AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[bio]

Oh, ok. Well at least you can acknowledge some of the obvious.

On the rest, good luck with that.

There is a reason why, the FBI sees no need identifying the debris. Why they are so secretive?

 

[funk de fino]

clearly - a plane hit the pentagon. A recorder, debris and remains were found. A radar track - yes. But this do not address my question.

The airline say it was their aircraft. Why dont you ask them if it is not, then where is it and where are their passengers?

The FOIA was for documentary evidence of how the aircraft debri was identified. They do not have any documents that show how it was done and it is is completely irrelevant anyway. Serial number identification is only done in the case of accidents this was not an accident.

 

[twinstead]

There is a reason why, the FBI sees no need identifying the debris. Why they are so secretive?

Why do you think the FBI needs to identify the debris? According to rational people, all the other evidence that day points to exactly where that debris came from, including some of the dna of the people on the plane!

Now, maybe if TWO planes had hit, maybe there'd be a need to identify exactly what plane was what. The ONLY reason you are questioning it is because it allows you to be suspicious of something. If this were a situation that you cared nothing about you wouldn't think twice about it.

Whether you think so or not, the vast preponderance of evidence leaves no doubt about the identification of the debris. Why go through the added expense and trouble to further identify everything? Do you think maybe they might have had more important things to do?

 

[WildCat]

in an obviously desperate derail attempt

Bump the appropriate thread to discuss that. This one is about the FDR data on Flight 77.

The attempted derail of this and just about any other thread in this section by truthers does nothing but expose your desperation and complete lack of facts.

 

[bio]

Bump the appropriate thread to discuss that. This one is about the FDR data on Flight 77.

The attempted derail of this and just about any other thread in this section by truthers does nothing but expose your desperation and complete lack of facts.

I just wanted to say...that.

What explanation does the FDR data offer for following event:

9:09 am
Flight 77’s radar blip, missing for the last eight minutes, reappears on Indianapolis flight control’s primary radar scope.
9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004

or is it "normal", that flight control loses the radar blip of passenger airlines?

 

[JimBenArm]

Changed my mind.
Nothing to see here.
Move along.

 

[funk de fino]

I just wanted to say...that.

What explanation does the FDR data offer for following event:

9:09 am
Flight 77’s radar blip, missing for the last eight minutes, reappears on Indianapolis flight control’s primary radar scope.
9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004

or is it "normal", that flight control loses the radar blip of passenger airlines?

How many blips are on the screen?

The data in the FDR would corroborate where it was during the time spent off radar.

 

[bje]

yes - I read the first 5 pages, and it corroborates me in my question to you. Did the FBI confirm, that they were able identify debris as from Flight AA77?

Here's some help for you from the NTSB, bio:

The following e-mail was provided by a Susan Stevenson of the NTSB on 12/26/2007, in response to a 12/16/2007 public correspondence e-mail inquiry:

“Yes. NTSB investigators rarely encounter a scenario when the identification of an accident aircraft is not apparent. But during those occasions, investigators will record serial numbers of major components, and then contact the manufacturer of those components in an attempt to determine what aircraft the component was installed upon.”

- http://gunnyg.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/911-aircraft-black-box-serial-numbers-mysteriously-absent/

Now, bio, all you have to do is show us that the identification of AA 77 was not readily apparent.

 

[bio]

Here's some help for you from the NTSB, bio:

Now, bio, all you have to do is show us that the identification of AA 77 was not readily apparent.

Your point is not clear for me. What do want to say?

 

[Turbofan]

Correct. The FDR does erase its own storage, overwriting as it operates. Turbofan's alleged "new information" is nonsense.

Nonsense?
Why don't you check my work if you're so sure?

Aviation Recorders Divison 941-371-0811

Are you implying that the FDR begins to overwrite data before
the total memory has been used? So, the FDR arbitrarily picks an address
and could overwrite 30 minute old data?

What's the point of that?

How long was this 'flight' to require erasing the most current data?

More to the point, this information contradicts the idea that a transient may
have erased a block containing the last few seconds of data. Once again,
there is no connection to the erase line while the CPM resides in the FDR;
therefore a block erase cannot occur.

I did ask before whether there were damaged frames or extra sync words written after the :xx:45 end of validated data, because this can give us a clue as to what happened next. beachnut answered in the affirmative, but it is very, very hard for us to be sure, since we do not have the actual low-level FDR data, and if corrupted it may be impossible to determine this for certain.

According to Undertow, the raw file contained no such bit/sync information
after :45

 

[lapman]

TF, what makes anybody think that the software that extracts the data would not throw out the bad data or interpret the first piece of bad data as EOF?

 

[beachnut]

Nonsense?
Why don't you check my work if you're so sure?

Aviation Recorders Divison 941-371-0811

Are you implying that the FDR begins to overwrite data before
the total memory has been used? So, the FDR arbitrarily picks an address
and could overwrite 30 minute old data?

What's the point of that?

How long was this 'flight' to require erasing the most current data?

More to the point, this information contradicts the idea that a transient may
have erased a block containing the last few seconds of data. Once again,
there is no connection to the erase line while the CPM resides in the FDR;
therefore a block erase cannot occur.

According to Undertow, the raw file contained no such bit/sync information
after :45

You are just posting for others, no real evidence presented! Just talk of evidence. Present the case with evidence not talk of what undertow did.

Why did p4t experts fail to decode the last second?

Why are other seconds missing?

Was all the data verified by p4t? Do you know how to verify the data?

The p4t group data stops on :43. Why was the NTSB able to decode another second and time stamp to :46?

The FDR has 25 hours of flights, it overwrites old data to recorded new data. You seem to ignore this function.

Please explain how the FDR does record and have 25 hours of flights on it? How does it overwrite the old data? You know undertow can show us the first data from a previous flight that was in the process of being overwritten. Did you know this?

The FDR found in the Pentagon has all the flights, 25 hours of 77 on it! Proving it was real data from the real aircraft found in the Pentagon!
This proves bio is full of junk ideas and make you a liar for saying 77 did not hit the Pentagon. Simple hard evidence.

The FDR makes Balsamo a terrorist loyalist, making up excuses for the terrorist and blaming the military for 9/11? He does not know much about flying, he thinks he knows much.


Can you present the data, show it? You just talk and never present the evidence you have. Show the data set. Explain better, so far you are exactly what Mackey said you were.

Aviation Recorders Divison 941-371-0811 (is that Divison, a special section?)

Oops, they said you guys were nut cases and don't take your calls any more. Is this true. L3 calls you guys nut cases? Are p4t nut cases, as defined by L3? Do they tell you the same thing to your ear?

Are you clueless on FDR function, and do you have to report to Balsamo and Undertow for your marching instructions in your p4t truth police, thought control, terrorist apologist cult of false information.

Unable to figure out the FDR, and couple some red flag to a 77 fly over, Is this why your group is only growing in anti-intellectual cult members, not able to think for themselves, they join a pilot who can't figure out G force if his life depended on it.

Is your failure to present evidence for your FDR failed ideas indicative of the failure to correct the video with 34 Gs?

 

[jaydeehess]

clearly - a plane hit the pentagon. A recorder, debris and remains were found. A radar track - yes. But this do not address my question.

It looks like a duck, flys, paddles about in the water, quacks, is feathered, and has bright green head but you would require a team of biologists to positively identify it as a Mallard duck.

 

[jaydeehess]

I just wanted to say...that.

What explanation does the FDR data offer for following event:

9:09 am
Flight 77’s radar blip, missing for the last eight minutes, reappears on Indianapolis flight control’s primary radar scope.
9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004

or is it "normal", that flight control loses the radar blip of passenger airlines?

If they are flying low, yes. The radar coverage is different as you get further away from the radar station. At 100 miles it may not pick up anything below several thousand feet, depending on topography, whereas at 10 miles it will likely pick up all but treetop level.

 

[funk de fino]

Nonsense?
Why don't you check my work if you're so sure?

Please tell me you did not just flunk one of the most basic functions of an FDR?

You are trying to say they do not overwrite old data? You have to remove them every 25 hours and erase it before you can get more data on it??

This gets even funnier. Total foot in mouth time TF

The old FDR's used to overwrite every half an hour.

 

[jaydeehess]

Your point is not clear for me. What do want to say?

You did not understand the statement by the spokesperson for the NTSB?

The only occasions for which they need to check the identity of the aircraft with serial numbers are when it is not readily apparent what the identity of the aircraft is.

For instance if two same model planes collide it would be neccessary to identify what parts come from which plane. This is the senario for the collision of two 747's in Tenerife.

Another example would be the discovery in remote territory of aircraft debris perhaps years after the fact of its crash. this is the senario that matches that of the recent discovery in the west USA of a small plane in remote bush country.

In the case of Flight 77, the dna of the passengers and crew were found in the Pentagon, a FDR with flight data corresponding to that of flight 77 was found in the Pentagon, hundreds of people saw a plane fly low and fast towards the Pentagon and many of them actually saw it hit the Pentagon, damage patterns indicate a large aircraft flew low and fast towards the Pentagon at an altitude the would preclude it from flying over the Pentagon, no one saw this aircraft fly away from the Pentagon, no one has had any contact with the passengers and crew since Sept 11, 2001 and the aircraft in question is no longer in service.

Now tell us why the identity of the aircraft is so much in question that the NTSB would be required to use serial numbers to check its ID!

If I were to suffer a fatal traffic accident and my wife and my brother both ID'd me in the morgue it would not be neccessary to check my dental records.

 

[jaydeehess]

Your point is not clear for me. What do want to say?

You did not understand the statement by the spokesperson for the NTSB?

The only occasions for which they need to check the identity of the aircraft with serial numbers are when it is not readily apparent what the identity of the aircraft is.

For instance if two same model planes collide it would be neccessary to identify what parts come from which plane. This is the senario for the collision of two 747's in Tenerife.

Another example would be the discovery in remote territory of aircraft debris perhaps years after the fact of its crash. this is the senario that matches that of the recent discovery in the west USA of a small plane in remote bush country.

In the case of Flight 77, the dna of the passengers and crew were found in the Pentagon, a FDR with flight data corresponding to that of flight 77 was found in the Pentagon, hundreds of people saw a plane fly low and fast towards the Pentagon and many of them actually saw it hit the Pentagon, damage patterns indicate a large aircraft flew low and fast towards the Pentagon at an altitude the would preclude it from flying over the Pentagon, no one saw this aircraft fly away from the Pentagon, no one has had any contact with the passengers and crew since Sept 11, 2001 and the aircraft in question is no longer in service.

Now tell us why the identity of the aircraft is so much in question that the NTSB would be required to use serial numbers to check its ID!

If I were to suffer a fatal traffic accident and my wife and my brother both ID'd me in the morgue it would not be neccessary to check my dental records.

 

[Turbofan]

TF, what makes anybody think that the software that extracts the data would not throw out the bad data or interpret the first piece of bad data as EOF?

because end of file is determined by a preset character/string/word designed
by the manufacturer. Who knows what that ID would have been in this case.
I might be able to get such info from Undertow.

 

[lapman]

because end of file is determined by a preset character/string/word designed
by the manufacturer. Who knows what that ID would have been in this case.
I might be able to get such info from Undertow.

Not necessarily. A single or string of bad characters could be interpreted as EOF to prevent bad data from being written to the file.

 

[beachnut]

Read up Flunked defino, that's not what I said, and it's not what I had implied.

#1. If you don't know the difference between a block erase (returning all
bit states to '1'), and overwriting data then go back to basics.

#2. Why would the FDR begin to overwrite current flight data when there
is older available memory in CPM? It would be kinda pointless to have a
system that erases the most current data huh?

Did anyone call that number and learn something yet?

The L3 number???
They said p4t conspiracy guys are fringe nut cases on 9/11 issues. Why did they say that? Looks like L3 understands p4t are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Read up ----- defino, ...

You should not change names to make up for your failed ideas.

Clearly implies the old data is overwritten; you are the one messing up the FDR information. Check it out and publish your evidence for your failed ideas. You post hearsay, no solid evidence. Why?