Amway TV ad

[icerat]

Proof? I didn't think so...

Are you seriously claiming that NOBODY makes money from Amway, and thus just one person offering "proof" they do would 'cause you to review your entire opinion?

I just found this this morning that a friend of mine's parents lost almost their entire life savings in the Madoff scandal. They were EXTREMELY happy up until it vanished. And no, I'm not joking here.

And the relevance is what exactly? Are you too claiming that Amway is somehow like a Ponzi scheme?

In what way?

Do you understand that Ponzi schemes work by taking investors money and paying it to other investors to provide fake "returns"?

Nothing even remotely similar occurs with Amway.

 

[Tex2]

The tool scam facts can be found here: google "Tex Amway 9 steps of truth"

 

[Tex2]

Check out my new post: Google "Tex Amway Blog", then look at the 4th comment under the "Summer Changes" thread.

 

[Almo]

Do you really enjoy wallowing in such ignorance? "the first people"??? I joined 25 years after Amway opened in my country. The most successful people earning the most money in Amway all joined years after "the first people".

But why let reality get in the way of your own little delusions. That would require admitting maybe you misunderstood something ....

If Amway is such a good opportunity, why do so many people who go in come running out screaming? Isn't it possible you're the one with the delusion? Delusions by definition are difficult to distinguish from reality.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Do you really enjoy wallowing in such ignorance? "the first people"??? I joined 25 years after Amway opened in my country. The most successful people earning the most money in Amway all joined years after "the first people".

But why let reality get in the way of your own little delusions. That would require admitting maybe you misunderstood something ....

Proof? Again, I didn't think so.

Surely you haven't made a significant profit otherwise you would be telling us about it.

 

[LightinDarkness]

I've provided numerous references and links to "people defending it" who have not been involved. You are being more than a little selective.

No, you have not.

There is nothing wrong with Amway as a MLM scam - people are free to throw their money away into scams, they have every right to do so. But if someone were looking to actually make money, using it in a MLM is not a good way to do so. You could end up being rich, but it would only be through establishing a massive down line utilizing "the greater fool" theory.

Amway works, and so does running a cocaine cartel.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Are you seriously claiming that NOBODY makes money from Amway, and thus just one person offering "proof" they do would 'cause you to review your entire opinion?

One person making SIGNIFICANT income who can prove it with a tax return would certainly be nice. But my main claim was that you aren't making an significant money. I define significant as being at least $100k a year in PROFIT. Either way I know for a fact that people make money, it's just mostly on the tools. I'm unclear at how well people who started in the last 5 years or so are doing though, especially domestically.

 

[icerat]

No, you have not.

Yes I have. Don't be lazy, read the thread

You could end up being rich, but it would only be through establishing a massive down line utilizing "the greater fool" theory.

So I gather you're a proponent of the idea that all business is about tricking people into buying stuff they don't really want?

 

[icerat]

One person making SIGNIFICANT income who can prove it with a tax return would certainly be nice. But my main claim was that you aren't making an significant money. I define significant as being at least $100k a year in PROFIT.

So? Who apart from me (and the tax authorities) cares what I make? It has no bearing on the potential of the business for others. I don't make a cent as a professional tennis player either, but I have little doubt that with appropriate abilities and hard work, plenty of people can (and do) make money as professional tennis players.

Either way I know for a fact that people make money, it's just mostly on the tools.

Proof please. Audited tax returns preferred of course.

I'm unclear at how well people who started in the last 5 years or so are doing though, especially domestically.

Well we know that 4 years ago the average income for a Diamond was around$150k/yr from Amway aloneand that Amway has increased the bonuses significantly since then.

We also know that from 2002 to 2007 nearly 200 iboships in North America qualifed for the first time at new levels of Diamond and above and that in 2008 at least 2619 iboships in North America qualified for the "Achievers" (income at least $50K/yr), and that after hundreds of Platinums either resigned or were terminated in the fallout from Amway's dispute with TEAM's business building techniques.

No idea when all those qualifiers "started", but clearly there are many profitable, successful, growing Amway businesses in North America.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Actually average INCOME isn't average PROFIT Icerat. Nice try. So in fact we don't know any of these things you are saying that we know.

In fact when we have seen tax returns of high up Amway distributors almost all of their income has been from tools.

Spin, lies and distortions are what you would expect from this scam.

And BTW if I was a good kid who could turn pro in tennis I'm positive my agent would be trying to find out what everyone else is making.

You guys are sure quick to claim income but never profit. Two different things dude. That's why real businesses have a P/L statement.

 

[icerat]

Actually average INCOME isn't average PROFIT Icerat. Nice try. So in fact we don't know any of these things you are saying that we know.

I didn't say profit, I said income, so unless you believe Amway is faking their statistics, we do know these things.

In fact when we have seen tax returns of high up Amway distributors almost all of their income has been from tools.

ROFLMAO!! Really, so where are these tax returns?

Spin, lies and distortions are what you would expect from this scam.

It's what I've come to expect from you. In this one post you've claimed my statements about Amway income are invalid statements about Amway income because they're not about profits. You've then claimed to see all these tax returns - and I can guarantee you won't be able to produce them.

And BTW if I was a good kid who could turn pro in tennis I'm positive my agent would be trying to find out what everyone else is making.

And you might be able to get details of their prize winnings, but I doubt you'd have much like finding out what they're paying for travel, hotels, trainers etc etc. Heck, you'd be lucky to find out what their endorsement income was too.

Go on, give it a try. Find a tennis pro, tell him you're thinking of taking up tennis, and ask for his P&L.

You guys are sure quick to claim income but never profit. Two different things dude. That's why real businesses have a P/L statement.

Most serious Amway businesses have P/L statements. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. Heck, most if not all Diamondships and above, and many below, are incorporated, audited, companies.

 

[NewtonTrino]

serious Amway businesses

I think this says it all folks. Of course the serious ones are the ones where they sell motivational junk.

 

[icerat]

I think this says it all folks. Of course the serious ones are the ones where they sell motivational junk.

I prefer to let folk like the IRS define whether someone is treating the business seriously or not. Put simply, if the local tax authorities audited them, would they pass muster as a business for the purpose of claiming expenses?

Doesn't matter if you're brand new or a Triple Duper Super Swami Gem.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Of course many peoples businesses would in fact not pass this test and there have been IRS cases in the past where past taxes have been due by Amway business "owners".

 

[icerat]

Of course many peoples businesses would in fact not pass this test and there have been IRS cases in the past where past taxes have been due by Amway business "owners".

Well, virtually by definition you can't call them "businesses", but yes you are correct, there's been more than a few cases of people treating it as a hobby (or less) and expecting to benefit from business tax advantages.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Icerat, the DEFAULT Amway business is treated as a hobby.

If you actually want to build a profitable Amway business you have to concentrate on things that are completely different from what your upline tells you to do.

 

[icerat]

Icerat, the DEFAULT Amway business is treated as a hobby.

yup, and they know it and don't expect a profit from their hobby either.

So why on earth do people on forums like this consider that the incomes of these hobbyists has any relevance to an Amway business?

If you actually want to build a profitable Amway business you have to concentrate on things that are completely different from what your upline tells you to do.

Ahhh ... there's that omniscience of yours again. You have no idea what my upline tells me to do.

Come to think of it, I can't recall my upline ever telling me to do anything at all ....

But please ... curiosity has the best of me ... do share your enormous expertise and enlighten me on how to build a profitable Amway business ...

 

[Foolmewunz]

Check out my new post: Google "Tex Amway Blog", then look at the 4th comment under the "Summer Changes" thread.

Hey, Tex. Welcome aboard. I assume you're a veteran of the battle from your posts.

If your work is your own, you can legitimately cut and paste and post portions of it, here. I wouldn't do 300 line wall-of-text posts, but pertinent segments and comments would be fine.

Not that I want to begrudge you any hits on your site, but that I know JREF Forumites - we're a xenophobic lot, sometimes, and like the info in threads where we can see it. And the advantage is that at the JREF Forums (we always emphasize that the Forums are not necessarily the JREF) you have a whole new tree of generic skeptics you can educate - not just Amway battlers.

ETA: I know you can't post links yet. Here's yours....
http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/9-steps-of-truth.html

 

[Bob Klase]

Come to think of it, I can't recall my upline ever telling me to do anything at all ....

Which is a perfect example of the excellent training you receive to help you be successful in the Amway 'business'.

 

[NewtonTrino]

It's simple. Build a large downline who like to buy CD's and go to functions. Focus on pure count and don't worry about who is moving product. After all if you sell tools the PV will follow right?