AE911Truth.org to Ryan Mackey: "Debate our Rocket Scientist"

[rwguinn]

Yes, you read it correctly. The charlatan camp that calls themselves AE911Truth finally responded to my e-mail. I was simply asking Richard Gage why he forwarded Mr. Mackey's white paper to Dr. Griffin. Mr. Gage did not respond. I decided to forward my e-mails to other members of his staff. The response I received is asking for Ryan Mackey to debate them publicly, or write a white paper.

<<<<Snip>>>


I wrote this person back explaining that a debate with Ryan would be redundant since Mark Roberts has already refuted all of Gage's claims in a recorded debate. I also brought up Mr. Urich's open letter that has yet to be answered along with a link to it.


No, I don't expect Ryan to agree to donating any more of his time to debate with charlatans like him..... but it would be fun to watch.

Waitaminnit!
You sent them Ryan's Whire Paper, which they forwarded to Dr. G.
The eventual response was that Ryan should write a white paper refuting their arguments.
Which is what the white paper he already wrote did...
Stupid is contagious

 

[dc1971]

particularly with folks like
george jetson
fred flintstone
barney rubble

and that list grows...

of course on their website they now claim near 1,000 architectural and engineering professionals (which includes office managers, draftsmen, technicians, etc...) The total licensed AND degreed architects and engineers is under 300.

and that is being extremely generous...
That would be out of millions of engineers and architects around the world. So their membership is like one hundredth of one percent...

Aww shucks! I was hoping Christopher7 would answer my question! DARN! Well maybe he's too wrapped up in getting a degree right now? Sorry C7!! I'm curious of the addition of 7 to Christopher, is that like John 5?

 

[dc1971]

AFAIK they split up into Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice:

No, I thought they formed another group called Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Justice and Stacks of Pancakes for Breakfast?? I read that somewhere... yeah, and I believe it because Jim Fetzer looks like he eats a lot of pancakes very often!

 

[fourtoe]

Since no one here seems to know, I googled Tony Szamboti and found this:
Tony Szamboti - received his Bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering from Villanova University...

I love how you say this as if you've been repeatedly asking us for Szamboti's CV this whole time.


I found one of Mackey's papers and it says the following:


Ryan Mackey received his B.A. degree from the University
of California at Santa Cruz (1993) for Mathematics and
Physics, and went on to an M.S. (1994) and Eng. (1997) in
Aeronautics at Caltech. He is presently a senior researcher
and charter member of the Ultracomputing Technologies
Research Group at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. His
research centers upon revolutionary computing methods and
technologies for advanced machine autonomy, specifically
deep space missions, UAVs and maintainable aerospace
vehicles. His interests also include quantum- and
biologically-inspired computing.

Does this answer your question?

Furthermore, the introduction you are talking about has Ron (a) introducing both Szamboti and Mackey after stating "we want to take advantage of the professional expertise of our guests and (b) I'm pretty sure Ron meant that they relative to himself and the average citizen/viewer of the program had more familiarity with the science involved in the topic at hand.

Again your agenda here is pretty obvious thereby allowing me to repeat myself:

Weeeeeeak, man.

 

[dc1971]

1 maroon springs to mind: Jim Fetzer!

Another 1 is: Judy Wood!

Well, there is also that long haired hippie who claims that the planes were photoshopped (better yet, AfterEffected)... Ace (something)!!

 

[TruthersLie]

That makes 10 non answers.

Tony Szamboti - received his Bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering from Villanova University.
http://www.peace-education.ca/rethinking911


Hardfire TONY SZAMBOTI / RYAN MACKEY / RONALD WIECK / 1st PROGRAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1u3KO9kUdE

In this video Ronald Wieck says "We do want to take advantage of the professional expertise of our guests."
Ronald then tells TV audience that Ryan is a NASA engineer. Ryan did not correct Ronald, he just nodded. In doing so he was affirming that he was a NASA engineer.

Ryan can speak for himself since none of you seem to know for sure.

Ryan, We know you got your degrees from the University of California, Santa Cruz and the Graduate Aeronautical Laboratories at the California Institute of Technology.
You are a specialist in vehicle autonomy and integrated systems health management for aircraft and spacecraft.
What are the degrees in? Bio engineering, robotics engineering? [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

are you going to continue bleating on this like you did for ghu knows how many pages about wtc7 before giving up because you were so out of your depth? Really?

well bleat away... it is rather amusing.

 

[Christopher7]

I found one of Mackey's papers and it says the following:

Ryan Mackey received his B.A. degree from the University
of California at Santa Cruz (1993) for Mathematics and
Physics, and went on to an M.S. (1994) and Eng. (1997) in
Aeronautics at Caltech. He is presently a senior researcher
and charter member of the Ultracomputing Technologies
Research Group at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. His
research centers upon revolutionary computing methods and
technologies for advanced machine autonomy, specifically
deep space missions, UAVs and maintainable aerospace
vehicles. His interests also include quantum- and
biologically-inspired computing.

Does this answer your question?

Yes, Thank you very much.

 

[jaydeehess]

Yes, Thank you very much.

So then I was wrong? You did not already know this? It had somehow eluded your research?

hmm , I googled "Ryan Mackey" + nasa and one of the first returns is from 911myths.com

Ryan Mackey is a research scientist at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, specializing in vehicle autonomy and Integrated Systems Health Management for aircraft and spacecraft. He is a graduate of the University of California, Santa Cruz and the Graduate Aeronautical Laboratories at the California Institute of Technology (GALCIT). He has authored sixteen NASA Tech Briefs and Technical Reports, and received two United States Patents for his original research. He has contributed to numerous projects including the Joint Strike Fighter, NASA’s New Millennium Program and Project Constellation. His introduction to fringe beliefs regarding September 11th and the works of Dr. Griffin came through informal Internet discussions hosted by the James Randi Educational Foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising public awareness of paranormal and pseudoscientific fraud. While the author pursues this effort independently of these and any other organizations, he is indebted to them for their contributions to science, education, and critical thinking.

Was that really so difficult that you had to badger members here to find it out?

So what of the institution where Mackey did his graduate work?

http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/academics/index.html
Interesting read this is , Chris, including the prerquisites for admission;

Preparation
Students who have completed an undergraduate course in an engineering or science discipline or in an applied science are eligible to apply for admission to work toward advanced degrees in aeronautics or aerospace. The program of graduate study is such as to demand extensive undergraduate preparation in physics (two years), chemistry, thermodynamics, mechanics, and appropriate areas of engineering and mathematics. Students are expected to have a strong background in calculus, ordinary differential equations, partial differential equations, complex variables, integral transforms, and special functions. Deficiencies in these areas should be rectified prior to joining Caltech.

So, tell us again then where Ryan Mackey's white paper that was given to Gage et al fails and how Mackey's training has led him astray.

Frankly if its to be a battle of credentials then Gage should step aside and let the big boys talk.

Tell us again how Jim Fetzer's credentials work here, or even Steven Jones' credentials.

If credentials specific to the the destruction of the wtc structures matters then Mackey outshines all three.
Gage has little training in or engineering, less in physics, Fetzer has little or none in either feild and Jones soley in physics, specifically physics at the atomic level including muon induced fusion. Jones was to release an adjutant paper to Pons and Fleishman's "cold fusion" paper. P&F reneged and published first. Jones had wanted to hitch his horse to their wagon
That's a bit of evidence that Jones makes gross misjudgements in coming to conclusions in science!

 

[fourtoe]

So then I was wrong? You did not already know this? It had somehow eluded your research?

hmm , I googled "Ryan Mackey" + nasa and one of the first returns is from 911myths.com



Was that really so difficult that you had to badger members here to find it out?

I think this is a fine example of the rigorous researching skills that Truthers possess.

 

[TruthersLie]

So then I was wrong? You did not already know this? It had somehow eluded your research?

hmm , I googled "Ryan Mackey" + nasa and one of the first returns is from 911myths.com



Was that really so difficult that you had to badger members here to find it out?

J.

He was just JAQing off... but that is all he can do. I just think he is butt hurt over getting repeatedly owned about his bs about wtc7

 

[jaydeehess]

J.

He was just JAQing off... but that is all he can do. I just think he is butt hurt over getting repeatedly owned about his bs about wtc7

As I suspected myself. Perhaps Chris can explain what all this is leading to?

Is it somehow to show us that we did not know who Mackey was? No, that can't be it since most of us had , at least at one time or another, learned them. (I had to do the search to remind myself. I knew he was at JPL and had a degree from a school of aeronautical research, had thought I recalled it was CalTech. Now my memory has been refreshed, my curiousity once again satisfied) In fact I make a habit of checking a poster who indicates advanced training. Greening is another example.
Am I the exception among JREF readers?

Perhaps Chris is trying to set up a 'our experts are better than your experts' arguement. Well then let's cut Fetzer out of the equation, then Gage, then Kevin Ryan. We ask ourselves what a muon induced fusion physicist is doing commenting on structural engineering if an aeronautics researcher is not considered sufficient? Where carpentry fits in this spectrum, as far as the TM is concerned, is anyone's guess.

Furthermore, I, with my paltry first year university math and physics, and a college diploma in electronic technology, can see the flaws in Jones and Gage's arguements. What does that say about their expertise?

 

[jaydeehess]

I think this is a fine example of the rigorous researching skills that Truthers possess.

If indeed Chris is JAQ'ing, I fail to understand why he would set himself up for such ridicule. It strikes me as masochistic.

 

[fourtoe]

If indeed Chris is JAQ'ing, I fail to understand why he would set himself up for such ridicule. It strikes me as masochistic.

I think you pretty much nailed it in post #91. The only thing I would fix is that we need to also kick out DRG based on his background.

Another answer is he is playing Truther 20 Questions, they make you work for getting them to post what their real agenda is...see RedIbis and Jihad Jane for good examples of how to play Truther 20 Questions.

 

[Furcifer]

Is it somehow to show us that we did not know who Mackey was? No, that can't be it since most of us had , at least at one time or another, learned them. (I had to do the search to remind myself. I knew he was at JPL and had a degree from a school of aeronautical research, had thought I recalled it was CalTech. Now my memory has been refreshed, my curiousity once again satisfied) In fact I make a habit of checking a poster who indicates advanced training. Greening is another example.
Am I the exception among JREF readers?

I tried to drop a hint in post #76 people were a little off base. I wasn't going to give C7 the satisfaction of seeing me jump through hoops. There's no way he can't know this information. It's been published several times, and I don't think Ryan is particularly secretive about it. (public record or not it's still personal information)

I've got him on Ignore, and I think Ryan does as well. I'm not sure why Ryan does, but I know why I do. C7 is creepy. He's the only person ever to creep me out enough to use this function.

I don't know why he's discussing personal information, but I suspect it's a combination of things:

1. Because it's creepy. I think he likes being creepy. He hides behind a username and then demands personal information? He's obviously not using the personal information to verify claims. He's using it passive aggressively to intimidate people. The truth movement has no arguments left so they've been reduced to intimidation. Check out unmoderated forums like YouTube. They make threats and use slurs to intimidate people. At the end of the day they've got nothing but that to fall back on because they are the dying remnants of a failed movement. You can blame people like DRG and Jones for this, because they keep it going without substantiating anything. There's simply no substance for people like C7 and jmh to sink their teeth into.

2. I think he's playing 2 forums at the same time. He's probably posting in some other forum about how he's making the JREF'ers jump through hoops, and they don't know anything, and he's so smart yada yada yada. You've been privy to the investigative prowess these people have. Do you really think they verify anything? I don't. C7 is probably here JAQ'ing off and reporting back to some other loser forum that he's the big Kahuna. I recently looked at 2 other forums linked in threads here. In both forums all I saw was a bunch of ego's claiming JREF'ers were so stupid and how smart they were etc. In both forums? Just at random? I found that strange. In both cases they had similar tales of conquests at JREF. It's probably easier to find out what's going on in this forum over at them, than it is to find out here.

Anyways, this post is way too long and I'm tired. All I can say is over the last few days I'm really coming to understand why they say "Don't feed the trolls". Especially the creepy ones.

 

[jaydeehess]

3bp, given your two choices I would have to select the second simply because C7's true identity is well known to many of us. (hence my 'carpentry' reference above).

However, if that's all it is, wow, the only word that springs to mind is juvenile. Its probably just me, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I don't see C7 as being quite that purile.

kfcolubus may have the ticket on this one though. I have seen 911 deniers use the 20 questions method quite often. They believe that they are roping you in to say something that will box you into a contradiction or an error.
I think that C7 believes that he is on to something with whether or not Mackey has a degree that specifies a mechanical or structural engineering background. He of copurse knows that we have scoffed at Gage eta al for not having the credentials to argue structural issues and wishes to then turn it around and apply the same to anything MacKey has written.

The difference of course is that MacKey can be shown to be correct, AND have credentials in a feild that allows him an understanding of the concepts involved. Gage et al may have credentials that suggest they should understand the concepts involved but their conclusions are largely founded upon a prejudiced political view rather than on good science.
S.Jones, the Ph.D. in physics can also be shown to have made a bad decision in his own very specific feild when he backed the idea of cold fusion. How then can we trust his judgement in a feild only tangentially related to his specialty?
Gage has no training in engineering of any sort and I believe that I have more background in physics than he does.
Griffin and Fetzer?? Nada!!
Heiwa, nope, he has consistently been shown to misunderstand, or deliberatly misrepresent, the physics involved, and his engineering specialty is at least as far removed from the subject of the WTC structures as is MacKey's.


having now established beyond any misunderstanding (I believe) what MacKey's credentials are:::::::::::::::::
Perahaps Christopher 7 will now address the white paper that Gage and Jones have, so far as we know, refused to even read

May I suggest that starting tomorrow no one post in this thread until C7 comes back here , except to bump it. No comments, just a bump for Chris every second day.