Amway TV ad

[icerat]

I've always been excited about working with a "prestige" brand like Artistry (that's nobody has ever heard of).

Any sane person would consider around $2 billion in sales as evidence that somebody has heard of the brand.

Tex, why don't you invite Newton Trino over on to one of your "conference calls"? Then you could spend your time talking your BS to someone who, like yourself, prefers to ignore reality while wallowing in their own egos.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I think it's pretty clear who is ignoring reality here.

Let's summarize:
1) You were in the business before but never reached any significant level of profit.
2) you aren't in it now but it's still great
3) Nobody makes money from the tools, but even if they did, it would be ok with you.
4) Amways products are great and many people who aren't in the business love them a buy them on a regular basis.

Who's full of it here?

 

[Tex2]

Tex, why don't you invite Newton Trino over on to one of your "conference calls"? Then you could spend your time talking your BS to someone who, like yourself, prefers to ignore reality while wallowing in their own egos. ---- I am willing to talk to anyone who wants to talk, just visit my site and propose a day/time. I don't understand why you posted the N21 decision. That was a mere administrative clean up action, we all know Jim Dornan got slammed in his original "it's Amway's fault" finger pointing letter that you posted twice and removed twice, then he submitted a retraction letter, now N21 isn't allowed to make ANY tool profit in the UK. What's YOUR reality?

NewtonTrino,

icerat/ibofb is an IBO currently. People make LOTS of money from tools, that fact is well documented. I have several regular customers, many of whom I have never met, so it's not any kind of a personal favor.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Amway, like all MLM scams, operate on the greater fool theory. The bet is you can find people who are a bigger fool than you to buy into it so you can make some profit.

That is not a business. The "business" of Amway - ordering these products online and selling them - can be done better and cheaper by purchasing it from Amazon. No one buys them unless they themselves are the Amway member or one of the Amway greater fools.

The easiest way to spot a MLM scam is to see what happens when you remove the referrals and concentrate on the actual business: if the underlying business would not hold up without referrals, its a scam. Amway is a scam, and this thread (and thousands of others on the internet) provides ample proof. The only reason why Amway continues is because when you become a Amway member you will immediately defend the organization in order to avoid admitting that you bought into a scam.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Any sane person would consider around $2 billion in sales as evidence that somebody has heard of the brand.

Yeah, the idiots who bought into Amway and have to purchase it. Take them out, and poof goes the sales. You might still have a few million in there for those poor family members who order for their loved ones who got suckered in out of pity.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Hold on, icerat is currently building the business? Or he's just an IBO because he keeps renewing?

In this thread he's been pretty clear that his ex has his business. Is it more complex than that?

 

[NobbyNobbs]

Hold on, icerat is currently building the business? Or he's just an IBO because he keeps renewing?

In this thread he's been pretty clear that his ex has his business. Is it more complex than that?

I've been wondering about that too. He has said the business belongs to his ex. He has also said he is collecting residuals. I'm no longer clear who owns his business.

 

[icerat]

I think it's pretty clear who is ignoring reality here.

Let's summarize:
1) You were in the business before but never reached any significant level of profit.
2) you aren't in it now but it's still great
3) Nobody makes money from the tools, but even if they did, it would be ok with you.
4) Amways products are great and many people who aren't in the business love them a buy them on a regular basis.

Who's full of it here?

Let's summarize how NewtonTrino just makes stuff up

1) I was in the business before and was making a few thousand dollars a month, profit, and that business continues to generate profit a decade later because people I introduced to Amway keep buying products from Amway. Most people would consider a few thousand dollars a month profit from a part time business quite significant. I certainly noticed it coming in to my bank account. That business remains with my former wife and I became her sponsor.
2) I continue to be registered with Amway in more than one country but have not been focused on building an Amway business, so quite reasonably do not earn a significant profit from Amway today.
3) Plenty of people make money from tools, and as long as there's no deception about it that's ok with me
4) Amways products are great and many people who aren't in the business love them a buy them on a regular basis.

Gee ... 1 out of four NT. Why do Amway critics so often seem to find it necessary to be dishonest about my positions on various matters?

 

[icerat]

Amway, like all MLM scams, operate on the greater fool theory. The bet is you can find people who are a bigger fool than you to buy into it so you can make some profit.

It's a sad view of commerce when you think whenever anyone buys something it's because they've been fooled.

That is not a business.

You're right, it's not. Finding legitimate consumers for your products is a business. That's the Amway business.

The "business" of Amway - ordering these products online and selling them - can be done better and cheaper by purchasing it from Amazon. No one buys them unless they themselves are the Amway member or one of the Amway greater fools.

This is false on two levels. First, plenty of people who are not Amway members purchase Amway products. Secondly, if they like them they'd generally be smarter to become Amway members to get them cheaper. Third, if it can be done better and cheaper via Amazon, why is Amway outselling Amazon in the categories it targets?

The easiest way to spot a MLM scam is to see what happens when you remove the referrals and concentrate on the actual business: if the underlying business would not hold up without referrals, its a scam.

Amway UK suspended sponsoring for nearly two years. Millions of pounds of Amway products continued to be bought and sold.

Amway is a scam, and this thread (and thousands of others on the internet) provides ample proof. The only reason why Amway continues is because when you become a Amway member you will immediately defend the organization in order to avoid admitting that you bought into a scam.

If Amway operated the way you seem to think it does, then I'd agree with you. The reality is that it doesn't operate that way. Ample proof has been provided on this thread, you've clearly decided to ignore the evidence.

 

[Tex2]

Note icerat/ibofb can't answer my post, above. Reason? There's no good answer.

LightinDarkness,

Amway, like all MLM scams, operate on the greater fool theory. The bet is you can find people who are a bigger fool than you to buy into it so you can make some profit. ---- If you're talking about the tool scam business, you're right. If you're talking about the Amway business, you're wrong.

That is not a business. The "business" of Amway - ordering these products online and selling them - can be done better and cheaper by purchasing it from Amazon. No one buys them unless they themselves are the Amway member or one of the Amway greater fools. ---- Please don't tell that to MY customers, I had on buy about 50 PV yesterday.

The easiest way to spot a MLM scam is to see what happens when you remove the referrals and concentrate on the actual business: if the underlying business would not hold up without referrals, its a scam. ---- Many businesses are built largely on referrals. Are they all scams as well?

Amway is a scam, and this thread (and thousands of others on the internet) provides ample proof. ---- The Amway supported tool scam is a scam.

The only reason why Amway continues is because when you become a Amway member you will immediately defend the organization in order to avoid admitting that you bought into a scam. ---- The only reason Amway continues is because not enough people are aware of the tool scam.

 

[Tex2]

1) I was in the business before and was making a few thousand dollars a month, profit, and that business continues to generate profit a decade later because people I introduced to Amway keep buying products from Amway. Most people would consider a few thousand dollars a month profit from a part time business quite significant. I certainly noticed it coming in to my bank account. That business remains with my former wife and I became her sponsor. ---- He didn't tell you his wife's business is now a small percentage of what it was when it was producing "several thousand dollars a month" (net or gross?), or that the business is now a single leg from his perspective and therefore far less profitable to him. As usual, half truth.
2) I continue to be registered with Amway in more than one country but have not been focused on building an Amway business, so quite reasonably do not earn a significant profit from Amway today. ---- Finally, a bit of honesty.
3) Plenty of people make money from tools, and as long as there's no deception about it that's ok with me ---- That's the problem. How much money do the N21 Emeralds and above make from tools? How much does Jim Dornan make? As usual, half truths.
4) Amways products are great and many people who aren't in the business love them a buy them on a regular basis. ---- This is true, although the use of the word "many" is misleading, as about 3-4% of products in the U.S. are sold to customers, and even this is questionable.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Let's summarize how NewtonTrino just makes stuff up

1) I was in the business before and was making a few thousand dollars a month, profit, and that business continues to generate profit a decade later because people I introduced to Amway keep buying products from Amway. Most people would consider a few thousand dollars a month profit from a part time business quite significant. I certainly noticed it coming in to my bank account. That business remains with my former wife and I became her sponsor.
2) I continue to be registered with Amway in more than one country but have not been focused on building an Amway business, so quite reasonably do not earn a significant profit from Amway today.
3) Plenty of people make money from tools, and as long as there's no deception about it that's ok with me
4) Amways products are great and many people who aren't in the business love them a buy them on a regular basis.

Gee ... 1 out of four NT. Why do Amway critics so often seem to find it necessary to be dishonest about my positions on various matters?

1) Proof? Also this seems murky according to what Tex is saying above. I would love to see some graphs on your profit growth over time in these different businesses.
2) ok, whatever.
3) Then please tell me where I can see these disclosures. OH I CAN'T BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST.
4) HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA no let me repeat HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[NewtonTrino]

Is there anyone reading this thread who is an Amway customer without being a distributor?

Just curious if anyone at all actually buys this stuff unless they are pressured by a friend.

 

[Almo]

If they don't agree then that person can be a direct customer of Amway, with any sales volume put into a pool and profits shared with the active field. (this setup varies from market to market)

Can't have people buying actual products while bypassing the pyramid. Amway sells the model, not the products.

Anyone with a website can sign up to get a cut of sales from Amazon:

https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/

But Amazon is in the business of selling products. So they don't give a hoot in hell where the sales come from. But if you happen to refer someone who does buy something, you can get a cut.

And why does Amway sell the model and not the product? Because the money comes from the tools.

 

[NewtonTrino]

It works great for the corp and it works great for the tool kingpins. It just doesn't work great for the suckers.

 

[HarryHenderson]

Not to derail this absolutely <cough> fascinating thread, but I saw this Amway ad on TV where John Tesh...

(pardon me if I'm rehashing anything old news)

Amway's 'success' has always been tied to recruiting enough Icerats of the world. Honest, hard workin, straight shootin', pure in intention, but easily hoodwinked 'believers' in the notion that cheerleading can be fun and profitable.

Even if you 'really believe' in the power of 'rah rah' as not only a sales tool, but as the actual means to an end, seems you'd still stop and look when they tell you "oh forget actual product sales Doby, you just get your nana to sign." With ensuing conversations akin to: "So when do I start making all that Promised Land™ money selling all this Promised Land™ stuff, Bossum?" "You just shut up and get your nana signed."

The bottom line is often a good place for clues, let's go there. The fact R. DeVos and J. Van Andel were 'filthy rich' before the first half million of those 'three million business owners' shouldn't be overlooked (or forgiven?). RDV estimated fortune (2006): $3.5 billion. 249th richest person IN THE WORLD (2007). Over the entire 47 year span of the company's existence, he averaged $75 million PER YEAR solely towards accumulated wealth. That doesn't include a penny of the money he actually spent in those same years. How much would you suppose the highest paid Grand Poobah Diamond Platinum Doop™ was paid, in the highest year ever? Million? Five million?

I seem to remember Rich DeVos being overheard in 1973 saying something like "...and here's your two grand Icerat, and here's my two million. Ma'am, here's your two grand, and here's my two million." And so on and...so...forth.

To make matters worse, that whole two thousand dollars was earned not as an Independent Business Owner™ as they claim, but as an ill compensated employee who must follow literally every rule they decree for fear of losing his 'LOC connect' and otherwise cheerleading corp for...not doing it right. Anyone been to any of their 'gatherings'? Conferences? They're INSANE...ly funny! "No Bob, you have to touch him on his RIGHT shoulder and then whisper 'Can I interest you in...' And don't start whispering until you're right up next to his ear or...he won't hear you. Oh and have good breath." (you think I'm making that up)

IMO, Amway is as morally bankrupt as a company can get, and not surprisingly, at the edge of the legal (morality) limit also. Ironically, they actually do 'love' their workers, they're just not in love with them. Who wouldn't 'love' anyone who allows one to make $100 million a year by simply whispering wicked loving lies in their ear. If they were really so enamored of their 'dream followers', as they also claim, they'd have opened up ownership of the underlying company to them long ago, if for nothing other than humble, altruistic reasons.

So anyway, yeah sure, it could be successfully argued Amway spreads the wealth, just depends on your definition of wealth...or spreads...or the.

 

[LightinDarkness]

It's a sad view of commerce when you think whenever anyone buys something it's because they've been fooled.

Not commerce, just MLM scams like Amway.

You're right, it's not. Finding legitimate consumers for your products is a business. That's the Amway business.

No, its not. Amway's business is setting up a MLM referral network and forcing the people in it to buy products they could get else where for cheaper.

This is false on two levels. First, plenty of people who are not Amway members purchase Amway products.

Thats a lie. Besides the few friends and family members that Amway members pressure into buying from, the amount of people who buy from Amway because of the product (and not because they know someone selling it) is minimal or non-existent.

Secondly, if they like them they'd generally be smarter to become Amway members to get them cheaper. Third, if it can be done better and cheaper via Amazon, why is Amway outselling Amazon in the categories it targets?

Nope - they could become members of Sam's club if they wanted to buy stuff cheaper through a club. Amway doesn't outsell Amazon except in areas that Amazon DOESNT OFFER ANYTHING in. Another lie for you. You just love pulling things out of no where it seems.

Amway UK suspended sponsoring for nearly two years. Millions of pounds of Amway products continued to be bought and sold.

Nice try - of course they did. Members still had to buy to get their points.

If Amway operated the way you seem to think it does, then I'd agree with you. The reality is that it doesn't operate that way. Ample proof has been provided on this thread, you've clearly decided to ignore the evidence.

Unfortunately Amway doesn't operate like you think it is, and you have done nothing but demonstrate you are a shill. I spent weeks reading this long thread just to understand how such an obvious scam would even come up on forum that promotes rational thinking, and found it that would be because you and another shill from time to time are in here spreading Amway propaganda.

You have offered no evidence, and by offering mores lies by claiming you did only further damages your credibility. Do keep it up Ultimately Amway speaks loudest through shills like you, which is why it has to keep re-branding itself (oops, Quixtar didnt work out that well..).

 

[LightinDarkness]

If you're talking about the tool scam business, you're right. If you're talking about the Amway business, you're wrong.

Amway's business is tools. The "products" it sells is the cover for the CD/Tape purchases and MLM referrals.

Please don't tell that to MY customers, I had on buy about 50 PV yesterday.

You mean your down line? Not surprising, as they have to purchase.

Many businesses are built largely on referrals. Are they all scams as well?

Legitimate businesses have products and services as their purpose. Those products and services are the business, they don't have MLM referrals.

I agree with what you said about the tools.

 

[Tex2]

Is there anyone reading this thread who is an Amway customer without being a distributor?

Just curious if anyone at all actually buys this stuff unless they are pressured by a friend.

I haven't met most of my customers.

 

[Tex2]

And why does Amway sell the model and not the product? Because the money comes from the tools. ---- Amway sells the products, the LCKs sell the tool scam. They both benefit from the other, and most IBOs lose.