Anyone heard about this dude? (pavelprorok on youtube)
- Thread starter The_Fire
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Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Possibly not much of a poker player either, if you're going to need six cards to make a lousy two "pairs".
All right, everybody, let's calm down and be civil, okay? There's no point in antagonizing, questioning each other's intelligence and getting upset. That won't get us anywhere.
GzuzKryzt, this was totally uncalled for. We are dealing with a MDC claimant who has actually met JREF requirements, applied, and has been trying to put together a suitable protocol. I, personally, want to see this test happen. Your earlier posts were quite helpful in that regard - your latest one was not. If, as you say, your head "opposed strongly" to sending that post, then next time, you should really do credit to the central message of JREF and rationality and listen to your head.
GzuzKryzt, this was totally uncalled for. We are dealing with a MDC claimant who has actually met JREF requirements, applied, and has been trying to put together a suitable protocol. I, personally, want to see this test happen. Your earlier posts were quite helpful in that regard - your latest one was not. If, as you say, your head "opposed strongly" to sending that post, then next time, you should really do credit to the central message of JREF and rationality and listen to your head.
Crundy
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 475
Cool, have you done it for a toaster or a microwave as well?
Pavel, I sincerely apologize for the tone and attitude of my last post. I let vanity get a hold of me.
I do not apologize for the points I made though.
pavel_do
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
- Messages
- 363
weekend testings
I done 15 sets of “triplets” and had some testing with them over weekend.
I managed to have 3 trial with a help of my friend who placed photos, and passed them to me one by one etc.
First time I got 7 correct out of 15 in second run of 15 I made 8 correct. So for the 1 trial I got 15 correct answers.
And In second trial 8 and 5, so 13 in all.
And the third one 7 and 7, 14 in all.
Most of my mistakes was with the same sets, so I will redo the “trouble sets” today will change them to make it more deferent from each other and less confusing. Also figured out that I am better if I make small brakes after each 5 sets, so I am getting less confused.
Another thing, I managed to speak to a Professor that was involved many years in researching of the paranormal things. And he said, that for the DBT double blind testing, it is important that BOTH side would not know what is the photo in the envelope at the moment when it is handled to me. That is responds to the rules of DBT, and the fact that I need to have result and envelope to be opened immediately upon my answer, does not affect DBT in any way, and if that would be him who would make test, he would not mind and would allow me to have envelope open immediately and answer to be revealed.
P.s. YEs I know I need to get 19-20 correct out of 30, and my result’s for now not very close to it, but I am being honest with results, plus I need some time to practice with new sets of 3 as before I use to practice in a deferent way and with deferent sets (pairs). My last practice with pairs of 2 and 50/50 chance.. was.. out of 20 pairs I got correct 15.
I done 15 sets of “triplets” and had some testing with them over weekend.
I managed to have 3 trial with a help of my friend who placed photos, and passed them to me one by one etc.
First time I got 7 correct out of 15 in second run of 15 I made 8 correct. So for the 1 trial I got 15 correct answers.
And In second trial 8 and 5, so 13 in all.
And the third one 7 and 7, 14 in all.
Most of my mistakes was with the same sets, so I will redo the “trouble sets” today will change them to make it more deferent from each other and less confusing. Also figured out that I am better if I make small brakes after each 5 sets, so I am getting less confused.
Another thing, I managed to speak to a Professor that was involved many years in researching of the paranormal things. And he said, that for the DBT double blind testing, it is important that BOTH side would not know what is the photo in the envelope at the moment when it is handled to me. That is responds to the rules of DBT, and the fact that I need to have result and envelope to be opened immediately upon my answer, does not affect DBT in any way, and if that would be him who would make test, he would not mind and would allow me to have envelope open immediately and answer to be revealed.
P.s. YEs I know I need to get 19-20 correct out of 30, and my result’s for now not very close to it, but I am being honest with results, plus I need some time to practice with new sets of 3 as before I use to practice in a deferent way and with deferent sets (pairs). My last practice with pairs of 2 and 50/50 chance.. was.. out of 20 pairs I got correct 15.
pavel_do
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
- Messages
- 363
New propose of the protocol to test my claiming powers.
Without looking in any possible- physical ways in side of the sealed envelope, just by holding it between my hands, I will be able to identify the photo that will be inside and will name it.
In order to be able to demonstrate such abilities I need to be able to perform a minimum of three trials.
That would give me enough time to demonstrate it. Also having 3 trials significantly reduce stress level for me in comparence to 1 and only trial for the testing of claimed by me abilities.
During 3 trials with 30 sets in each trial, in one of them I will get at least 19 correct (65 % accuracy). If I get less than 65% correct in any of 3 trials, I accept that I was not able to perform my abilities successfully under/according the conditions and the protocol that was agreed before the test by both sides such as Myself and JREF and that the test results are negative. With 19 or more correct photos in any of three trials, the test result is positive.
(or the same conditions but with 24 sets where 16 of them should be right or respectively to any other sets that will be agreed in the finale protocol.)
Materials required:
90 photographs per trial 3.5 x 5 inches printed from the files that I will assemble in advance. (270 for all 3 trial)
90 letter sized envelopes ( 270 in all)
90 larger manila envelopes (270 in all)
Pencil
Paper sheets with the list of the sets in order from 1 to 15.
There should be separate sheet- listing the photos for each run of the trial, e.g. if 15 base sets will be agreed for all the tests, in this case 15 sets will be used 2 times per trial in order to achieve 30 sets in all. So for the each trial of 30 sets there should be 2 lists by 15 sets listed per list. And 6 lists of 15 sets for all 3 trials.
(The final numbers will depend of the finale agreed numbers of sets used per run and the actual sets.)
Drawing book with plain pages (to be able to draws and make notes of the visions that I will see during the testing).
Environment stipulations:
No talking or any kind of distraction with light or sound or any other ways of interruption during the test. No photography during the test will be allowed as the flash or the sound produced by the camera can be distracting.
No trickery, or cheating from either Pavel or JREF or other parties present in room during the test. The environment should be established to give me the best chance of success and JREF the assurance that my abilities are real.
No substance with a strong odor will be allowed in the room same, include people who might use perfume that has strong odor and that can cause distraction during the concentration and a headache due to the strong smell.
It is important that in the room where the test will be held, there should be NO photos or pictures of any kind on the walls or anywhere near me and visible to me.
What Will Constitute a Successful Test:
If I am able to identify 19 photos out of 30 sealed envelopes (drawn from 30 sets of 3, by one from each set) just by holding it between my hands, the test will be successful.
Time required:
No more than 6-7 hours
To do and agree:
List of the photographs and the name for each of it. (depend on the agreed numbers of sets)
Example.
1. Star
2. Ship
3. House
4. etc.
List of the possible pairs and the numbers that will be attached to it.
As an example with the 1st set of 3. Photos of the Apple, Brown Horse and the photo of the Ship will be placed in double envelopes and all 3 of them marked with number ONE to make a set of three envelopes marked with number 1. ( Just an example, the actual range of photos and sets will be agreed in final protocol)
1. Apple – Brown horse - Ship.
2. Orange sunset (water) - Black and white Circle clock shape - The house in the threes (autumn-winter).
3. Candles - Ship “Titanic” – Houses street (with a blue sky).
4. Etc…
Preparation:
By a third party in a separate room all the pictures that are used in the testing will be placed into letter sized envelopes and then place the letter sized envelopes into larger manila envelopes.
The envelopes will be checked for marks, folds, creases etc by JREF representatives before being brought into the test room.
Each envelope in the set will then be marked-numbered according to agreed list 1 – 15 using a pencil.
The numbers should be marked slightly by pencil in the corner of the envelope from the back side of it, so that can be visible on the envelope in order to identify the current pair by the number on it.
The marks should be made in the following order.
Photos of the Apple, Brown Horse and the photo of the Ship will be placed in double envelopes and all 3 of them marked with number ONE to make a set of three envelopes marked with number 1.
Etc… according to agreed list of photos and pairs.
For each run there, shell be prepared separate set of envelopes, in order to save time in replacing photos in the new envelopes and remarking them. So if there will be agreed 3 runs/trials by 30 sets each, in this case 3 identical sets of 90 sets of three in each have to be prepared in advance.
(If we agree to use sets of 15 per run and 2 runs per trial, in this case 2 identical sets by 15, shell be prepared to be able to use 2 sets (30 photos) per trial.)
Test settings:
1. The photos will be placed in envelopes in separate room by a third party with the supervision of a JREF representatives who will make sure that there will be no interference in the process of preparation of the photo pairs for the test.
2. After I am situated, ready, and comfortable, I will cover my eyes with a mask and my ears with the plugs and will have 10 minutes to get ready and relax.
After that, the testing shell begin, and one random envelope from the first/any set shell be handed to me.
3. I would need up to 3 minutes to hold each envelope.
The test.
Marked envelopes arranged by the sets and with the label numbers on it matching the set, shell be arranged and prepared to be used in test.
By the third party (a person who was not involved in the process of placing photos in the envelopes), each set has to be shuffled to make sure that no one in the room including the person shuffling the envelopes, knows the order of the photos in sets. Then, one photo of the set will be chosen at random and passed to the person who will bring it to the room where the actual test will be held.
Alternatively, one single envelope from each set can be drawn at one time and carried in the testing room all together at once.
All the drawn out envelopes shell be reshuffled before they will be delivered to the testing room.
The person will give me the envelope of the current pair, with no words or any other sound signs that would in any way suggest or define the order number for the envelope from the pair that will be handed to me.
I will hold the envelope between my hands for a period of 1 to 3 minutes.
While I will hold it I will describe a laud the visions that I will be seeing, will draw them if necessary.
I will take the mask off and after that the number of the current set shell be showed to me with no words or any other signs. (Or I will look at it myself after I remove the mask.)
After the describing and possible drawings will be finished, I will hand the envelope back to the third party.
I will look to the list of sets that will be on the table to see what are the options of the set.
After I get to know what are the 3 options of the set, and will be able to compare/match the visions and signs that I sew while I held the envelope to one of 3 options, I will offer my guess for the photo that was held by me. **
After I announce the answer, the third party will open the envelope in front of everyone including me*** and will reveal the photo that was inside. Then the result will be recorded as either correct or incorrect by me and by the JREF or any other party who will be in the room.
The same procedure will be done with all sets of photos in current run. And during all runs that will be agreed, until the last envelope will be identified by me and my “guess” will be announced.
I would need 5 minutes brake between each 5 photo sets. In case, if set of 15 will be used per run, and it will need 2 runs in order to achieve 30 pairs trial. I would need 5/10 minutes brake between every 15 sets and 10/15 minutes between trials with every next set of 30.
After all the tests-runs will be complete, the JREF representative will announce the results for the Preliminary Test as either Positive or Negative.
Remarks:
*A single paper sheet with thumbnail images of the pictures in order of the sets also labeled from 1 to 15 will be on the table with me on each run. In addition, I would need a pencil and drawing book, to make notes and marks/drawings.
Or the list of all the pairs in the order that was agreed before, (without thumbnail images on it, to avoid confusion and the chance that seeing pictures any extra time before “guess”, will make an imprint in my mind and will affect the answer for naming the right envelope).
ALTERNATIVELY, BOTH LIST OF SETS AND LIST WITH THUMBNAILS WILL BE ON THE TABLE, SO I WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE PICTURES IF NECCECARY TO MAKE A BETTER MATCH TO MY VISONS.
Either way will be agreed in the final protocol.
With the list of pairs I will be able to get to know what the photos are in the current set without any sounds and annunciations. For that reason the envelopes that will be handed to me have to be marked in strict order that will be agreed, from 1st to the 15.
**If I am not sure in my answer, I would like to announce it by saying “I am not sure” and that envelope shell be placed a side and I shell try to identify it after the rest of the pairs in run have been named.
In case that I am unsure of a few envelopes, all of them shall be put aside (remaining in the same room but off the table) until the end of my “work” with the rest of the pairs. After the current run will be over, (all the envelopes from current run was named), the “doubted” envelopes shall be reshuffled and in random passed to me for the final identification.
The purpose of using the mask and earplugs is to eliminate an extra distraction such as sound and light, which will help me to concentrate better. At the same time, the mask, earplugs and the list of pairs at the test, will help to eliminate chances that I am “guessing” which envelope, by reading the vocal and body signals from the person holding the envelopes and naming it.
*** I need to know the result of my “guess” immediately after I name the photo. I prefer this because, when I hold the envelope I am trying to foresee what will I actually see when the photo will be revealed. By asking myself – “What picture will I see when the envelope will be open”. For this reason, it is important for me and necessary to see the actual photo immediately after I offer my “guess” during the test. And not in the end of run, when I will be seeing all the photos that was in random envelopes.
Notes:
1. No talking (or signaling!) during the test from any person who will be present in room.
2. No text messaging or phone calls allowed, as the sms and call alerts can distract my concentration and affect the result of my answer. (The smsing during the test is not permitted either, as the sound of the constantly clicking buttons can be very irritating and distracting). For that reason, all mobile phones in the room, must be switched to a silent mode to eliminate interruptions of the testing. If anyone needs to make calls or sms, it can be done during the brake between runs
3. Any person that is present at the testing may raise his or her hand during the demonstration to inform the others of suspicious behavior of anyone in the room. However, no shouting or interruptions will be allowed during the process of identifying the photo. If there are any doubts or suspicions, the person shall raise his/her hand silently and inform the others after I have finished with identification of the current photo and announced my answer.
I would prefer:
1. I want to do the test in United States, in Charlotte, North Carolina to avoid traveling that can affect my state due to the road sickness or the climate change. Testing should be done in the presence of objective people which both as JREF and I can trust. I want to be able to approve the people that are present during the testing, e.g. it can’t be more than 10 people in the room during the test.
2. I want to bring with me a friend Vladimir Sirovitskiy who will be present at the testing as a support.
After the test will start, there will be no talking or any kind of communication between us until the test will be complete and the last photo will be identified and announced.
3. I also would like Dr. Eric D. Heggestad, and Dr. Linda Shanock, the academics that tested me to produce affidavit letters for application for the challenge, to be present during the test (if they are able to attend it) as the independent parties and witnesses –supervisors.
4. I would like the testing to take place in the afternoon, as I would need time to have rest and sleep enough hours and get ready for the test. (As due to the stress with the upcoming test I might have a problem to sleep) For example, it can start at 1 pm where I will arrive at 12 noon, an hour before.
5. I would prefer the weather conditions to be good at the day of testing, as I am sensitive to the low atmospheric pressure and often get headaches, feel low and tired when it is cloudy and the atmospheric pressure is low.
6. I prefer to know the result of my “guess” immediately after I name the photo. I prefer this because, when I hold the envelope I am trying to foresee what will I actually see when the photo will be revealed. By asking myself – “What picture will I see when the envelope will be open”. For this reason, it is important for me and necessary to see the actual photo immediately after I offer my “guess” during the test.
Sincerely yours,
Pavel
P.S.
In order to be able to understand better the way my ability to “see” photos work, I would like to explain a bit about how I see things. I am sure that will help you to understand me better and knowing them and considering during the negotiations will be useful in producing the test protocol that will be used for testing of abilities that is claimed by me.
First of all.
I do not see things in exact way and the same as we all see in a physical way with our eyes. What I do see it is shapes, colors, sometimes-exact things but all of it related in some way to the photo that I hold. It is all the time different, I can’t order my self to see a color or let say what shape it is… I see what I see. For that reason it is really hard to make big set with different pictures as most of them in one or the other way have similar shapes texture colors etc.. I tried and worked on it that how I know it…
So if we take en example with pair of the photos, Pyramid and an Apple. If I hold one of the photo, and I see something ROUND or no shapes but RAD color etc.. So when I told that the pair contains Pyramid and the Apple, I will know there is an apple that I held in my hands, be cause pyramids has no red color on photo and it is not in a round shape. But I said above, every time I see different thing.. like with example of photo with Statue of liberty and let say dogs… many times I sew a SHIP or the OCEAN when I held statue of liberty. So I know the photo I hold is related to the water, so out of two options ( Liberty and dogs) Liberty facing ships and surrounded by water so that is the photo.. That is how I see usually.
Recent example… I held photo (random) and I sew a BOW (weapon) with the arrow in side… the pair from the list was Clock black and white and the African elephant, so I know it was CLOCK as it is in a round shape and the BOW with arrow look like in some way a like a half of the clock that is showing 3 o’clock. And it was a clock! Or like I hold envelope and I see MOUNTAINS… I know there is no mountains on the photos. So when the pair was announced one of two photo was Pyramids so I know it is Pyramids as the shape I sew resembles Pyramids and I was right…
I hope it is clear in some way, if you have any question I am happy to answer them.
Another things…
Why cant it be let say only 2 photos say APPLE and CROSS… say 25 each that would make 50 in all.. seem easy I need to separate them in each pile… Yes that is not a problem.. BUT in this case, though I am psychic but I am a human the brain and mind still work in normal way and it is not always help. Example, we use set of 50 photos with 25 each. 25 of Apples and 25 of Crosses, that was shuffled in order to bring them to a random. I hold first two photos and sew round thing.. OK great that the Apple.. and I am right... But when I will hold 3dh or forth envelope and If I will still keep seeing round thing that would signify apple, my brain will get involved in doubting me… Like “saying” it CANT BE an apple 4 times in a row it just mix up, u sew it last time...
Though I know it can be possible that all 25 in row will happen to be APPLES… but I cant switch off brain and that the case. For that reason It is not that simple as it seem from first look and can not be used in testing of my ability as it will not allow me to perform it with best results.
IF you looked at the list of the pairs each pair has different photo in different colors and shapes and structure… It is almost impossible have all completely different photos.. If I would see always exact colors when I hold it that would be easy I would make 40 different colors photos and would see them all exact. But as I said… I see all the time different, sometimes shapes sometimes colors some time exact thing or something that relates to the picture.
From my last practices I realize that I can perform better IF I don’t know current pair that I hold, so I hold first the photo I see what I see, I can describe what I see and make drawings… than when I know what are the options I can make my answer based ON WHAT I SAW… that helps, to remove some destructions like: I don’t know what I hold (as pairs will be mixed and will be handled to me in random) So I am more relax and my brain not interferes in a sense that, If say it is run number 2 (with the same photos), I have to hold 4th pair and it is say Cross and the Elephant…
If the last time I held it, it was Cross and this time I will see cross sign or something in shape of cross or even just black and white lines… so that would all resemble the cross photo.. so again I will be doubting if it is a cross again or just “memory game” and doubts never helps as I said before… Same thing with the shapes and colors… so by holding the pair in any order and describing it first helps to be more “independent” from mind games..
The test protocol that I proposed above, is based on the results of my experiments with pairs, zenner cards, 3 out of 10 or 20 and many others and paying attentions to the results and what can affect it in one or the other way.
I am willing and ready to work and negotiate with JREF, and I am sure we can and will work out the best and most suitable protocol that will satisfy both sides. As long as both sides are willing and ready to listen to each other and explain to each other why one or the other thing can or can’t be in protocol. And the points and opinions of the other side, is taken to consideration.
Propose of the protocol to test my claiming powers.
Based on the testing with 15 sets of photos (by 3 photo in each set,) 15 sets by 2 runs, in order to reach 30 sets per trial.
Based on the testing with 15 sets of photos (by 3 photo in each set,) 15 sets by 2 runs, in order to reach 30 sets per trial.
Without looking in any possible- physical ways in side of the sealed envelope, just by holding it between my hands, I will be able to identify the photo that will be inside and will name it.
In order to be able to demonstrate such abilities I need to be able to perform a minimum of three trials.
That would give me enough time to demonstrate it. Also having 3 trials significantly reduce stress level for me in comparence to 1 and only trial for the testing of claimed by me abilities.
During 3 trials with 30 sets in each trial, in one of them I will get at least 19 correct (65 % accuracy). If I get less than 65% correct in any of 3 trials, I accept that I was not able to perform my abilities successfully under/according the conditions and the protocol that was agreed before the test by both sides such as Myself and JREF and that the test results are negative. With 19 or more correct photos in any of three trials, the test result is positive.
(or the same conditions but with 24 sets where 16 of them should be right or respectively to any other sets that will be agreed in the finale protocol.)
Materials required:
90 photographs per trial 3.5 x 5 inches printed from the files that I will assemble in advance. (270 for all 3 trial)
90 letter sized envelopes ( 270 in all)
90 larger manila envelopes (270 in all)
Pencil
Paper sheets with the list of the sets in order from 1 to 15.
There should be separate sheet- listing the photos for each run of the trial, e.g. if 15 base sets will be agreed for all the tests, in this case 15 sets will be used 2 times per trial in order to achieve 30 sets in all. So for the each trial of 30 sets there should be 2 lists by 15 sets listed per list. And 6 lists of 15 sets for all 3 trials.
(The final numbers will depend of the finale agreed numbers of sets used per run and the actual sets.)
Drawing book with plain pages (to be able to draws and make notes of the visions that I will see during the testing).
Environment stipulations:
No talking or any kind of distraction with light or sound or any other ways of interruption during the test. No photography during the test will be allowed as the flash or the sound produced by the camera can be distracting.
No trickery, or cheating from either Pavel or JREF or other parties present in room during the test. The environment should be established to give me the best chance of success and JREF the assurance that my abilities are real.
No substance with a strong odor will be allowed in the room same, include people who might use perfume that has strong odor and that can cause distraction during the concentration and a headache due to the strong smell.
It is important that in the room where the test will be held, there should be NO photos or pictures of any kind on the walls or anywhere near me and visible to me.
What Will Constitute a Successful Test:
If I am able to identify 19 photos out of 30 sealed envelopes (drawn from 30 sets of 3, by one from each set) just by holding it between my hands, the test will be successful.
Time required:
No more than 6-7 hours
To do and agree:
List of the photographs and the name for each of it. (depend on the agreed numbers of sets)
Example.
1. Star
2. Ship
3. House
4. etc.
List of the possible pairs and the numbers that will be attached to it.
As an example with the 1st set of 3. Photos of the Apple, Brown Horse and the photo of the Ship will be placed in double envelopes and all 3 of them marked with number ONE to make a set of three envelopes marked with number 1. ( Just an example, the actual range of photos and sets will be agreed in final protocol)
1. Apple – Brown horse - Ship.
2. Orange sunset (water) - Black and white Circle clock shape - The house in the threes (autumn-winter).
3. Candles - Ship “Titanic” – Houses street (with a blue sky).
4. Etc…
Preparation:
By a third party in a separate room all the pictures that are used in the testing will be placed into letter sized envelopes and then place the letter sized envelopes into larger manila envelopes.
The envelopes will be checked for marks, folds, creases etc by JREF representatives before being brought into the test room.
Each envelope in the set will then be marked-numbered according to agreed list 1 – 15 using a pencil.
The numbers should be marked slightly by pencil in the corner of the envelope from the back side of it, so that can be visible on the envelope in order to identify the current pair by the number on it.
The marks should be made in the following order.
Photos of the Apple, Brown Horse and the photo of the Ship will be placed in double envelopes and all 3 of them marked with number ONE to make a set of three envelopes marked with number 1.
Etc… according to agreed list of photos and pairs.
For each run there, shell be prepared separate set of envelopes, in order to save time in replacing photos in the new envelopes and remarking them. So if there will be agreed 3 runs/trials by 30 sets each, in this case 3 identical sets of 90 sets of three in each have to be prepared in advance.
(If we agree to use sets of 15 per run and 2 runs per trial, in this case 2 identical sets by 15, shell be prepared to be able to use 2 sets (30 photos) per trial.)
Test settings:
1. The photos will be placed in envelopes in separate room by a third party with the supervision of a JREF representatives who will make sure that there will be no interference in the process of preparation of the photo pairs for the test.
2. After I am situated, ready, and comfortable, I will cover my eyes with a mask and my ears with the plugs and will have 10 minutes to get ready and relax.
After that, the testing shell begin, and one random envelope from the first/any set shell be handed to me.
3. I would need up to 3 minutes to hold each envelope.
The test.
Marked envelopes arranged by the sets and with the label numbers on it matching the set, shell be arranged and prepared to be used in test.
By the third party (a person who was not involved in the process of placing photos in the envelopes), each set has to be shuffled to make sure that no one in the room including the person shuffling the envelopes, knows the order of the photos in sets. Then, one photo of the set will be chosen at random and passed to the person who will bring it to the room where the actual test will be held.
Alternatively, one single envelope from each set can be drawn at one time and carried in the testing room all together at once.
All the drawn out envelopes shell be reshuffled before they will be delivered to the testing room.
The person will give me the envelope of the current pair, with no words or any other sound signs that would in any way suggest or define the order number for the envelope from the pair that will be handed to me.
I will hold the envelope between my hands for a period of 1 to 3 minutes.
While I will hold it I will describe a laud the visions that I will be seeing, will draw them if necessary.
I will take the mask off and after that the number of the current set shell be showed to me with no words or any other signs. (Or I will look at it myself after I remove the mask.)
After the describing and possible drawings will be finished, I will hand the envelope back to the third party.
I will look to the list of sets that will be on the table to see what are the options of the set.
After I get to know what are the 3 options of the set, and will be able to compare/match the visions and signs that I sew while I held the envelope to one of 3 options, I will offer my guess for the photo that was held by me. **
After I announce the answer, the third party will open the envelope in front of everyone including me*** and will reveal the photo that was inside. Then the result will be recorded as either correct or incorrect by me and by the JREF or any other party who will be in the room.
The same procedure will be done with all sets of photos in current run. And during all runs that will be agreed, until the last envelope will be identified by me and my “guess” will be announced.
I would need 5 minutes brake between each 5 photo sets. In case, if set of 15 will be used per run, and it will need 2 runs in order to achieve 30 pairs trial. I would need 5/10 minutes brake between every 15 sets and 10/15 minutes between trials with every next set of 30.
After all the tests-runs will be complete, the JREF representative will announce the results for the Preliminary Test as either Positive or Negative.
Remarks:
*A single paper sheet with thumbnail images of the pictures in order of the sets also labeled from 1 to 15 will be on the table with me on each run. In addition, I would need a pencil and drawing book, to make notes and marks/drawings.
Or the list of all the pairs in the order that was agreed before, (without thumbnail images on it, to avoid confusion and the chance that seeing pictures any extra time before “guess”, will make an imprint in my mind and will affect the answer for naming the right envelope).
ALTERNATIVELY, BOTH LIST OF SETS AND LIST WITH THUMBNAILS WILL BE ON THE TABLE, SO I WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE PICTURES IF NECCECARY TO MAKE A BETTER MATCH TO MY VISONS.
Either way will be agreed in the final protocol.
With the list of pairs I will be able to get to know what the photos are in the current set without any sounds and annunciations. For that reason the envelopes that will be handed to me have to be marked in strict order that will be agreed, from 1st to the 15.
**If I am not sure in my answer, I would like to announce it by saying “I am not sure” and that envelope shell be placed a side and I shell try to identify it after the rest of the pairs in run have been named.
In case that I am unsure of a few envelopes, all of them shall be put aside (remaining in the same room but off the table) until the end of my “work” with the rest of the pairs. After the current run will be over, (all the envelopes from current run was named), the “doubted” envelopes shall be reshuffled and in random passed to me for the final identification.
The purpose of using the mask and earplugs is to eliminate an extra distraction such as sound and light, which will help me to concentrate better. At the same time, the mask, earplugs and the list of pairs at the test, will help to eliminate chances that I am “guessing” which envelope, by reading the vocal and body signals from the person holding the envelopes and naming it.
*** I need to know the result of my “guess” immediately after I name the photo. I prefer this because, when I hold the envelope I am trying to foresee what will I actually see when the photo will be revealed. By asking myself – “What picture will I see when the envelope will be open”. For this reason, it is important for me and necessary to see the actual photo immediately after I offer my “guess” during the test. And not in the end of run, when I will be seeing all the photos that was in random envelopes.
Notes:
1. No talking (or signaling!) during the test from any person who will be present in room.
2. No text messaging or phone calls allowed, as the sms and call alerts can distract my concentration and affect the result of my answer. (The smsing during the test is not permitted either, as the sound of the constantly clicking buttons can be very irritating and distracting). For that reason, all mobile phones in the room, must be switched to a silent mode to eliminate interruptions of the testing. If anyone needs to make calls or sms, it can be done during the brake between runs
3. Any person that is present at the testing may raise his or her hand during the demonstration to inform the others of suspicious behavior of anyone in the room. However, no shouting or interruptions will be allowed during the process of identifying the photo. If there are any doubts or suspicions, the person shall raise his/her hand silently and inform the others after I have finished with identification of the current photo and announced my answer.
I would prefer:
1. I want to do the test in United States, in Charlotte, North Carolina to avoid traveling that can affect my state due to the road sickness or the climate change. Testing should be done in the presence of objective people which both as JREF and I can trust. I want to be able to approve the people that are present during the testing, e.g. it can’t be more than 10 people in the room during the test.
2. I want to bring with me a friend Vladimir Sirovitskiy who will be present at the testing as a support.
After the test will start, there will be no talking or any kind of communication between us until the test will be complete and the last photo will be identified and announced.
3. I also would like Dr. Eric D. Heggestad, and Dr. Linda Shanock, the academics that tested me to produce affidavit letters for application for the challenge, to be present during the test (if they are able to attend it) as the independent parties and witnesses –supervisors.
4. I would like the testing to take place in the afternoon, as I would need time to have rest and sleep enough hours and get ready for the test. (As due to the stress with the upcoming test I might have a problem to sleep) For example, it can start at 1 pm where I will arrive at 12 noon, an hour before.
5. I would prefer the weather conditions to be good at the day of testing, as I am sensitive to the low atmospheric pressure and often get headaches, feel low and tired when it is cloudy and the atmospheric pressure is low.
6. I prefer to know the result of my “guess” immediately after I name the photo. I prefer this because, when I hold the envelope I am trying to foresee what will I actually see when the photo will be revealed. By asking myself – “What picture will I see when the envelope will be open”. For this reason, it is important for me and necessary to see the actual photo immediately after I offer my “guess” during the test.
Sincerely yours,
Pavel
P.S.
In order to be able to understand better the way my ability to “see” photos work, I would like to explain a bit about how I see things. I am sure that will help you to understand me better and knowing them and considering during the negotiations will be useful in producing the test protocol that will be used for testing of abilities that is claimed by me.
First of all.
I do not see things in exact way and the same as we all see in a physical way with our eyes. What I do see it is shapes, colors, sometimes-exact things but all of it related in some way to the photo that I hold. It is all the time different, I can’t order my self to see a color or let say what shape it is… I see what I see. For that reason it is really hard to make big set with different pictures as most of them in one or the other way have similar shapes texture colors etc.. I tried and worked on it that how I know it…
So if we take en example with pair of the photos, Pyramid and an Apple. If I hold one of the photo, and I see something ROUND or no shapes but RAD color etc.. So when I told that the pair contains Pyramid and the Apple, I will know there is an apple that I held in my hands, be cause pyramids has no red color on photo and it is not in a round shape. But I said above, every time I see different thing.. like with example of photo with Statue of liberty and let say dogs… many times I sew a SHIP or the OCEAN when I held statue of liberty. So I know the photo I hold is related to the water, so out of two options ( Liberty and dogs) Liberty facing ships and surrounded by water so that is the photo.. That is how I see usually.
Recent example… I held photo (random) and I sew a BOW (weapon) with the arrow in side… the pair from the list was Clock black and white and the African elephant, so I know it was CLOCK as it is in a round shape and the BOW with arrow look like in some way a like a half of the clock that is showing 3 o’clock. And it was a clock! Or like I hold envelope and I see MOUNTAINS… I know there is no mountains on the photos. So when the pair was announced one of two photo was Pyramids so I know it is Pyramids as the shape I sew resembles Pyramids and I was right…
I hope it is clear in some way, if you have any question I am happy to answer them.
Another things…
Why cant it be let say only 2 photos say APPLE and CROSS… say 25 each that would make 50 in all.. seem easy I need to separate them in each pile… Yes that is not a problem.. BUT in this case, though I am psychic but I am a human the brain and mind still work in normal way and it is not always help. Example, we use set of 50 photos with 25 each. 25 of Apples and 25 of Crosses, that was shuffled in order to bring them to a random. I hold first two photos and sew round thing.. OK great that the Apple.. and I am right... But when I will hold 3dh or forth envelope and If I will still keep seeing round thing that would signify apple, my brain will get involved in doubting me… Like “saying” it CANT BE an apple 4 times in a row it just mix up, u sew it last time...
Though I know it can be possible that all 25 in row will happen to be APPLES… but I cant switch off brain and that the case. For that reason It is not that simple as it seem from first look and can not be used in testing of my ability as it will not allow me to perform it with best results.
IF you looked at the list of the pairs each pair has different photo in different colors and shapes and structure… It is almost impossible have all completely different photos.. If I would see always exact colors when I hold it that would be easy I would make 40 different colors photos and would see them all exact. But as I said… I see all the time different, sometimes shapes sometimes colors some time exact thing or something that relates to the picture.
From my last practices I realize that I can perform better IF I don’t know current pair that I hold, so I hold first the photo I see what I see, I can describe what I see and make drawings… than when I know what are the options I can make my answer based ON WHAT I SAW… that helps, to remove some destructions like: I don’t know what I hold (as pairs will be mixed and will be handled to me in random) So I am more relax and my brain not interferes in a sense that, If say it is run number 2 (with the same photos), I have to hold 4th pair and it is say Cross and the Elephant…
If the last time I held it, it was Cross and this time I will see cross sign or something in shape of cross or even just black and white lines… so that would all resemble the cross photo.. so again I will be doubting if it is a cross again or just “memory game” and doubts never helps as I said before… Same thing with the shapes and colors… so by holding the pair in any order and describing it first helps to be more “independent” from mind games..
The test protocol that I proposed above, is based on the results of my experiments with pairs, zenner cards, 3 out of 10 or 20 and many others and paying attentions to the results and what can affect it in one or the other way.
I am willing and ready to work and negotiate with JREF, and I am sure we can and will work out the best and most suitable protocol that will satisfy both sides. As long as both sides are willing and ready to listen to each other and explain to each other why one or the other thing can or can’t be in protocol. And the points and opinions of the other side, is taken to consideration.
Startz
Muse
I quite agree on applauding honest results. I'll be fair and note that had you claimed results of "25 of 30" on each set people would be less likely to believe the reporting was "honest".
Even simply testing yourself deserves some note in the world of JREF applicants. In a skeptic's view, "I tested myself and results were not quite as planned, but I'm going to practice/make adjustments and try again until I am ready for the challenge" is likely to be a perpetual and ultimately fruitless struggle, but I shall wish you luck nonetheless. How nice it would be to have a successful applicant before the conclusion of the challenge.
Coveredinbeeees
Scholar
- Joined
- May 30, 2007
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- 108
Thanks for the interim report. I have a theory and a couple of questions.
First, my theory as to why the JREF may not wish you to see the contents of the envelope immediately after each guess.
Having agreed to do a run of 15 sets, if you guess wrongly on the first three sets you may become dejected and wish to end the run. Even if the run continues you could claim that it went poorly, not because of any lack of clairvoyance on your part, but from the "bad vibes" of having got the first few wrong.
If, on the other hand, you got the first 3 correct, you would certainly wish to finish the run and would probably be in quite a good state of mind.
This bias is, i believe, responsible for many delusions. Runs which begin poorly are dismissed as pointless while runs which begin well are continued to completion. By eliminating the runs with poor starts the statistics are skewed and the subject will appear to do consistently better than chance.
It is only by completing the run before checking the results that such cherry-picking can be avoided.
Even if you do not leave yourself the option to bail out of a run you must admit that getting the first few sets wrong would affect your state of mind.
Now, my question. When you were doing your tests to establish this ability to beat chance in guessing what photograph was in the envelope, did you ever dismiss a run after getting the first few sets wrong? Did you ever stop after 5 sets and say something along the lines of "you know what? I'm really not into this right now, let's start a fresh run in 10 minutes and scratch these results. It wasn't a full run anyway so it didn't count."
If you ever did anything like this it could easily explain your conviction that you can guess with higher accuracy than chance. Completing each run before checking the results would eliminate such temptation and allow you to trust your results a bit more.
If you always complete your runs and always count their results then the point made above is not really a concern but you can hopefully see why the JREF might prefer to check the results only when the run, or the trial, is complete.
First, my theory as to why the JREF may not wish you to see the contents of the envelope immediately after each guess.
Having agreed to do a run of 15 sets, if you guess wrongly on the first three sets you may become dejected and wish to end the run. Even if the run continues you could claim that it went poorly, not because of any lack of clairvoyance on your part, but from the "bad vibes" of having got the first few wrong.
If, on the other hand, you got the first 3 correct, you would certainly wish to finish the run and would probably be in quite a good state of mind.
This bias is, i believe, responsible for many delusions. Runs which begin poorly are dismissed as pointless while runs which begin well are continued to completion. By eliminating the runs with poor starts the statistics are skewed and the subject will appear to do consistently better than chance.
It is only by completing the run before checking the results that such cherry-picking can be avoided.
Even if you do not leave yourself the option to bail out of a run you must admit that getting the first few sets wrong would affect your state of mind.
Now, my question. When you were doing your tests to establish this ability to beat chance in guessing what photograph was in the envelope, did you ever dismiss a run after getting the first few sets wrong? Did you ever stop after 5 sets and say something along the lines of "you know what? I'm really not into this right now, let's start a fresh run in 10 minutes and scratch these results. It wasn't a full run anyway so it didn't count."
If you ever did anything like this it could easily explain your conviction that you can guess with higher accuracy than chance. Completing each run before checking the results would eliminate such temptation and allow you to trust your results a bit more.
If you always complete your runs and always count their results then the point made above is not really a concern but you can hopefully see why the JREF might prefer to check the results only when the run, or the trial, is complete.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
This appears to state your claim pretty well:
These appear to refute your claim pretty well:
This appears to be a little of both:
All in one post??eleven? What about the pixels? Won't someone please think about the pixels?
These appear to refute your claim pretty well:
This appears to be a little of both:
All in one post??eleven? What about the pixels? Won't someone please think about the pixels?
Hey Mate , thanks for the honest report.
I was wondering the same thing as coverdinbees did u count all runs as they happened or do u abandon any runs that arent going so well?
I just tried the same protocol as u did, my results 15/30 12/30 and 9/30. so u beat me
I was wondering the same thing as coverdinbees did u count all runs as they happened or do u abandon any runs that arent going so well?
I just tried the same protocol as u did, my results 15/30 12/30 and 9/30. so u beat me
pavel_do
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
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- 363
Hey Mate , thanks for the honest report.
I was wondering the same thing as coverdinbees did u count all runs as they happened or do u abandon any runs that arent going so well?
I just tried the same protocol as u did, my results 15/30 12/30 and 9/30. so u beat me
=) well MAte, good results, but I am sure if you would try with 3 photos… and each set of 3 is deferent. The results would be deferent
( I assume you did it with the same set of 3 and in this case every next time you (your brain) would say.. like.. hey.. last time there was “ship” so there in less chance that the ship will come up again.. so we drop the ship out of 3 options…pavel_do
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
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- 363
I am honestly never stopped the run if first a few go wrong… and I will explain why.
First of all every time I make mistakes, I make a record of what set and what photo in order to understand why, so then I can improve the results by changing the photos in the sets, as most of my mistake is due to confusion between photos, when photos might have same things. It is difficult to make really deferent from each other sets as I have explained before, as in one or the other way, picture have similar shapes, colors structure etc.. for that reason to make 20 sets of 2 was easier than to make 15 sets of 3. Even my results with sets of 2 is better as I told u my last time out of 20 pairs I was right with 15.
But now I am "working" with sets of 3 and it make it a bit more defecult.
Like I had a set of Tree in the field, running horse in forest and a Earth from the Space. At first look nice deferent photos.. but, when I hold the envelope I saw a nature (not knowing what are the options). And I got confused with the answer because there was as green field same and forest on the photo with horse both with the nature. (sorry to repeat again but I don’t see exact photo as it is most of the times it is related shapes, colors etc.)
Yes in a way, getting first photos wrong would not be the best thing, and would not raise my “mood” BUT sometimes it does happen when I don’t see right let say 3-5 firs photos, and then it switch and 5-7 in row I see correct.
The results will be the same whether they will be open immediately or after words, it does not affect it. But it does make deference for me and my results.
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pavel_do
Critical Thinker
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- Aug 7, 2007
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Tried to explain how I “see” in more details, in order to be understood better. Cause, as I said if I would see EXACT photo as it is, there would be no problems and would be no need for all those remarks and explanations.
pavel_do
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
- Messages
- 363
I am fine with points of what is 2 and what is 3. Even funny you got два and три as well. But the other points that you made in a ways have nothing to do with me or with anything that I ever said. Never said that I have to do something with any of them or that I am like “pest” jumping on every one in order to promote me or support…
Any ways, forgotten.. we move one and the time will kindly show us..
p.s.What do you think about my new test propose, about the "conditions" and preferences?
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I am fine with points of what is 2 and what is 3. Even funny you got два and три as well. But the other points that you made in a ways have nothing to do with me or with anything that I ever said. Never said that I have to do something with any of them or that I am like “pest” jumping on every one in order to promote me or support…
Any ways, forgotten.. we move one and the time will kindly show us..
p.s.What do you think about my new test propose, about the "conditions" and preferences?
I do not think I can contribute anything productive in this thread any more. My interests remain solely with the conclusion of the test - should it happen.
Good day, Pavel.
pavel_do
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
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- 363
Not to repeat my self, I answered this a few times, if you have a time to look at my posts above about test with 2 photos. However, I have to say that some of the pictures in the sets are “the same” just in deferent variations.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Not to repeat yourself? One of the main reasons that that people are having problems in understanding your claim is that you never say the same thing twice. It's no use telling people that you've already answered, when obviously you haven't. Otherwise, people wouldn't be asking you to clarify things all the time. Instead of taking the time to make an obscure reference to some previous post, why not just answer the bleeding question.
Further, you've already attempted to redefine "pair" as "a set of two or three items", and now it seems that "the same" is to be redefined as "having deferent variations" (are they obsequious about it, or just quietly subordinate?).
I think you should at least try to use the same meanings for words as everyone else mate - it really would help.
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