jimlintott said:
I live in a state where we have two seasons: winter and road repair.
There is never a smooth ride, no matter what you are driving up here. It's not unusual to see potholes over 1 foot deep.
in the spring, it's like driving slalom.
I live in a state where we have two seasons: winter and road repair.
There is never a smooth ride, no matter what you are driving up here. It's not unusual to see potholes over 1 foot deep.
in the spring, it's like driving slalom.
neutrino_cannon
Master Poster
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casebro said:
http://fr.toyota.be/showroom/yaris/specs.asp?body=T
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius
The prius is about 300-300 kg massier than the yaris.
Other than that... I'll be b***ered. For a whole lot less technology, the yaris doesn't stack badly against the prius at all.
Most notably in my mind, it's faster.
neutrino_cannon
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Hmmm...
http://www.smartmoney.com/consumer/index.cfm?story=20031126
I guess the lesson is to refrain from hybrids if money is your primary concern. For the time being.
Looking at the wikipedia article on the prius, however, I conclude that the technology will advance very rapidly.
http://www.smartmoney.com/consumer/index.cfm?story=20031126
I guess the lesson is to refrain from hybrids if money is your primary concern. For the time being.
Looking at the wikipedia article on the prius, however, I conclude that the technology will advance very rapidly.
actually, the blue book value of my Insight has remained pretty steady. I could easily sell it for exactly what I paid for it over a year ago.
Of course, this is because people are reacting to high gas prices in a knee jerk way....but caveat emptor to them!
Of course, this is because people are reacting to high gas prices in a knee jerk way....but caveat emptor to them!
DavidJames
Penultimate Amazing
That lesson is missing some key facts. Specificially any tax incentives provided by states. Colorado, for example, provides credits, not deductions and my Civic Hybrid got me over $2,000 back this year. Next year my Insight will mean over $4,000 more back in my pocket.neutrino_cannon said:
The basic premise of the article is valid though, purchasing a Hybrid purely to save money, may not be a wise move. Although as the price of gas approaches $3.00/gallon the pay back period gets shorter and shorter.
Badger
Member of the Peanut Gallery
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I just checked my spreadsheet, and my 2001 Echo (4 dr, manual) is showing average mileage of 6.10855 l/100km, or 46.42458 mpg (imp) or 38.657 mpg (US) based on data gathered over the last 4 years.
Driving is approx 1/2 and 1/2 (city/hwy) with half the highway mileage being country roads. I drive it winter and summer in central Alberta (temp range -47C to +35C, so far, and snow depth up to 20 cm.....greater than 20 cm of snow, and it planes up and loses traction and then I'm hooped.)
If money is an issue, my cost savings in initial purchase, vs a hybrid, would have been in the neighbourhood of $10k (cdn).
I wonder about the comparison of resources to build a hybrid as opposed to the Echo, and how that balances any emissions/fuel consumption concerns.
That all being said, I'm happy with my Echo. Very happy.
Driving is approx 1/2 and 1/2 (city/hwy) with half the highway mileage being country roads. I drive it winter and summer in central Alberta (temp range -47C to +35C, so far, and snow depth up to 20 cm.....greater than 20 cm of snow, and it planes up and loses traction and then I'm hooped.)
If money is an issue, my cost savings in initial purchase, vs a hybrid, would have been in the neighbourhood of $10k (cdn).
I wonder about the comparison of resources to build a hybrid as opposed to the Echo, and how that balances any emissions/fuel consumption concerns.
That all being said, I'm happy with my Echo. Very happy.
DavidJames
Penultimate Amazing
True, but I still do the math at every fill up. The gauges are surprisingly close, but in my case typcially over state the MPG by a couple, but there have been one or two occasions where it was understated.Ladewig said:
jimlintott
Master Poster
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Then you are gathering data. You just have a machine doing it. I am not skeptical of claims regarding hybrids as 55mpg is lower than their EPA ratings. I was skeptical of an 86 Honda getting that.
Even with economy guages people will still report either the best or the worst number they see as being their average. As a service writer the fuel economy lies were always as being really bad. The vehicles always tested out as normal.
To get an accurate figure you should average over many fillups especially if you don't pump your fuel. You can vary a couple of litres here and there.
Me too. I love that little car. (Mine that is.)
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
As I mentioned, I have a 2001 Insight; about 48K miles.
After reading a few sites about how to get the 'most' of your Insight, I've been trying to put a few 'tips' into practice. One of tips is to floor it at gear 1 & 2 from a stopping position, and then throw it into gear 5; the theory being that your electric battery will be used to it's fullest extent, and save gas.
So, after a half hour drive on the highway, dinner, and a half hour drive back to the house, driving at 55 mph and conserving gas, I had a nicely charged battery, only a few bars from the top.
So, 1.5 hours later, time for coffee. Within 5 minutes of driving (no highways), my battery has dropped to half. Within another 5 minutes, my battery has suddenly, without warning, dropped to 2 bars. And I'm not going to be getting anymore electric boost on this particular trip, thus forcing me to use nothing but the puny gas engine.
Things to consider for the potential Insight buyer.
After reading a few sites about how to get the 'most' of your Insight, I've been trying to put a few 'tips' into practice. One of tips is to floor it at gear 1 & 2 from a stopping position, and then throw it into gear 5; the theory being that your electric battery will be used to it's fullest extent, and save gas.
So, after a half hour drive on the highway, dinner, and a half hour drive back to the house, driving at 55 mph and conserving gas, I had a nicely charged battery, only a few bars from the top.
So, 1.5 hours later, time for coffee. Within 5 minutes of driving (no highways), my battery has dropped to half. Within another 5 minutes, my battery has suddenly, without warning, dropped to 2 bars. And I'm not going to be getting anymore electric boost on this particular trip, thus forcing me to use nothing but the puny gas engine.
Things to consider for the potential Insight buyer.
ktesibios
Worthless Aging Hippie
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I'm having trouble understanding why automatics are worse for fuel economy than manual shift transmissions. Just off the top of my head, it seems that maximizing economy is the sort of thing that an automatic control system would do better than the human brain.
Is the problem losses in the torque converter? I'm not much on mechanics, so I'd appreciate an explanation.
BTW, my conventional Honda Civic (1.6l engine, 4-speed automatic), averages around 28 mpg on surface streets and 32-33 on the freeway. The EPA estimates are 28/35, but as someone observed, the highway rating is done at a mean speed of 48 mph, and freeways around here generally move at one of two speeds- 75 mph and 0.
Is the problem losses in the torque converter? I'm not much on mechanics, so I'd appreciate an explanation.
BTW, my conventional Honda Civic (1.6l engine, 4-speed automatic), averages around 28 mpg on surface streets and 32-33 on the freeway. The EPA estimates are 28/35, but as someone observed, the highway rating is done at a mean speed of 48 mph, and freeways around here generally move at one of two speeds- 75 mph and 0.
ktesibios said:
An automatic loses more energy than a manual. With the exact same engine, you get more horsepower at the wheels with a manual than you do with an automatic.
I know this not because of caring about gas mileage (because I don't, at all), but because of caring about horsepower!
I think it would be a safe bet that the loss of energy means that it takes more gas to get the same amount of horsepower at the wheels.
That being said, the new car I just bought has an automatic transmission, with a "Sportronic" shift option, where I can manually shift up and down. It's the first car I've ever bought that is an automatic, and I would have never considered it if not for the Sportronic shifter. I know I lose a little HP compared to the manual, but I really like driving it.
Edited to correct the name of the transmission. Different manufacturers call this type of transmission different things. It's been a long day, and I am TIRED. Couldn't think straight.
casebro
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ktesibios said:
Yhe torque converter losses have been minimized with the locking converter technology, cutting overall losses to 5% from 10%. Current losses are due to all those clutches rubbbing even if they are disengaged, and the hydraulic pump that runs all the time to make pressure to control the tranny. There has probably also some gains lately due to tranny fluid improvements.
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
Addendum
Did same driving technique tonight to same location.
This time, I had about a quarter power in the main batteries when I started.
When I got there... I still had a quarter power.
To sum up: bleeding edge technology leads to weirdness.
Did same driving technique tonight to same location.
This time, I had about a quarter power in the main batteries when I started.
When I got there... I still had a quarter power.
To sum up: bleeding edge technology leads to weirdness.
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
bug_girl said:I think you forced a recal on the battery. If it's never happened before, you were about due
?
Not sure what this means.
I do know that the Insight can't all that accurately measure how much power is in the main battery, and the computer will sometimes make a sudden correction once it does accurately figure it out. But after 2 half hour periods of driving, the battery level being near the top is pretty much what I'd expect it to be.
It doesn't sense that it would be circling the drain near the bottom, only to be suddenly revealed during my driving to coffee, after an hour of highway driving. Especially when during that hour, I was constantly watching the main batteries getting charged.
The only thing that makes sense to me here is that the battery almost completely discharged. Maybe when it gets almost completely full.
Otherwise, the drive last night, and the night before, using the same driving techniques should have resulted in an almost empty battery; it didn't. I had the same amount of power at the end of both trips.
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
bug_girl said:
hmm, interesting bug, girl. I mean, FEATURE
As I (and the technical correspondent at Road & Track) understand it, the pure electric mode on hybrids is for light-load cruise, not stop-and-go traffic as most people seem to believe. I would thus think that accelerating from a stop would be the time when the power from the combustion engine is being used the most, so it seems counterintuitive that you would be maximizing battery use by flooring it at any time, really. What am I missing?bignickel said:
DavidJames
Penultimate Amazing
During my research of the Prius, I read that drivers should drive "normally" and not try and squeeze out MPG. The internal computer will determine the most effective balance of combustion engine and batter power.ReFLeX said: