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Angelika Graswald

catsmate said:
Yep that "report" is rubbish.
Click to expand...

I agree. Another point that can be taken from it concerns the question of causation. We now know the state's case: she pulled the plug out intending that he would drown as a result. If, in fact, that was not the cause of him drowning but something unrelated to the plug, such as the bad weather and choppy water, then what she did (assuming it can be proved she did anything at all) did not cause him to die. In that case, her intent is irrelevant. She cannot be guilty of the crime of murder.
 
Greetings.

I surf.
BUT I also kayak, I drink, I **** chicks,
and I like to look for sharks in my 10 foot research kayak...

I'm gonna start to dig into this case,
so ah, please write back, ok?

By the way,
I'll paddle out most any day, in any type of weather.
Usually by myself. In a different yak, a 16ft Cobra Tourer with rudder
and a cheee-it load of safety gear to ah, help save my arse,
err, ah, well to at least try to call out or ah, signal for help...

Longest trip heading outward from the shoreline in Los Angeles
was at a compass heading of 180° for the 1st 5 miles or so,
and then at 185° which put me a lil' over 10 miles out.
Still had ta head back in to shore.
No sharks, whale. dolphins seen then.

I've paddled the whole of The Santa Monica Bay coastline of Los Angeles.
Every single mile of the coastal shoreline, from Pt. Magu Rock, down to the bouy 1 mile off Palos Verdes. Been there, done it, maybe some of you will dig what I have to say when I start posting about this case you all are discussing, ok?

By the way,
is Injustice Anywhere coverin' this death,
err, or is that this murder case?
Just wonderin'?
RW
 
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Hi Randy. Good to see you on this thread. Experienced 'yakkers' are much needed. 'Yes' is the answer to your Injustice Anywhere question. A thread opened up there just recently.

In recent days we have learned that she told the cops the plug was removed months before. We also now know the pathologist vastly exceeded her brief by pronouncing that the death was the result of murder by removal of plug, which is actually funny, or it would be.

In our case, there is no shark hunting (erm, are you sure that's wise?) just river kayaking on the Hudson in the wrong type of boat, in suddenly and unexpected bad weather, with no buoyancy aid, dry suit or wet suit and having drunk a little bit (not that much so maybe irrelevant). The badly holed kayak which had become totally unseaworthy by virtue of its missing plug miraculously failed to sink and instead bobbed its way to shore like a riderless horse in a race over the jumps.

Have you an initial opinion?
 
anglolawyer said:
Hi Randy. Good to see you on this thread. Experienced 'yakkers' are much needed. 'Yes' is the answer to your Injustice Anywhere question. A thread opened up there just recently.

In recent days we have learned that she told the cops the plug was removed months before. We also now know the pathologist vastly exceeded her brief by pronouncing that the death was the result of murder by removal of plug, which is actually funny, or it would be.

In our case, there is no shark hunting (erm, are you sure that's wise?) just river kayaking on the Hudson in the wrong type of boat, in suddenly and unexpected bad weather, with no buoyancy aid, dry suit or wet suit and having drunk a little bit (not that much so maybe irrelevant). The badly holed kayak which had become totally unseaworthy by virtue of its missing plug miraculously failed to sink and instead bobbed its way to shore like a riderless horse in a race over the jumps. Have you an initial opinion?
Click to expand...
Outstanding Anglo, as someone who has watched a few riderless horses, this turn of phrase deserves nomination.
 
Did any one else see CBS' 48 Hours show on this case on 9/12/15?

The overall tone was heavily in favor of her being innocent.

1) The missing drain plug was actually on top of the kayak. The did a demonstration to show that the missing plug could not possibly be relevant.

2) They showed a lot of footage from the interrogation. They had a former police detective on who once got a woman convicted because of a false confession she gave to him. The detective has since become a expert on false confessions. He believed her confession was a false one.

I'm starting to think this case will never go to trial. All charges will be dropped.
 
anglolawyer said:
Hi Randy. Good to see you on this thread. Experienced 'yakkers' are much needed. 'Yes' is the answer to your Injustice Anywhere question. A thread opened up there just recently.

<snip>

Have you an initial opinion?
Click to expand...


Hi Anglolawyer,
I am Pro-Guilt.

From spending an hour or so or learning about this case,
I would vote to convict Miss Graswald of 2nd Degree Murder
or the lesser charge, I believe it is,
of Manslaughter.

It will be an interesting debate with some of you,
as this time I am, at the moment, on the side of Law Enforcement.

She seems to have had Motive.
$$$,$$$.00 is a lot of motive,
if true.

This is gonna be an interesting case to discuss.
Forgive me though, but I'm gonna bail out and read the previous 4 pages of this discussion now...
RW
 
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RWVBWL said:
Hi Anglolawyer,
I am Pro-Guilt.

From spending an hour or so or learning about this case,
I would vote to convict Miss Graswald of 2nd Degree Murder
or the lesser charge, I believe it is,
of Manslaughter.

It will be an interesting debate with some of you,
as this time I am, at the moment, on the side of Law Enforcement.

She seems to have had Motive.
$$$,$$$.00 is a lot of motive,
if true.

This is gonna be an interesting case to discuss.
Forgive me though, but I'm gonna bail out and read the previous 4 pages of this discussion now...
RW
Click to expand...

I will be interested to read your reasons.
 
whoanellie said:
Did any one else see CBS' 48 Hours show on this case on 9/12/15?

The overall tone was heavily in favor of her being innocent.

1) The missing drain plug was actually on top of the kayak. The did a demonstration to show that the missing plug could not possibly be relevant.

2) They showed a lot of footage from the interrogation. They had a former police detective on who once got a woman convicted because of a false confession she gave to him. The detective has since become a expert on false confessions. He believed her confession was a false one.

I'm starting to think this case will never go to trial. All charges will be dropped.
Click to expand...

I want to know how they will prove causation. Intent, motive, blah, blah, fine. How did she cause his death?
 
anglolawyer said:
I want to know how they will prove causation. Intent, motive, blah, blah, fine. How did she cause his death?
Click to expand...

I think its clear that she didn't.
Based on what I learned from the TV show, a good defense attorney will crucify the medical examiner when he/she testifies regarding her death by drain plug removal theory.
 
whoanellie said:
I think its clear that she didn't.
Based on what I learned from the TV show, a good defense attorney will crucify the medical examiner when he/she testifies regarding her death by drain plug removal theory.
Click to expand...

Will she get a good one however?
 
whoanellie said:
I think its clear that she didn't.
Based on what I learned from the TV show, a good defense attorney will crucify the medical examiner when he/she testifies regarding her death by drain plug removal theory.
Click to expand...

Well, there is still the mystery eye witness evidence that 'proves' she withdrew her paddle when he tried to hang onto it, not that that's enough but hey. Actually, even with no evil intent something like that might be necessary for ones own survival. Drowning people can be a danger to others.
 
anglolawyer said:
Well, there is still the mystery eye witness evidence that 'proves' she withdrew her paddle when he tried to hang onto it, not that that's enough but hey. Actually, even with no evil intent something like that might be necessary for ones own survival. Drowning people can be a danger to others.
Click to expand...

Is there any reason to believe such an eyewitness exists?
 
anglolawyer said:
I will be interested to read your reasons.
Click to expand...


Gosh,
I can have some fun debating this case
if I really feeeel like diggin' into it...

OK.

The dude and his chick are gonna bail back to land from the island.
It's getting darker, daylight is ending. They, or he, hadda few beers.
That's nothin' if the dude drank all the time,
which he did...

Drinkin, + his body fat woulda help him stay alive longer in the cold water
than if he were super lean + only weighting some 160lbs at his height,
ya know?

The wind, current, and white caps,
err, what the local folks might call waves,
have increased in size.
But the wind is only 16mph.

That wind ain't that strong.
Well at least not too strong to paddle into and/or against.

I've been out, doing research, on my yak,
and have measured winds gusting to 41mph,
blowing me off the shore.

And I could still make it back ashore.


The dude is in his yak, his chick in hers.
He is heavier, of a larger build, he is more stable in the water than she,
lighter, smaller than he,
is.

The water coming into the little hole ain't a big deal,
it's the water comin' into the seating area that is.
He would know that, no matter how drunk, buzzed or f****'ed up he was.
.06 ain't f***ed up, in my humble yakin' experience,
hahahaha...

But these 2 have paddled before.
They are not complete newbie kooks.
She should have been in front of him,
no way he is gonna paddle in dangerous conditions
while leaving her behind him, unless they are tied up together.
He is gonna keep any eye on his baby.

Whatever happened out there,
she was right there, near him.

So something happened.
A random chop hit him.
Or she saw her opportunity, knocked him off balance.
Who knows.

All of a sudden, he's in the water.
1st thing ya do is get back to your yak.
Or hers.

His yak mighta been filling with water, or even been upside down then.
If so, it ain't moving that fast compared to his paddle,
which woulda been floating on the surface, subject to current, white cap waves and wind.
The paddle is the lightest object, it would move fast, quickly away from him, and her.
But she retrieved his paddle.


His kayak,
a sit-inside yak,
even if it had water in it,
it would still stay afloat.

He is a bigger boy than I,
he has some padding on him,
he ain't gonna die of hypo in a minute or 2.
Especially if he's got some anti-freeze, err alcohol in him...

She,
much smaller in body fat, from what I can tell in her pix,
would have had a harder time staying alive while dealing with hypo.
But she did survive bein' in the water, right?

It seems that she went and got his paddle.
She could have easily went, at that same time,
and tied up or helped him out so he could cling to her yak.
Heck, she could even have tossed him her lifejacket,
as he was in dire need of 1 right then, while she was still safely in her yak.
She is his wingman, he was hers.

She speaks great English,
I heard her 911 call.

She does not need Anna D.to help translate her speaks, ya know?

He,
err make that she,
got blown away from him by the currents/waves/wind
because she did not do what she should have done,
which was help rescue him...
My opinion only.


Below,
here's a video link with some info for ya,
it's kinda enlightening about what happens off shore when conditions turn nasty and you're out in a yak.
I remember the day this happened, as I was on a beach in Los Angeles shooting surf...

Wanna find out what happens when the winds pick up,
you're 1 mile offshore, and you get knocked outta your kayak,
and you have a wingman with you?

This happened to a few years back in the waters off So. Calif.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Last-Call.html
You might loose your paddle 1st, unless it's tethered to the yak.

You gotta get back into or on your yak,
and when your wingman,
err, in this case his dad paddles back over to you,
you buddy up for safety and then try to reach out for help.

This is just my personal opinion,
but she watched him, in trouble,
and she let him drown.


She also does a pretty mean cartwheel too,
as seen so in a video clip after his death,
http://on.aol.com/video/could-angel...er-fianc--in-a-kayak-by-doing-this--518856424
before his body was even found...
My 2¢ only...
RW
 
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RWVBWL said:
Gosh,
I can have some fun debating this case
if I really feeeel like diggin' into it...

OK.

The dude and his chick are gonna bail back to land from the island.
It's getting darker, daylight is ending. They, or he, hadda few beers.
That's nothin' if the dude drank all the time,
which he did...

Drinkin, + his body fat woulda help him stay alive longer in the cold water
than if he were super lean + only weighting some 160lbs at his height,
ya know?

The wind, current, and white caps,
err, what the local folks might call waves,
have increased in size.
But the wind is only 16mph.

That wind ain't that strong.
Well at least not too strong to paddle into and/or against.

I've been out, doing research, on my yak,
and have measured winds gusting to 41mph,
blowing me off the shore.

And I could still make it back ashore.


The dude is in his yak, his chick in hers.
He is heavier, of a larger build, he is more stable in the water than she,
lighter, smaller than he,
is.

The water coming into the little hole ain't a big deal,
it's the water comin' into the seating area that is.
He would know that, no matter how drunk, buzzed or f****'ed up he was.
.06 ain't f***ed up, in my humble yakin' experience,
hahahaha...

But these 2 have paddled before.
They are not complete newbie kooks.
She should have been in front of him,
no way he is gonna paddle in dangerous conditions
while leaving her behind him, unless they are tied up together.
He is gonna keep any eye on his baby.

Whatever happened out there,
she was right there, near him.

So something happened.
A random chop hit him.
Or she saw her opportunity, knocked him off balance.
Who knows.

All of a sudden, he's in the water.
1st thing ya do is get back to your yak.
Or hers.

His yak mighta been filling with water, or even been upside down then.
If so, it ain't moving that fast compared to his paddle,
which woulda been floating on the surface, subject to current, white cap waves and wind.
The paddle is the lightest object, it would move fast, quickly away from him, and her.
But she retrieved his paddle.


His kayak,
a sit-inside yak,
even if it had water in it,
it would still stay afloat.

He is a bigger boy than I,
he has some padding on him,
he ain't gonna die of hypo in a minute or 2.
Especially if he's got some anti-freeze, err alcohol in him...

She,
much smaller in body fat, from what I can tell in her pix,
would have had a harder time staying alive while dealing with hypo.
But she did survive bein' in the water, right?

It seems that she went and got his paddle.
She could have easily went, at that same time,
and tied up or helped him out so he could cling to her yak.
Heck, she could even have tossed him her lifejacket,
as he was in dire need of 1 right then, while she was still safely in her yak.
She is his wingman, he was hers.

She speaks great English,
I heard her 911 call.

She does not need Anna D.to help translate her speaks, ya know?

He,
err make that she,
got blown away from him by the currents/waves/wind
because she did not do what she should have done,
which was help rescue him...
My opinion only.


Below,
here's a video link with some info for ya,
it's kinda enlightening about what happens off shore when conditions turn nasty and you're out in a yak.
I remember the day this happened, as I was on a beach in Los Angeles shooting surf...

Wanna find out what happens when the winds pick up,
you're 1 mile offshore, and you get knocked outta your kayak,
and you have a wingman with you?

This happened to a few years back in the waters off So. Calif.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Last-Call.html
You might loose your paddle 1st, unless it's tethered to the yak.

You gotta get back into or on your yak,
and when your wingman,
err, in this case his dad paddles back over to you,
you buddy up for safety and then try to reach out for help.

This is just my personal opinion,
but she watched him, in trouble,
and she let him drown.


She also does a pretty mean cartwheel too,
as seen so in a video clip after his death,
http://on.aol.com/video/could-angel...er-fianc--in-a-kayak-by-doing-this--518856424
before his body was even found...

My 2¢ only...
RW
Click to expand...

You could be right, but that's a lot of speculation.

Note that alcohol is NOT antifreeze and it does not help you against the cold in any way. Drinking when fighting the elements is NOT good. Saint-Bernards do not actually carry brandy... That's because it will only help you die faster.

However, .06 BAC is nothing. The equivalent of one and a half beer or a glass and a half of wine over one hour. Not a factor.
 
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If he went in by accident and she watched him drown, that's not murder. It's not anything where I come from. There is generally no positive duty to help a drowning person.
 
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