Are We More Than Just a Machine?

Originally posted by Iacchus
...the wind ... You know not from whence it comes nor, whence it goes.
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Such has been the thinking for centuries. We don't know the structure of mater. We don't know how to synthesize carbon. We don't know what the building blocks of life are. We don't know how to fix the human heart. We don't know how to transplant eyes. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

We can predict the origins and we can predict the destination of wind with reasonable accuracy.

Where does Wind Energy come From?

The Coriolis Force

Global Winds

The Geostrophic Wind

Local Winds: Sea Breezes

Local Winds: Mountain Winds

Which is one hell of a lot more than anyone can say about "spirit".
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
Congratulations, RandFan! I think this counts as Iacchus making a rational point.
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Ah, finally huh? You see, I had you pegged all along. Gee, what could Iacchus hope to say that was rational? Sheesh!

By the way, if something comes to me to say, I will, otherwise we'll just have to hold off and wait to see what the spirit wishes to reveal.
 
Iacchus said:
Ah, finally huh? You see, I had you pegged all along. Gee, what could Iacchus hope to say that was rational? Sheesh!
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I've seen you post rational things before. If I hadn't, I wouldn't dredge up hope every now and again that you're capable of serious discussion.

By the way, if something comes to me say, I will, otherwise we'll just have to hold off and wait to see what the spirit wishes to reveal.
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Apparently, the spirit never wishes to answer questions.
 
RandFan said:
We can predict the origins and we can predict the destination of wind with reasonable accuracy.
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And why is it that for some reason I was just waiting to hear this? Is it possible one could be blinded by all this knowledge? It used to be we were more concerned about living our lives -- in reference to the spirit -- instead of trying to ward it all away with knowledge. So, what does knowledge tell us about living in the moment? Or, do we wish to try and explain that away too?
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
I've seen you post rational things before. If I hadn't, I wouldn't dredge up hope every now and again that you're capable of serious discussion.

Apparently, the spirit never wishes to answer questions.
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The spirit is that part of me which is alive and aware and in the moment. So, if you wish to address anything that entails life, this is where you do so ... with me or, with whomever.
 
Iacchus said:
So, what does knowledge tell us about living in the moment? Or, do we wish to try and explain that away too?
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That we should go out and actually live in the moment, instead of wasting it with self-congradulatory navel-gazing. Of course, I've said this to you before, haven't I?

Piscivore said:
I agree. So going by the measure of all that I've done- despite an admittedly large measure of literary distraction- your life must be filled with amazing experiences, insomuch as you have not been so encumbered. Care to share them with us?

How many countries have you travelled to? How many continents? Been stopped at an international checkpoint to be searched? Have you ever had a gun pointed at you? Been robbed? Pickpocketed? Assaulted? Assaulted someone else? Had protesters throw rocks at you?

Ever saved someone's life? Taken someone's life? Watched someone die? Someone you loved? Have you sat through the night in an hospital waiting room as a loved one was on the table? Filled out a death certificate? A birth certificate? A marriage certificate? How many funerals have you been to? How many births?

Ever been in a movie? Seen one being made? Been on TV? Tried to get on TV and failed? Had a relative get on TV? Gotten a rejection slip from a publisher? Actually had something published?

Have you been in a plane crash? Been in a really rough landing? Flown in a storm? Seen the airbags pop out? Sat next to a celebrity on a plane? Flown in a glider? A hot-air balloon? A vintage WWII bomber? A WWI Biplane? Driven a race car?

What kinds of weird I-can't-believe-I-ate-that foods have you tried?

How many women have you loved?


C'mon, Iacchus; dazzle us with your life [lived "in the moment"]... :rolleyes:
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Iacchus said:
And why is it that for some reason I was just waiting to hear this? Is it possible one could be blinded by all this knowledge?
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It used to be that we would huddle in the dark and chant incantations to ward of evil spirits. I can't believe you are suggesting this. What did our non blinded lack of knowledge do for us? We died en masse, we relied on superstition, we suffered from exposure and disease.

It used to be we were more concerned about living our lives, in reference to the spirit, instead of trying to ward it all away with knowledge. So, what does knowledge tell us about living in the moment? Or, do we wish to try and explain that away too?
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???? There is nothing that prevents you from living like Ted Kazynski in a cabin and without running water or indoor toilets. You don't need a car or take cold medicine or antibiotics. I currently have kidney problems. I would rather have the benefit of our knowledge than the superstitions of the past and pray to god for a cure. I know of nothing that the "spirit" has done to improve anyone's life. I grew up believing in such and spouting such. I went on a mission advocating such. I don't need or want it.
 
Piscivore said:
That we should go out and actually live in the moment, instead of wasting it with self-congradulatory navel-gazing. Of course, I've said this to you before, haven't I?
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I AM THAT I AM ... and will always be here -- nothing more, nothing less -- in the moment. If you wish to argue with that, so be it. But, don't expect any more or, less than this. It's all I could possibly tell you.
 
Iacchus said:
The spirit is that part of me which is alive and aware and in the moment. So, if you wish to address anything that entails life, this is where you do so ... with me or, with whomever.
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I'm not really concerned with what part of you reads and responds to these or other posts, be it your spirit or your sphincter. I'm concerned with how that part, whatever it is, responds. If it responds evasively and disingenuously, as has often been the case in the past, I will point that out, most likely derisively. If it responds in an open, honest manner with an eye toward investigating a question instead of just asking it and letting it hang like Judas, I will respond in kind.
 
RandFan said:
It used to be that we would huddle in the dark and chant incantations to ward of evil spirits. I can't believe you are suggesting this. What did our non blinded lack of knowledge do for us? We died en masse, we relied on superstition, we suffered from exposure and disease.

???? There is nothing that prevents you from living like Ted Kazynski in a cabin and without running water or indoor toilets. You don't need a car or take cold medicine or antibiotics. I currently have kidney problems. I would rather have the benefit of our knowledge than the superstitions of the past and pray to god for a cure. I know of nothing that the "spirit" has done to improve anyone's life. I grew up believing in such and spouting such. I went on a mission advocating such. I don't need or want it.
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Well, the only time we can recognize anything worth knowing is in the moment. Yet to the degree that we seek knowledge, we lose sight of the moment. So, it would seem there should be some happy trade-off here.
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
I'm not really concerned with what part of you reads and responds to these or other posts, be it your spirit or your sphincter. I'm concerned with how that part, whatever it is, responds. If it responds evasively and disingenuously, as has often been the case in the past, I will point that out, most likely derisively. If it responds in an open, honest manner with an eye toward investigating a question instead of just asking it and letting it hang like Judas, I will respond in kind.
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You are your spirit, so, you really have no excuses. And, if you wish to dwell on your sphincter, that's entirely up to you.
 
Iacchus said:
I AM THAT I AM ... and will always be here -- nothing more, nothing less -- in the moment. If you wish to argue with that, so be it. But, don't expect any more or, less than this. It's all I could possibly tell you.
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So in other words, for you "the moment" is akin to the shell of the hermit crab.

Sounds boring. Except that's not what I asked. I asked what do you do in this moment of yours, not that you are, in fact, hiding in it. Do you have a big screen TV in the moment? Perhaps you have a swinging bachelor pad wherein wait three young and naive Belgian stewardesses who do not understand English much but who seem to find you hilarious and charming anyway? A toaster? the latest novel from Danielle Steele? What is it about this "moment" that attracts you so? You never seem to do anything with it other than to use it as a pair of Peril-Sensitive Sunglasses whenever anyone questions the value of your "wisdom."

Your mantras aside, of what use is it to you, this realisation that you live in this "moment"?
 
Iacchus said:
Well, the only time we can recognize anything worth knowing is in the moment. Yet to the degree that we seek knowledge, we lose sight of the moment. So, it would seem there should be some happy trade-off here.
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By the way, "living in the moment," is what prepares us for the bus which is about smack into us head-on ... Otherwise we won't see it coming.
 
Iacchus said:
Well, the only time we can recognize anything worth knowing is in the moment. Yet to the degree that we seek knowledge, we lose sight of the moment. So, it would seem there should be some happy trade-off here.
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I'm not sure how important "the moment" is. Many things cause us to lose sight of the moment. When my kidneys hurt or my child is sick or I'm in a hurry to accomplish my tasks. I do at times like to be aware of the moment like when I'm with my family in the evenings, weekends or vacations. I like to be aware of the moment when I notice the sunset, a blue sky or a pretty woman. Sometimes I like to be completely lost in the moment but enjoy it anyway like when I'm watching an action thriller or scary movie. I don't like to be aware of the moment when I'm doing paperwork. I like to be lost in the moment when I'm programming or auditing. I enjoy these activities but I don't feel the need to take note of them.

I really don't know what you are getting at. Neither god, sprit or religion seem to have anything to do with these things. I used to think they did but I know now that they don't.
 
Piscivore said:
So in other words, for you "the moment" is akin to the shell of the hermit crab.
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The moment is the here and now ... and, will always be the here and now.
 
Iacchus said:
By the way, "living in the moment," is what prepares us for the bus which is about smack into us head-on ... Otherwise we won't see it coming.
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No, that is "situational awareness," and it also has nothing at all to do with god, spirit, or religion.
 
RandFan said:
I really don't know what you are getting at. Neither god, sprit or religion seem to have anything to do with these things. I used to think they did but I know now that they don't.
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Your very life -- which, is of the spirit -- exists in the moment.
 
Iacchus said:
Your very life -- which, is of the spirit -- exists in the moment.
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I have an idea what it is that you are saying since I used to subscribe to the "spirit". This is not axiomatic and I don't have a basis to accept it now.

Whatever it is, it is. Why do we need to label "it" or give it properties with out reason?
 
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