with the old doofus are purportedly Don Black and his son. Looks to me like maybe RP did solicit their support.

Do you realize how many people have pictures of themselves with Ron Paul?

 

[NeoRicen]

What lack of integrity? You continue to base the immorality of the action of receiving money on some assumption that is unfounded. Stop jumping to conclusions.



Do you not share something with racists? Like your tendency to jump to conclusions? Or the fact that you are a mammal?

If you gave money to Ron Paul so he could buy you milk, and a white supremacist gave Ron Paul money for the same reason, is accepting money from you any different from accepting money from the white supremacist?

He's not buying milk, he's trying to run the most powerful nation on Earth!

 

[leftysergeant]

Do you realize how many people have pictures of themselves with Ron Paul?

I expect RP or the people around him to know not to let rabid dogs that close to the candidate.

The old cooot is not fit to govern. no attention to details that might get him killed. Supposed these two terrorist slimeballs had been Muslims with an interest in offing him, instead of white nationalists with the intent to use him to advance their RaHoWa.

And now that the idiot knows who they were, why has he not denounced them and their ill-gotten money?

 

[Patejdl]

RP explained why he took those 500$. How could someone even think that it is an actual investment for them!!??? Crazy world we're living in....

If white supremacists donated money to a schooling project for blacks in poor communities, should the organization running that program return the money even if it was used for a very good cause?? What if it was their white-supremacist goal?? To have less black people uneducated so they woudln't have to bitch about it so much.

Same with Ron Paul. Ron Paul beleives his goals are good and so there is no problem in using money for a good cause. Ron Pauls goals give NO and I say that again NO goddamn privileges to white racists. His goals are meant to be for everyone and especially black people would feel less burden if some of his ideas would be implemented. Guys just get real. For 500$ he's not going to be their bitch for christ's sake. If they think he's going to be their bitch then ha-ha stupid white racists, bad for you.

And about stormfront.org. I took a good look at their forum and spent quite alot of time ther. Yes there are many white racists but there are also white nationalists. While racists are complete and utter trash the white nationalists do not seem to promote or beleive in any kind of racism. Is it wrong to be proud to be white?? Is it bad to be proud to be black??

What Ron Paul did was the most logical thing. Yeah I admit it might be hard to understand why this is the best option but if you're an inteligent person who doesn't get irrationaly emotional, you will understand it. It's more of an emotional problem than rational and people tend to be more of emotional creatures.

+ this is what I think is important to say : Life is not only about people's preferences. If Ron Paul is smart then he knows it might outrage some people but a politician should not do only things that are emotionaly ok with the people. If he looses the election ,who cares. If there was something good in his message the smart people will understand it and maybe some of them will try to implement those things when they get to a political important places. Who knows.....

 

[Checkmite]

What lack of integrity? You continue to base the immorality of the action of receiving money on some assumption that is unfounded. Stop jumping to conclusions.

The sort of lack of integrity demonstrated by ALL those who don't care how they get money, so long as they get money. And I don't think anybody has said anything about "immorality", so stop setting up straw arguments.

If you gave money to Ron Paul so he could buy you milk, and a white supremacist gave Ron Paul money for the same reason, is accepting money from you any different from accepting money from the white supremacist?

Of course it is. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever keeping myself from associating with white supremacists in any way at all. It's not rocket science, and the sole reason for it is because of how repugnant I find them. Ron Paul seems to think they're not so bad, after all, so long as he can get money out it.

 

[Checkmite]

If white supremacists donated money to a schooling project for blacks in poor communities, should the organization running that program return the money even if it was used for a very good cause?? What if it was their white-supremacist goal?? To have less black people uneducated so they woudln't have to bitch about it so much.

I've had a few discussions with people, even on this forum, over the years about martial arts, and why they're not for me - I prefer to avoid or flee from violent confrontation if it's at all possible, which it practically always is. The funny thing is, certain die-hard martial artists are so convinced that learning a martial art is necessary for everyone, they begin trying to convince you by concocting a series of ever-more-ridiculous scenarios. Sometimes these scenarios reach the pinnacle of absurdity - "What if you're walking down a street at night and are suddenly ambushed by sixteen ninjas with Uzis??? How are you going to avoid that?"

You just posed a "sixteen ninjas" scenario.

And about stormfront.org. I took a good look at their forum and spent quite alot of time ther. Yes there are many white racists but there are also white nationalists. While racists are complete and utter trash the white nationalists do not seem to promote or beleive in any kind of racism. Is it wrong to be proud to be white?? Is it bad to be proud to be black??

To be truthful, I've never understood why anybody would be "proud" of something over which they have absolutely zero control. I'm proud of what I do.

 

[Patejdl]

Actually we have a scenario where some kooky white supremacists gave money to Ron Paul for a "good thing". So this is your "sixteen ninjas" situation and it's as real as it gets. That's what i've been talking about the whole time. The situation occured already. See the connection?? You did not explain why Ron Paul should return the money.

Now what's really is questionable if Ron Paul's goals really that good?? He sure beleives his message is good. But what if his goals would do more damage. Now this is a far more greater dillema than some few bucks from a few idiots.

 

[Checkmite]

Actually we have a scenario where some kooky white supremacists gave money to Ron Paul for a "good thing". So this is your "sixteen ninjas" situation and it's as real as it gets. That's what i've been talking about the whole time. The situation occured already. See the connection?? You did not explain why Ron Paul should return the money.

No, we have a scenario where white supremacists gave money to Ron Paul in order to help him win an election because they are of the opinion he would advance their goals, which is NOT a "good thing".

Ron Paul should have rejected the money because if white supremacy is as horrible as he (only later) claimed it is, the principled thing to do would be to try and win his election without their "help".

 

[Mister Agenda]

Ron Paul should have rejected the money because if white supremacy is as horrible as he (only later) claimed it is, the principled thing to do would be to try and win his election without their "help".

You call it principled, others call it PC pandering. Is there no room for persons of principle to disagree on what the principled thing to do is or is anyone who doesn't agree with your position automatically to be considered unprincipled?

We tend to judge these things emotionally, and are often unable to articulate WHY one particular action in a morally gray area is wrong and another is right. Our 'arguments' often amount to no more than: "It just is, okay?!".

A universal ethical calculus that gives us all the same answers has yet to be devised. Until we have that, I think some good principles regarding judgement of the actions of others are "take people's word for what they think" and "when in doubt, tolerate."

Ron Paul only lacks integrity if he fails to act according to HIS principles. One of which is thrift.

 

[Patejdl]

Checkmite : If you hadn't notice I already covered that in my first post. I hate to repeat myself but yes I didn't made it clear that it's not about what does the donor think but it's about the thing that is being donated to. And that "thing" is Ron Paul's message. And the positivity or negativity of Ron Paul's message is what should be investigated. So ha-ha stupid white supremacists

No need to explain it more.

I beleive i'm right and you beleive you're right. Now what can we do about it because clearly at this moment we won't come to an agreement and what if we never will. The best would be to have a history-designing-time-machine to see if Ron Paul's presidency would pay off. But even that's sometimes hard to proove even if you have all facts on the table.

It's just way more easier to say that dowsing is not better than chance alone and that is a fact. Thank spaghettimonster that there are issues that can be resolved without any doubt or emotional attachment.

 

[Checkmite]

Ron Paul only lacks integrity if he fails to act according to HIS principles. One of which is thrift.

Oh, absolutely. The white supremacists' money IS green, after all. I guess it's just a matter of what's more important to Ron Paul (the money, it turns out).

 

[Checkmite]

Checkmite : If you hadn't notice I already covered that in my first post. I hate to repeat myself but yes I didn't made it clear that it's not about what does the donor think but it's about the thing that is being donated to.

The ends justify the means, do they?

 

[Dr Adequate]

Same with Ron Paul. Ron Paul beleives his goals are good and so there is no problem in using money for a good cause.

On the one hand, you justify Ron Paul's behavior as a pragmatic means to further his goals. On the other hand, accepting the money is going to do his image more damage than can be offset by however much advertising $500 can buy you. So if he's not in sympathy with these people's goals, then one has to question his judgement.

If you regard this point as trivial, then where do you draw the line? Should Ron Paul accept money from al Qaeda? Well, it's all for a good cause, isn't it ... ?

If, on the other hand, he is prepared to draw the line somewhere, then I for one think that he should draw it so that Stormfront is on the other side of the line from him.

 

[Richard Masters]

I expect RP or the people around him to know not to let rabid dogs that close to the candidate.

The old cooot is not fit to govern. no attention to details that might get him killed. Supposed these two terrorist slimeballs had been Muslims with an interest in offing him, instead of white nationalists with the intent to use him to advance their RaHoWa.

And now that the idiot knows who they were, why has he not denounced them and their ill-gotten money?

He did denounce racists. You need to inform yourself.

 

[Richard Masters]

He's not buying milk, he's trying to run the most powerful nation on Earth!

You are missing the point. If the money from different contributors is going to be used for the same thing, and that thing is good, then why should any money be returned?

 

[Richard Masters]

The sort of lack of integrity demonstrated by ALL those who don't care how they get money, so long as they get money. And I don't think anybody has said anything about "immorality", so stop setting up straw arguments.

I thought a lack of integrity in character was understood as having to do with immorality. So maybe you should define lack of integrity for me. Is it related to morality or not? And if so, then it is not a straw man argument, and you should answer the question.

Of course it is. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever keeping myself from associating with white supremacists in any way at all.

Wow! How do you do it?

It's not rocket science, and the sole reason for it is because of how repugnant I find them.

OK...

Ron Paul seems to think they're not so bad, after all, so long as he can get money out it.

I find them repugnant as well, but that doesn't mean I can't associate with them. Would you refuse to get help from a racist person in order to save someone who is drowning?

 

[Checkmite]

I find them repugnant as well, but that doesn't mean I can't associate with them. Would you refuse to get help from a racist person in order to save someone who is drowning?

Not quite the same as a "sixteen ninjas" scenario, but just as extreme and beside the point. "What if you had no choice but to be around a white supremacist?" Well, when I have no choice, I have no choice; I can live. But when I do have a choice, I distance myself whenever possible.

Ron Paul, likewise, had a choice. He decided that, as long as he gets some money out of it, it's OK to accept the support of white supremacists. Hey, he certainly has every right to make that choice - no question there. But I disagree with his choice, and consider it just another reason in the long list of reasons I can't support him.