2012 Debates

[Dymanic]

It might not be stupid from an election perspective but aside from that, yes, yes it is galactically stupid.

At the very least, measuring the size of the US Navy by counting the number of freaking boats is... well, "galactically stupid" works, I guess. It's a special kind of stupid, that's for sure. It's a blinding beacon of stupid intended to summon a massive drone army of stupid by reaching out to all corners of the galaxy with the rallying cry, "TO ME! TO ME!".

The USS Nimitz alone -- at 100,000 long tons, one of the largest warships ever built -- could obliterate the entire US Navy of 1917 as easily as if they were fish in a barrel. A single ONE of our 14 Ohio-class SSBNs ("Trident") nuclear submarines could wipe 192 cities off the map from a distance of up to 4,600 miles away. It's an awesome amount of power to place in the hands of a guy who either genuinely lacks a basic understanding of the nature of modern warfare or would feign such ignorance if he thought doing so would help him to achieve his political goals. Going by his scores in math and geography, I'm betting on the former.

 

[ZirconBlue]

Long story short, Obama has done pretty much what Bush would have done if Bush had a 3rd term.

Yeah, somehow I doubt GWB would have ended DADT or even attempted any sort of meaningful Healthcare reform.

 

[Toontown]

That must be an odd forum where all of the "lefties" hold exactly the same opinions, but if that is the case, then I can understand your disorientation when you come to a forum where members fill in all sorts of positions on both sides of center, both centrist and extreme. I realize that it is much easier when you're dealing with a strict dichotomy, but if you're going to be taken seriously here, you need to start getting used to the fact that our members are not so easily grouped.

Some of us (blush) have been on the liberal sides of some position, and on the conservative sides of others. I realize this means a lot more work for you, but you're actually going to have to pay attention to what people say, because we had all the pigeonholes stopped up.

Nice speech.

However, my "Relax, lefties" speech was addressed to the lefties to whom it may concern. I didn't name any names.

You're either a leftie or you're not. If you don't tow the leftist line, then you're not really a leftie, are you. Therefore, it would seem obvious that I am addressing those who do tow the leftist line.

I am surprised that you think radical-leftist-dominated forums are an oddity. They're quite ubiquitious, actually, and the lefties who frequent them do tend very strongly towards swarmlike behavior and cookie-cutter beliefs.

But if you say there aren't any of those around here, then I suppose everyone can safely ignore anything I address to "lefties", and not get all offended and defensive.

 

[RandFan]

Yeah, somehow I doubt GWB would have ended DADT or even attempted any sort of meaningful Healthcare reform.

Thank you.

 

[Toontown]

Yeah, somehow I doubt GWB would have ended DADT or even attempted any sort of meaningful Healthcare reform.

As Obama was at pains to point out just last night, the primary directive of the president is "to protect the American people". He would also have been correct to say foreign policy and diplomacy in general.

The president doesn't even have the constitutional power to enact healthcare reform. That is for the legislative branch to decide or not. The president can only sign or veto the legislation when it comes to his desk.

 

[Lowpro]

I guess being a leftie isn't about a personal position, but a position taken against someone else's personal position. IE I'm not a leftie unless my position sends off a clear message to you that I am a leftie.

 

[UTLonghorn]

As Obama was at pains to point out just last night, the primary directive of the president is "to protect the American people". He would also have been correct to say foreign policy and diplomacy in general.

The president doesn't even have the constitutional power to enact healthcare reform. That is for the legislative branch to decide or not. The president can only sign or veto the legislation when it comes to his desk.

Had Obama never set the agenda for health care reform to get passed, then it's not certain it would have ever been seriously brought to the table. If Bush was in office, it never would have been an agenda and congress never would have bothered trying to pass it anyway because, even if it passed congress, it would have been vetoed.

 

[Lowpro]

As Obama was at pains to point out just last night, the primary directive of the president is "to protect the American people". He would also have been correct to say foreign policy and diplomacy in general.

The president doesn't even have the constitutional power to enact healthcare reform. That is for the legislative branch to decide or not. The president can only sign or veto the legislation when it comes to his desk.

You don't understand the powers of the executive branch, nor its history either. Shades of Roosevelt...

 

[remirol]

I guess being a leftie isn't about a personal position, but a position taken against someone else's personal position. IE I'm not a leftie unless my position sends off a clear message to you that I am a leftie.

Lucky for me I'm right-handed. No lefty signals from ME!

 

[Tricky]

Nice speech.

However, my "Relax, lefties" speech was addressed to the lefties to whom it may concern. I didn't name any names.

So it's really not at anyone. Few people identify themselves by the insults that others throw at them.

You're either a leftie or you're not. If you don't tow the leftist line, then you're not really a leftie, are you.

LOL. I can see you don't pay attention very well. I just pointed out that people hold different positions on different issues. Your forced (and false) dichotomy of "either you are or your not" is ludicrously simplistic and ridiculously wrong. There is no "line" that I tow. I my call myself generally "liberal", but that label does not mean you can predict my position on any given issue.

I am surprised that you think radical-leftist-dominated forums are an oddity. They're quite ubiquitious, actually, and the lefties who frequent them do tend very strongly towards swarmlike behavior and cookie-cutter beliefs.

What I find is that many people assume they have "cookie-cutter" beliefs because it is easier than actually finding out what their beliefs are. One might assume that you are anti-Obama because you throw the term "lefties" around, but those of us who read your posts would realize that this is not necessarily correct. That is what I mean by "don't pigeonhole". It is a lazy shortcut to being wrong.

But if you say there aren't any of those around here, then I suppose everyone can safely ignore anything I address to "lefties", and not get all offended and defensive.

I'm annoyed when people try to bin others into narrow categories. I'm annoyed when conservatives, do it and I'm annoyed when liberals do it. (and libertarians and socialists and tea-partiers etc. ad infinitum.)

Go ahead and do it if you like, but many of the thoughtful and ideologically diverse people here will come to the conclusion that you are not to be taken seriously. Your choice.

 

[Toontown]

Had Obama never set the agenda for health care reform to get passed, then it's not certain it would have ever been seriously brought to the table. If Bush was in office, it never would have been an agenda and congress never would have bothered trying to pass it anyway because, even if it passed congress, it would have been vetoed.

Which doesn't change the fact that the president's constitutionally-mandated primary responsibility is defense and foreign policy.

I was speaking specifically about defense and foreign policy when I said Bush would have done much the same as Obama has done.

Nor is it true that Bush would never have approved health care legislation. It is only (probably) true that he wouldn't have approved that particular version.

 

[Toontown]

I'm annoyed when people try to bin others into narrow categories. I'm annoyed when conservatives, do it and I'm annoyed when liberals do it. (and libertarians and socialists and tea-partiers etc. ad infinitum.)

Go ahead and do it if you like, but many of the thoughtful and ideologically diverse people here will come to the conclusion that you are not to be taken seriously. Your choice.

And I'm annoyed when people try to badger me into behaving in their narrowly prescribed manner, on pain of not being taken seriously by the proper kind of people if I don't.

It's odd. I see a lot of pidgeonholing going on every day, but I don't recall anyone else getting your "bad pidgeonholer" lecture. Perhaps you are only annoyed when the pidgeonholing dragnet might include you personally.

 

[Biscuit]

Yeah, somehow I doubt GWB would have ended DADT or even attempted any sort of meaningful Healthcare reform.

Nor would he have gone after Bin Laden as he, "Truly isn't concerned."

 

[Tricky]

And I'm annoyed when people try to badger me into behaving in their narrowly prescribed manner, on pain of not being taken seriously by the proper kind of people if I don't.

It odd. I see a lot of pidgeonholing going on every day, but I don't recall anyone else getting your "bad pidgeonholer" lecture. Perhaps you are only annoyed when the pidgeonholing dragnet might include you personally.

I understand that you can't read every post. But here's one where I express how all conservatives are not the same, and I even defend some of their positions.

But the only reason you're being badgered is that you are engaging in the pigeonholing behavior. I've badgered liberals too. Ask Lefty Sergeant.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

At the very least, measuring the size of the US Navy by counting the number of freaking boats is... well, "galactically stupid" works, I guess. It's a special kind of stupid, that's for sure. It's a blinding beacon of stupid intended to summon a massive drone army of stupid by reaching out to all corners of the galaxy with the rallying cry, "TO ME! TO ME!".

The USS Nimitz alone -- at 100,000 long tons, one of the largest warships ever built -- could obliterate the entire US Navy of 1917 as easily as if they were fish in a barrel. A single ONE of our 14 Ohio-class SSBNs ("Trident") nuclear submarines could wipe 192 cities off the map from a distance of up to 4,600 miles away. It's an awesome amount of power to place in the hands of a guy who either genuinely lacks a basic understanding of the nature of modern warfare or would feign such ignorance if he thought doing so would help him to achieve his political goals. Going by his scores in math and geography, I'm betting on the former.

Of course, if you do just want to count ships, the US Navy has 192 major combat vessels (aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers, frigates, submarines), which is 40 percent more than the second largest navy (China). In fact, the US Navy has almost as many major combat vessels as its 2 major rivals (Russia and China) combined.

 

[Toontown]

Nor would he have gone after Bin Laden as he, "Truly isn't concerned."

You remind me of Romney, who also took several things Obama said out of context and spun false conclusions from them.

Bush would have been on bin Laden like a duck on a june bug.

 

[Biscuit]

The president doesn't even have the constitutional power to enact healthcare reform. That is for the legislative branch to decide or not. The president can only sign or veto the legislation when it comes to his desk.

That's right, Obama was just sitting at his desk one day when out of nowhere a senator walked in a laid out a healthcare reform bill. Well Obama was mighty shocked but sure enough he signed that surprise healthcare bill. That kids is the story of the affordable care act.

 

[Toontown]

That's right, Obama was just sitting at his desk one day when out of nowhere a senator walked in a laid out a healthcare reform bill. Well Obama was mighty shocked but sure enough he signed that surprise healthcare bill. That kids is the story of the affordable care act.

Now more than ever you remind me of Romney.

 

[elbe]

The president doesn't even have the constitutional power to enact healthcare reform. That is for the legislative branch to decide or not. The president can only sign or veto the legislation when it comes to his desk.

Does Romney (et al.) know all that? He sure sounds like he's going to singlehandedly enact some legislation as soon as he gets in.

 

[Toontown]

I understand that you can't read every post. But here's one where I express how all conservatives are not the same, and I even defend some of their positions.

But the only reason you're being badgered is that you are engaging in the pigeonholing behavior. I've badgered liberals too. Ask Lefty Sergeant.

Good work badgering Lefty Sergeant. One can't be too hard on Lefty Sergeant.

I should point out that you, as a self-described "liberal", do not fit neatly into my "leftist" pidgeonhole. I differentiate between "liberals" and "leftists". It's a scale.

You badger people for exhibiting pidgeonholing behavior. I badger people for exhibiting leftist behavior. Potatoes, potatos. Between us, we could get quite a few of them badgered before we're done.