AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[bio]

You did not understand the statement by the spokesperson for the NTSB?

The only occasions for which they need to check the identity of the aircraft with serial numbers are when it is not readily apparent what the identity of the aircraft is.

For instance if two same model planes collide it would be neccessary to identify what parts come from which plane. This is the senario for the collision of two 747's in Tenerife.

Another example would be the discovery in remote territory of aircraft debris perhaps years after the fact of its crash. this is the senario that matches that of the recent discovery in the west USA of a small plane in remote bush country.

In the case of Flight 77, the dna of the passengers and crew were found in the Pentagon, a FDR with flight data corresponding to that of flight 77 was found in the Pentagon, hundreds of people saw a plane fly low and fast towards the Pentagon and many of them actually saw it hit the Pentagon, damage patterns indicate a large aircraft flew low and fast towards the Pentagon at an altitude the would preclude it from flying over the Pentagon, no one saw this aircraft fly away from the Pentagon, no one has had any contact with the passengers and crew since Sept 11, 2001 and the aircraft in question is no longer in service.

Now tell us why the identity of the aircraft is so much in question that the NTSB would be required to use serial numbers to check its ID!

If I were to suffer a fatal traffic accident and my wife and my brother both ID'd me in the morgue it would not be neccessary to check my dental records.

Well - you made your point of view clear.
The difference is:
You believe in the official theorie and so you see no need for suspicion. In contrast to me. I do not believe, therefore I want hard evidence. Therefore I develop more critical thinking and skepticism. The indications, on which your point of view is standing, are not hard facts for me. People see planes in the sky, see a plane crashing into the pentagon. Okay. Do they know, that it is Flight 77? Do you have witness-accounts for that?

Flight control Cleveland sought Flight 77 crashed, because it disappeared from the radar, transponder signal and communication lost. Therefore my question: What does this FDR say about this time around 9:00 am? That would be interesting for me.

 

[beachnut]

Well - you made your point of view clear.
The difference is:
You believe in the official theorie and so you see no need for suspicion. In contrast to me. I do not believe, therefore I want hard evidence. Therefore I develop more critical thinking and skepticism. The indications, on which your point of view is standing, are not hard facts for me. People see planes in the sky, see a plane crashing into the pentagon. Okay. Do they know, that it is Flight 77? Do you have witness-accounts for that?

Flight control Cleveland sought Flight 77 crashed, because it disappeared from the radar, transponder signal and communication lost. Therefore my question: What does this FDR say about this time around 9:00 am? That would be interesting for me.

This is easy, you say 77 did not impact the Pentagon. Prove it! You have all the piles of 9/11 truth evidence, albeit zero evidence. Take the evidence you have to prove 77 did not impact the Pentagon.

You should be able to do it, you post as if you know this is a fact. Now you prove it. You can do it?!

You ignore the RADAR data, you ignore the DNA, you ignore the FDR. These all prove 77 impacted at the Pentagon.

So prove it is not so.

At 8:54 77 was turning towards CD. At 9:00 77 was heading east. Why did you miss why the controllers lost 77 when he turned off his transponder? The FDR says he made a turn back to DC. It is simple to see in the data from the FDR found in the Pentagon. Did you know the FDR in the Pentagon has 25 hours of flight time from 77 prior flights to other cities? Did you know the DNA found in the Pentagon when 77 impact is from the very passengers who got on 77, and this evidence is solid and not a thing you make up will make it go away?

Oh, you prefer made up fantasy than reality. Is it too boring to have 19 terrorist do 9/11, it is too simple to understand so you have to make up lies?

 

[bje]

Your point is not clear for me.

Why am I not surprised?

What do want to say?

What part of the NTSB statement confuses you?

 

[bje]

Well - you made your point of view clear.
The difference is:
You believe in the official theorie and so you see no need for suspicion.

There is no "official theory." There is only the evidence.

Try something new on us.

 

[Turbofan]

No-one said it does write current data before older data. You argued it could not erase data without removing it from the AC.

When you figure out the difference between erasing and over-writing,
come and see me. Maybe Beachnut can help you with this one?

Word sample: 0101 0010 0111
Erased: 1111 1111 1111

Word Sample: 1001 0111 0110
Overwritten: 1011 0100 0100

Lapman, what determines "bad data" if it gets by parity/checksum? How does
the FDR know this before writing to CPM?

P.S. I love DNA that can out last titanium and aluminum in a fire!

 

[bio]

This is easy, you say 77 did not impact the Pentagon. Prove it! You have all the piles of 9/11 truth evidence, albeit zero evidence. Take the evidence you have to prove 77 did not impact the Pentagon.
[/FONT][/COLOR]

No - the government must prove their version with hard evidence. For example:
-video cameras, which are withhold from us, can prove that Flight 77 flew in the pentagon. Why not release it?
-debris from the plane, which hit the Pentagon. Why not identify them by their serial numbers as from Flight 77?
-DNA of the found "hijacker-remains". Why not try to match them with the real DNA of the alleged hijackers? Why this strange "process of elimination"?
-Why may the Indianapolis flight control not speak? Their identities are hold secret. They thought Flight 77 crashed.

What is that, the withholding of evidence? For me, as critical thinker, that is proof, that something stinks here. I do not know, what exactly, but I do know, that you want to believe..

 

[jaydeehess]

Well - you made your point of view clear.

I gave my point of view and backed it up with hard facts.
Fact: the FDR's were located in the Pentagon
Fact: The DNA of passengers and crew were loacted in the Pentagon
Fact: No one has seen or heard from the passengers and crew since sept 11 2001
Fact: Dozens of witnesses saw a low, fast aircraft consistent with a large Boeing fly towards the Pentagon
Fact: No one saw a large Boeing fly beyond the Pentagon
Fact: many winesses actually saw the impact including Sean Boger who was only a few dozen feet from it.

The difference is:
You believe in the official theorie and so you see no need for suspicion. In contrast to me. I do not believe,

On the contrary, you do believe. You believe in a vast, complex, complicated and wholly unneccessary conspiracy that includes some very bizzare things such as an aircraft capable of manouvers that no known aircraft can accomodate.

therefore I want hard evidence.

I just listed a fair bit of hard evidence. You say you want the serial numbers but we both know that if they were produced and matched the Boeing in question then the TM would simply claim that the evidence was 'planted' or 'fudged'. This much is quite obvious given that you do have the hard evidence of the DNA of the passengers but you would believe that this has been 'planted' at some point by TPTB. The aircraft serial numbers are no different.

Therefore I develop more critical thinking and skepticism.

No, you operate on the bassis that anything produced that cotradicts the notion of a vast and complicated plot by domestic personnel must by nevvessity be suspect and is therefore incorrect or a "lie" (a word thrown about constantly by the TM in general)

The indications, on which your point of view is standing, are not hard facts for me.

THAT is a POV

People see planes in the sky, see a plane crashing into the pentagon. Okay. Do they know, that it is Flight 77? Do you have witness-accounts for that?

The totality of the evidence , the DNA of persons on that flight, the FDR indicate that yes the plane they saw was the plane that contained that FDR and those passengers.

Flight control Cleveland sought Flight 77 crashed, because it disappeared from the radar, transponder signal and communication lost. Therefore my question: What does this FDR say about this time around 9:00 am? That would be interesting for me.

I am unsure about what you want to know. That the plane was below radar coverage (if indeed you assertion that it was not on primary radar is correct), that the transponders were turned off (yes the FDR indicates they were), that no radio communication was made by the aircraft to ATC (that is correct)?

 

[beachnut]

No - the government must prove their version with hard evidence. For example:
-video cameras, which are withhold from us, can prove that Flight 77 flew in the pentagon. Why not release it?
-debris from the plane, which hit the Pentagon. Why not identify them by their serial numbers as from Flight 77?
-DNA of the found "hijacker-remains". Why not try to match them with the real DNA of the alleged hijackers? Why this strange "process of elimination"?
-Why may the Indianapolis flight control not speak? Their identities are hold secret. They thought Flight 77 crashed.

What is that, the withholding of evidence? For me, as critical thinker, that is proof, that something stinks here. I do not know, what exactly, but I do know, that you want to believe..

Do you understand reality? You support pure fantasy.

So the answer is NO! you will not be getting the Pulitzer Prize for your work on 9/11, unless it is in FICTION. Good job, carry on with your closed loop not going to present this to the world truth movement with zero evidence. You have proven you can't put a dent in the fact 77 impacted the Pentagon on 9/11 due to terrorist.

And you thought you had something. You did not. You don't understand why ATC thought 77 crashed? Lack of research! Ur 7 years behind, and getting more behind.

 

[jaydeehess]

Fact is that there obviously exists a method for block erasure within the FDR and that odd things can occur when the item is subjected to violent forces even though the manufacturers do as much as they can to mitigate the problems that will be encountered during such a violent event.

P.S. I love DNA that can out last titanium and aluminum in a fire!

Your incredulity not withstanding, the human body is a wet item, the bodies were torn apart and scattered, and the building collapsed.

When two 747's collided on the runway in Tenerife every person on board was identified IIRC. (huge fire since both aircraft had full fuel loads)

 

[bio]

I gave my point of view and backed it up with hard facts.
Fact: the FDR's were located in the Pentagon
Fact: The DNA of passengers and crew were loacted in the Pentagon
Fact: No one has seen or heard from the passengers and crew since sept 11 2001
Fact: Dozens of witnesses saw a low, fast aircraft consistent with a large Boeing fly towards the Pentagon
Fact: No one saw a large Boeing fly beyond the Pentagon
Fact: many winesses actually saw the impact including Sean Boger who was only a few dozen feet from it.

(...)

Do know how many people saw an UFO? Ask them, who was the pilot, and what kind of aircraft it was ... What is the difference between people, who saw an UFO, and the people, who saw a plane hitting the pentagon?

 

[jaydeehess]

No - the government must prove their version with hard evidence.

Unless you return with replies concerning the thread topic this is my last reply to you , bio.

For example:
-video cameras, which are withhold from us, can prove that Flight 77 flew in the pentagon. Why not release it?

IF there is (are) video(s) that show the impact the Pentagon simply may not want to reveal exactly how well their surveilance is. This is a military installation, not Macy's Department Store. If there are no videos that capture the event then the pentagon will operate as militaries around the world do. They will neither confirm nor deny that such videos exist and again this is to not reveal their surveilence capabilities. they will not compromise building security to satisfy the whim of a fringe group on the internet.

-debris from the plane, which hit the Pentagon. Why not identify them by their serial numbers as from Flight 77?

Answered above a couple of times. Do try to keep up.

-DNA of the found "hijacker-remains". Why not try to match them with the real DNA of the alleged hijackers? Why this strange "process of elimination"?

Do you know where they might get "real", ie. known DNA from the hijackers? Perhaps they'd just like to ask their Mom's for a hairbrush that the guy used

-Why may the Indianapolis flight control not speak? Their identities are hold secret. They thought Flight 77 crashed.

It is standard operating procedure that all communications with the public in regards to aircraft incidents be done through the press office.
I used to work for Transport Canada and ATC and FSS were not to speak with the press without getting clearance to do so first in the case of an accident. Two did occur while I was there. In on the pilot of a small aircraft with 4 passengers had a heart attack and the guy in the other seat did not know how to fly. He paniced, they crashed, all killed. The FSS operator who talked to the paniced passenger knew how to fly and was trying to talk him down. He later spoke with the local TV station and newspaper BUT he had to get permission to do so and instructions on howmuch detail he could get into.

What is that, the withholding of evidence? For me, as critical thinker, that is proof, that something stinks here. I do not know, what exactly, but I do know, that you want to believe..

So its no more than a hunch , a suggestion yet you will still willfully ignore the hard evidence that is available.
Go figure...........

 

[bio]

Some of your political responses and semantic legerdemain remember on "Radio Yerevan"-jokes. Armenian Radio jokes have been very popular in the Soviet Union and in other Communist countries of the ex-Eastern bloc since the second half of the 20th century.

for example:
The Armenian Radio was asked: "Is it true that comrade cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin's car was stolen in Moscow during the celebrations?"
The Armenian Radio answers: "In principle yes, but it was not in Moscow, rather in Kiev, and it was not his car, but his bike and it was not comrade cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, but comrade highschool teacher Gagarin and his first name was not Yuri, but Leonid..."

 

[jaydeehess]

Do know how many people saw an UFO? Ask them, who was the pilot, and what kind of aircraft it was ... What is the difference between people, who saw an UFO, and the people, who saw a plane hitting the pentagon?

ooooh I said I wouldn't do this...... this is definatly the last derail reply from me.

You edited that for "perfection"???

You willfully ignore, or are incapable of comprehending that the totality of the evidence indicates it was Flight 77 that impacted the Pentagon. The ID of the aircraft type and the fact that it did hit the building by witnesses is one thing that definitively shows that such an event took place whereas the identification of the persons on board ending up in the Pentagon and the FDR associated with that specific aircraft also being in the pentagon conclusivley indicates that it was the plane that the witnesses saw impact the Pentagon.

ETA: I have made no "political response" and your lame Armenian radio reference is off topic and ridiculous. I am embarassed for you having seen you post it several times.

 

[bio]

ironie

The JREF Radio was asked: "Is it true, that a hijacked Flight 77 crashed into the pentagon?"
The JREF Radio answers: "In principle yes, but the plane-debris were not identified as from flight 77, the flight recorder, and no cameras tapes are released, showing a plane, but many people saw an airplane but the flight controllers are not permitted to say anything and the DNA of the hijackers could not be identified either but .."

 

[beachnut]

The JREF Radio was asked: "Is it true, that a hijacked Flight 77 crashed into the pentagon?"
The JREF Radio answers: "In principle yes, but the plane-debris were not identified as from flight 77, the flight recorder, and no cameras tapes are released, showing a plane, but many people saw an airplane but the flight controllers are not permitted to say anything and the DNA of the hijackers could not be identified either but .."

Bio radio; "I ignore all the evidence and believe in fantasy. I have no idea what happen on 9/11."

The world to bio! You don’t understand because you deny reality, you deny evidence, you love fantasy ideas made up to mislead you, made up to help you mislead others with your lack of logic, knowledge and the evidence.

To remain in ignorance on 9/11, you deny everything

As you drift off topic, with me, you have missed saying anything about the FDR. Why is that? Your failure to understand 9/11 offers zero on this thread; get on topic or open a thread on your lack of evidence and why you know nothing about 9/11. Zero evidence thread, is that good title?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

The JREF Radio was asked: "Is it true, that a hijacked Flight 77 crashed into the pentagon?"
The JREF Radio answers: "In principle yes, but the plane-debris were not identified as from flight 77, the flight recorder, and no cameras tapes are released, showing a plane, but many people saw an airplane but the flight controllers are not permitted to say anything and the DNA of the hijackers could not be identified either but .."

There's a flaw in your logic.

The debris was identified as from flight 77, the FDR and camera tapes were released and show the plane, the flight controllers are not only allowed to speak, but some are here on this forum speaking, The DNA of the hijackers was identified.

 

[Turbofan]

Fact is that there obviously exists a method for block erasure within the FDR and that odd things can occur when the item is subjected to violent forces even though the manufacturers do as much as they can to mitigate the problems that will be encountered during such a violent event.

Fact is you're dead wrong. Call the number and try and spin that BS

That's all you guys do is run your mouth without checking facts. Make up
more junk and try to get away from calling the L3 tech support? I laugh!

You're proven incorrect in your assumption, so man up. There is NO CONNECTION
to the block erase functoin while the memory module resides in the FDR casing.

Your incredulity not withstanding, the human body is a wet item, the bodies were torn apart and scattered, and the building collapsed.

When two 747's collided on the runway in Tenerife every person on board was identified IIRC. (huge fire since both aircraft had full fuel loads)

[/QUOTE]


If I recall correctly, the fuselage and large wing sections and engines were found too.

 

[beachnut]

Fact is you're dead wrong. Call the number and try and spin that BS

That's all you guys do is run your mouth without checking facts. Make up
more junk and try to get away from calling the L3 tech support? I laugh!

You're proven incorrect in your assumption, so man up. There is NO CONNECTION
to the block erase functoin while the memory module resides in the FDR casing.



If I recall correctly, the fuselage and large wing sections and engines were found too.

Your lack of physics is showing, the crash at Tenerife was slow speed, not top speed. That is why a high speed impact has smaller plane parts than a slow speed, low kinetic energy event. I would say an order of magnitude less Kinetic Energy in Tenerife than the Pentagon Impact of 77. Why do p4t guys have massive problems with physics? Why are you making a error like this?

Now how does your latest problem with the FDR, your lack of understanding have to do with your lie 77 did not hit the Pentagon? What is the connection to your FDR talk and your fantasy, or lie of 77 not hitting the Pentagon.

Why does the NTSB data have an extra second than your p4t cult decode? Did they mess something up?
You have failed to show your work, your sources, and your references for your latest FDR rant that has nothing to do with 77 impact at the Pentagon.


Why did L3 say p4t ideas are nut case ideas? Call them, ask them yourself. Are you afraid of the truth?

Turbofan; I advise you to not post things that have ties to the real world, the physics problems of p4t and lack of experience with real aircraft accident investigation techniques and knowledge will make your ideas easier to see as false.

 

[bje]

No - the government must prove their version with hard evidence.

Please explain why the government has to explain anything. Pretending that they do without explanation is getting you nowhere.

For example:

-video cameras, which are withhold from us, can prove that Flight 77 flew in the pentagon. Why not release it?

Videos are irrelevant. We already have the evidence that AA 77 hit the Pentagon.

-debris from the plane, which hit the Pentagon. Why not identify them by their serial numbers as from Flight 77?

See above. I already explained to you that serial numbers are not needed for identification of the aircraft since all of the evidence already demonstrates conclusively that it was AA 77.

-DNA of the found "hijacker-remains". Why not try to match them with the real DNA of the alleged hijackers? Why this strange "process of elimination"?

Done.

-Why may the Indianapolis flight control not speak? Their identities are hold secret. They thought Flight 77 crashed.

What is that, the withholding of evidence?

Everything you list is irrelevant to knowing that AA 77 hit the Pentagon. You have yet to present any evidence that AA 77 did not hit the Pentagon. When will you get to that part, bio?

For me, as critical thinker, that is proof, that something stinks here.

If you had any concept of critical thinking you would not have written such illogical nonsense, much less think it. But you're just repeating debunked nonsense like a robot. Best you move on and take some lessons in critical thinking.

 

[TjW]

Do know how many people saw an UFO? Ask them, who was the pilot, and what kind of aircraft it was ... What is the difference between people, who saw an UFO, and the people, who saw a plane hitting the pentagon?

The physical recovery of the observed object.