Angelika Graswald

[anglolawyer]

I haven't seen any such references and there was no mention of an eyewitness in the 48 Hours program. If have a link handy pass it on.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/death-on-the-hudson/

Not handy, unfortunately, but I'm sure I've seen reference to one or more witnesses seeing something incriminating - such as her deliberately tipping herself into the water. That one is mentioned upthread.

 

[Desert Fox]

The case seems another example of "Never talk to the cops."

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

But why would you ever remove the plug? I mean other than to do the emptying thing, whereon you put it straight back. The best place to keep it is in the plug hole, obviously. Do you keep your bath plug in a safe deposit box at the bank, or on a shelf in the garage? No!!! You keep it in the *********** bath! Why would you ever keep it anywhere else?

Speaking from my own experience with boats with watertight hull compartments, it is common to leave bilge plugs out so that the interior of the space can dry thoroughly. Merely pouring the water out isn't sufficient to do that.

I left the plugs out on the hulls of my Hobies until it was time to launch them, and took them out as soon as the boat was trailered again.

I used plugs with "Tee" chain retainers so that the plug would always be right there with the boat, but I had to buy them myself. The ones that came with the boat didn't have anything like that. You had to keep up with them yourself

PITA.

Also, like computer users who haven't lost data, most small boat owners have managed at least once to launch a boat without checking that the bilge plugs were secured and learning the hard way that they weren't. The ones that haven't are probably going to. It's almost a rite of passage.

 

[quadraginta]

My one kayaking adventure was in a calm lake in Orlando Florida, nothing like that either.

I have sailed in weather something like that. Large sailboat in a powerful thunderstorm. I was pretty dumb in that I did not put my life vest on when should have.

Discussed it with my sailing partner and we decided that the first thing to do when a storm approaches is to put on vests. Once the storm hit, we were too busy keeping everything safe.

So. Do you keep your life jacket on now?

 

[quadraginta]

For 'failing to help him' to amount to a crime she would need to be under a positive duty to help in the first place and, generally speaking, no such duty exists. If you see someone drowning in the canal as you walk by you can just watch if you like. There is no obligation to do anything at all.

If you can't throw them something or reach them with a device then doing nothing at all is actually the best alternative unless you have formal training. Recommended by professionals. That way the drowning victims don't start stacking up.

This happens a lot more than people realize. Going into the water to try and rescue someone is incredibly dangerous. Would-be rescuers often become additional victims.

 

[Desert Fox]

So. Do you keep your life jacket on now?

Yes. . . . .Actually what I shoudl say is that as soon as weather looks bad, I put it on. We are talking about a big boat and pretty safe under normal conditions.

 

[anglolawyer]

If you can't throw them something or reach them with a device then doing nothing at all is actually the best alternative unless you have formal training. Recommended by professionals. That way the drowning victims don't start stacking up.

This happens a lot more than people realize. Going into the water to try and rescue someone is incredibly dangerous. Would-be rescuers often become additional victims.

My son taught me some of this stuff when he qualified as a life guard. A lot of the skill involves staying safe yourself.

 

[anglolawyer]

A short clip here on the dangers of kayaking on the Hudson River. This case looks more and more like bull.

 

[Desert Fox]

A short clip here on the dangers of kayaking on the Hudson River. This case looks more and more like bull.

You might be interested to note that Bob of Serial Dynasty is suppose to try to interview Jim Trainum in his next podcast.

 

[RWVBWL]

"Hold on Baby"...

<snip>
I was pretty dumb in that I did not put my life vest on when should have.

Discussed it with my sailing partner and we decided that the first thing to do when a storm approaches is to put on vests. Once the storm hit, we were too busy keeping everything safe.

So. Do you keep your life jacket on now?

I've read that Vinnie and AG were experienced kayakers.

Maybe that is why Angelika
seen paddling with an apparent storm front arriving,
was not wearing her own lifejacket in this photo she posted on social media just days after
she did not do more "save" her wingman, err, her Fiance...

"If only I could have paddled harder, dammit".
Pfffft.

I really luv listening to the 911 call.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/drowned-dramatic-911-call-reveals-details-york-kayak/story?id=33684847

"Hold on Baby!"


For some reason my gut feeling is that she was going for it,
going thru, in 46° water, with a cold bloodied plan,
and she really wanted to say:
Hurry up and drown, ****^^!

Luv her downward-looking eyes in her TV interview as Vinnie is still missing.
"He was trying to figure out how to paddle the waves, because they were getting crazy,
and, and then I just saw him flip, ah, I saw him struggling a little".

So Vinnie was trying to figure out the waves.
But not you???
Hmmmm.

I wonder who was the more experienced kayaker of the 2?
Surely she was not, right?


I mean come on,
who would unscrew a connecting lock on the paddle of your Fiance
that helps it so it does not come apart?

I wonder if her cat was also playing with this lock on his gear,
so ah, that was why she unscrewed it, ya know, not let the kitty play with it
like she did when removing Vinnie's kayaks drainage plug...
Damn cat!


I also liked her selfie vid
as she filmed herself driving back to the yacht club,
as seen + heard in that ABC link above.

"What a beautiful day.
Arriving at the Cornwall Yacht Club, yes."

Gosh, she could have at least broken down and started freaking out a bit,
ya know, like Miss Amanda Knox did when she was taken back into the flat
that she shared with Meredith Kercher just a day or 2 after that rape + murder.


I mean, come on chick,
even though you'd been married + divorced 2 times already,
your Fiance is out there somewhere in the water!!!


Odd that the wind, waves and current were apparently sooo strong
that she could not paddle back towards and stay near him as they waited for help.
Not by zig-zaging nor paddling like someones life depended on it + heading right into the wind.
Golly gee, that pic of her paddlin' with-out a lifejacket on sure makes it seem like she knew how ta paddle...

Yet when Vinnie's body was found a over a month later,
the currents, tide and river flow had only taken his body about 1 mile downstream.
Rough currents, huh?

My 2¢ only,
RW

 

[anglolawyer]

So, how did she do it? What's this about unscrewing his paddle? Do they come in parts?

 

[RWVBWL]

Missing Screw

So, how did she do it? What's this about unscrewing his paddle? Do they come in parts?

Hi Anglolawyer,
This pic below shows the area where the 2 blades of Vinnie's kayak paddle were connected. You slid them together, align the blades how ya want them, some paddlers like the blades even, ya know, line-up on the same plane, some folks like the blades to be off-set from each other, it's a personal preference depending on your stroke style. Then you simply screw them tight.

Note that 1 of his locking screws is missing.


Watch the linked 48 Hours vid here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrogation-video-raises-key-questions-in-new-york-kayak-murder-case/
The vid, at around the 26 to 28 minute mark shows the paddle.

From that link,
here's a kinda overlooked clue that she wanted him dead, in my opinion:
But Angelika Graswald is also accused of tampering with Viafore's paddle -- removing the ring that police believe holds the two sides of the paddle together.

No way the cat was playing with the locking screw
+ it made Angelika unscrew and remove that locking screw,
like was her excuse when busted that she removed Vinnie's drainage plug...

This is an interesting clue,
in my humble opinion,
when 1 is trying to understand if she pre-planned
and then tried to kill Vinnie.

And if she did,
how did she then do so.

I have a theory on this...
My 2¢ only,
RW

 

[RWVBWL]

Hi Randy. Good to see you on this thread. Experienced 'yakkers' are much needed. 'Yes' is the answer to your Injustice Anywhere question. A thread opened up there just recently.

Hi Anglolawyer,
can ya post a link to the IA thread?
Thanks,

In recent days we have learned that she told the cops the plug was removed months before. We also now know the pathologist vastly exceeded her brief by pronouncing that the death was the result of murder by removal of plug, which is actually funny, or it would be.

I thought I recall reading just today that Angelika told the cops she removed the plug in April,
now I'll have to double check my saved links again.
I wonder when she unscrewed the locking screw on his paddle?

In our case, there is no shark hunting (erm, are you sure that's wise?) just river kayaking on the Hudson in the wrong type of boat, in suddenly and unexpected bad weather, with no buoyancy aid, dry suit or wet suit and having drunk a little bit (not that much so maybe irrelevant). The badly holed kayak which had become totally unseaworthy by virtue of its missing plug miraculously failed to sink and instead bobbed its way to shore like a riderless horse in a race over the jumps.

Have you an initial opinion?

Hiya once again Anglolawyer,
I've been yaking here in Southern California for over 5 years now,
got into it because I was curious of an old '89 story about how a guy and girl, who went out kayaking just up the road from where I'm at the beach right now, disappeared and then over 2 days later, she was found, by chance, dead, floating face down barely visible under the waters surface as the day was ending on a Saturday in January. 28 miles away up the coast from where they left for a quick 1+1/2 mile trip up to Paradise Cove and then back.
She was killed by a Great White Shark.

I've done extensive research into this,
and because of this old shark attack, got in looking for sharks and kayaking for pleasure,
so I've spent hundreds of, if not over a thousand of hours paddling yaks or watching for sharks near shore since then.

I'm starting to learn
how to edit some of my videos,
here's a clip of a bitchin' shark drive by
and also of a 10 foot shark breaching about 50 feet away from me,
which happened at the beach where I am at right now.

Watch this on a computer if ya get a chance,
I'm in my 10 foot yak as I videoed these near shore sharks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxtaKmSgu7k


Anyways,
my kayaking experience has me wondering how Vinnie
could have fallen in the water if he was experienced, and not very drunk.
And she did not fall in....

The winds and waves were not too high, most likely, in their experience,
or they could have easily aborted the trip and called the Cornwall Yacht Club for help,
it seems people knew of them there.

If they were scared,
they would have been verrry cautious when coming back.
No horsing around.

Was it an accident?
Vinnie just fell in, could not get the kayak overturned +/or unswamped,
Angelika just sat there watching as he surely cussed and tried to save himself?

Or is there a way that Angelika initiated the whole incident.
It's premeditated, ya might say.

How could Angelika have surely gotten Vinnie tossed in the water?
Without his lifejacket on?

Easy.
Take out the drainage plug, help his yak take on abitta water.
The wind chop or any swells splashing around
would be also getting into the seating area, the cockpit,
which should have had a cover on it, called a skirt,
does not appear to have been used by either of these 2.
They were both using sit-inside kayaks, where your legs go inside the yak.
He might go in the water at some point. Maybe.

It's not a sure way of getting him into the cold 46° water and trouble.

Better yet,
unscrew 1 of his locking screws on his paddles also.
If he looses a paddle, it is very difficult, if not impossible to paddle a yak without a paddle,
or even 1/2 of 1, in any windy conditions.

Here's what I can see happenin':
They paddle out into the water.
Pull up abreast, near him under a ruse,
Baby, come here, I need a Kiss!

He being the dude, a coupla cold Modelo beers in him,
woulda paddled over quick, alongside her, I'd bet.
Take his paddle, use it to brace them both by placing it on each others lap.
Lean in, get the Kiss.
2, 3, or more, yea!

(The other day I got a fun smootch from a gal pal who kinda likes me
as I was surfing, well, ah waiting out in the line-up for my next ride.
Hey Randy, come here, I need a kiss, hahaha...)

Pulling apart,
and she pushes him over.

Remember she's an experienced yaker.
She did not fall into the water when he did, she has good balance.

As do I, especially when I look for sharks.
As do my friends when miles offshore, we stop, converse and have lunch together,
bracing or sometimes tying up our yaks back to front...
Fall in the water? Rare.

I wonder how often either Vinnie or Angelika had fallen in the waters on previous outings?

When he fell, he mighta grabbed at or for his kayak paddle,
it's a very normal thing to grab for, you hold it in you hands for sooo many hours when paddling.

Vinnie's paddle,
it coulda easily came apart, it's not locked on 1 side,
unless it is old and crusted, like mine, always in salt water...

Odd that she took his paddle from him.

You can not paddle a kayak without a paddle.
But it can help you out there to have it in your grasp...

I wonder if she had to put it back together out in the water
as he tried to figure out what was goin' on out there,
and no body was watching...

Or was there?

It also seems that it took her,
IIRC, some 20 minutes to make the 911 call for help.
"Hold on Baby".
Hmmmm...

My opinion only,
RW

 

[whoanellie]

I thought I recall reading just today that Angelika told the cops she removed the plug in April,
now I'll have to double check my saved links again.
I wonder when she unscrewed the locking screw on his paddle?






Easy.
Take out the drainage plug, help his yak take on abitta water.
The wind chop or any swells splashing around
would be also getting into the seating area, the cockpit,
which should have had a cover on it, called a skirt,
does not appear to have been used by either of these 2.
They were both using sit-inside kayaks, where your legs go inside the yak.
He might go in the water at some point. Maybe.
...

My opinion only,
RW

Here's a picture of the kayak in question.
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=2434

THere's a rather large hole (18" x 40"??) where the paddler sits. There is a very small drain plug on the top surface of the kayak on the lower left of the kayak in the picture (less than 1" in diameter?). Taking the drain plug out would only let in a tiny amount of water in comparison to the main hole for the paddler. The drain plug is not a factor in this accident.
In the interrogation the Graswald says the drain plug was removed months earlier while the detective insists it was done recently. In the bits I've heard, Graswald finally gives in and says it was removed "in April". From her words and tone it is clear to me that she was simply giving in to the demands of the detective - classic false confession. The detective also insists, incorrectly, that the drain plug was on the bottom of the kayak.
I've not heard any evidence that the missing part from the paddle weakened the paddle or impaired its performance. A similar paddled seemed to be working just fine in the 48 Hours show.
They were both out in rough conditions. He should have had a skirt, a life preserver, etc. She is lucky to be alive, he didn't make it.

 

[anglolawyer]

Randy

Here is the IA link: http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=3294

In your hypothesis about the paddle, she has to be 100% sure he will die as a result of her tampering. Could she be that sure?

Watch out for them sharks! Jeez.

 

[RWVBWL]

Randy

Here is the IA link: http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=3294

In your hypothesis about the paddle, she has to be 100% sure he will die as a result of her tampering. Could she be that sure?

Watch out for them sharks! Jeez.

Hi Anglolawyer,
Thanks for the link!



From the video of this link:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak...ation-video-reveals-details/story?id=33696436

At the 5:15 to 5:25 time frame of the vid on the right side,
There's an interesting discussion, I'll quote Kayak Instructor Carl Ladd
If she wanted to kill him by kayak,
all she had to do was basically capsize his boat and paddle away.

Without capsizing her own.
That's it!
Easy.

And that is what mighta happened.

I'd like to ask Carl Ladd,
what do you think of a gal who had previously unscrewed and loosend his kayak paddle
so that her kitty does not play with it, err I mean so it might break apart if he needs to use it
to reach out for help as he tries to make it back to shore?


The dude was tossed in the water,
he couldn't get back in a dry yak,
he had no hope of surviving long.

These 2 were experienced kayakers,
they'd been doing it for years, from what I've read.

Though I'd betcha that Vinnie was a better drinker than I,
I've read today, IIRC that he was a good swimmer also,
and not a huuuge risk taker.


So I'll ask myself,
or a few of the bros when I see them
what would you have done?

Call out for help, sit, wait, and watch?
NO! We are on our own out there!
My wingman has to have my back,
as I do his, all the time!

We woulda came up with a plan, quickly.
Like this 1 that I saw mentioned today as I did research about this case:

Have him grasp the end of her yak, and she shoulda then dug deep,
paddled like hell, steam rolled, In think it was called,
going with, not against the current and wind + heading towards the closest land
as fast as possible as he also helped too by swimmin', err kickkin' his feet to get to shore.
He mighta made it, in my opinion...

 

[RWVBWL]

Euphoric.

Euphoric.

That is the answer Angelika Graswald gave to a question
that 1 of the detectives whom she,
already having been told of her Miranda Rights,
was chatting with and had not even finished bein' asked about her feelings of seeing Vinnie in the water!

Watch the link,
4:14 on the video clip:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak...ation-video-reveals-details/story?id=33696436

Detective:
When you watched him in the water,
was a part of you saying my worries are going away now?

Angelika: Yeah.

Detective: Where you almost...

Angelica: Euphoric?

Detective: Euphoric that he was going to be gone?

Gnarly!
My 2¢ only,
RW

 

[anglolawyer]

How do you capsize the other guys boat? When he is twice your size and weight. Again, you have to be sure you can do it and sure he will die as a result. And what happened to theory no. 1 (the one with the plug)?

 

[RWVBWL]

Hobby or Homocide?

How do you capsize the other guys boat? When he is twice your size and weight. Again, you have to be sure you can do it and sure he will die as a result. And what happened to theory no. 1 (the one with the plug)?

Hi Anglolawyer,
I might need to show you guys what I mean,
ya know, pull out the yak, get a bro, paddle out
and shoot a quick video demonstration.

I don't think that Vinnie was twice her size,
I think he wighed about 185 or so
and she doesn't appear to be that small of a gal,
there's a pic of her and him, on a beach, her thigh posed cutely...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/01/19/2835E7A200000578-3064520-image-a-17_1430503296930.jpg

Anyways,
that said, I'm kinda intrigue by this case.
An Accident or a Brutally Cold° Murder?

Here's the area where it happened:
Google Map Earth:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...2!3m1!1s0x89dd328942021087:0x2df34ada8dd83d86

That island, seen from up above, looks far away.
It is not, looks like less than a mile away from Plum Point.

I'm curious where the incident happened...

Here's the destination,
nice place to play, err plan a murder:

Lastly,
here's an interesting read from NewsWeek,
tells a bit more than the average newspaper reports:
http://www.newsweek.com/hobby-or-ho...appearance-turned-murder-investigation-332946

See ya,
RW

 

[catsmate]

If you can't throw them something or reach them with a device then doing nothing at all is actually the best alternative unless you have formal training. Recommended by professionals. That way the drowning victims don't start stacking up.

This happens a lot more than people realize. Going into the water to try and rescue someone is incredibly dangerous. Would-be rescuers often become additional victims.

Damn right; Reach, Throw, Wade, Row.