10 story hole in WTC 7

[MaGZ]

How do earthquakes cause fires?

A break in gas lines.

 

[MaGZ]

From a page you linked to yourself: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/images/teaser/911_wtc_map.gif

Hans

Is the building in question on Broadway or Barclay?

The photo you link says 30 W Broadway.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Is the building in question on Broadway or Barclay?

The photo you link says 30 W Broadway.

What photo? It is a map. Seems to be on Barclay and West St.

Hans

 

[Firestone]

30 W Broadway is +/- North of WTC 7:

 

[jaydeehess]

If the diesel engines are running, the louvers are open.

Yes and this is not neccessarily where the fuel supply pipes were punctured. In fact if there was a fuel fire then it is more likely that the line was punctured some distance from the generator. The generator is in one room and the door of a generator room is a good seal. The fuel is never in the same room. The louvers open to the outside for the generator room. Its been a long time but it seems to me that the fuel came from another floor through pipes that ran up the elevator shaft or nearby then ran horizontally to the generator.

Every floor must have shear strength in both directions.
[bracing to keep the columns from bending to the side]
The lower floors of a 47 story building must have a great deal of shear strength to handle the stresses of holding up 47 floor building in a hurricane.
Floors falling down will tear away, they will not make 15 massive support columns buckle to the side.
I'm just a carpenter, but this is an easy one

Yes that is true but you also know for certain that there is very significant damage to the south face perimeter columns. This requires that the core columns bear the load south of the core in a catenary fashion. That is a stress that would stress those columns toward the south at the level of the damage to the perimeter putting some of those columns at or near their shear limit already as well as adding to the copression load they are carrying. This was most certainly occuring at the SW corner and likely was also happening wherever a south face perimeter coulmn was taken out.

You are a carpenter , ok imagine a typical wood frame house with a center load bearing wall as well as the load bearing outer wall. Remove several 2 X 4's along one outside wall. The load transfers to the center supports and adjacent outer wall members. You know very well that there is a reason for 16 inch centers. What happens if you build to 32 inch centers?(you are an American correct? I don't have to convert to centimeters right?)

MaGZ, the fuel tanks were damaged but relatively intact in the basement of WTC 7. The fuel was removed from them during the clean-up.

You still haven't answered my query as to how an air-to-air missile manages to hit a structural column deep within a building and cause enough damage to bring the building down.

 

[beachnut]

A missile impact on the 14th floor.
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

Our young neoNazi from the nationalvanguard white supremacist site is trying to show a photo of damage done by the towers and claim that as a missile strike. He does not understand how small a missile is.

MaGeeeZeeeee your source is a neoNazi site; it really makes it false by association. The whole article has holes in it. Your time line of damage is also wrong. There were no missiles; no one saw missiles; you are showing us your neoNazi roots; based on lies and worse.

 

[jaydeehess]

I thought it was a well known thing.

http://www.jonhs.net/911/speak_out_bartmer.htm

Not really relevent to this thread. His complaint is about the alledged cover-up of the toxicity of the dust.

 

[MaGZ]

Yes and this is not neccessarily where the fuel supply pipes were punctured. In fact if there was a fuel fire then it is more likely that the line was punctured some distance from the generator. The generator is in one room and the door of a generator room is a good seal. The fuel is never in the same room. The louvers open to the outside for the generator room. Its been a long time but it seems to me that the fuel came from another floor through pipes that ran up the elevator shaft or nearby then ran horizontally to the generator.



Yes that is true but you also know for certain that there is very significant damage to the south face perimeter columns. This requires that the core columns bear the load south of the core in a catenary fashion. That is a stress that would stress those columns toward the south at the level of the damage to the perimeter putting some of those columns at or near their shear limit already as well as adding to the copression load they are carrying. This was most certainly occuring at the SW corner and likely was also happening wherever a south face perimeter coulmn was taken out.

You are a carpenter , ok imagine a typical wood frame house with a center load bearing wall as well as the load bearing outer wall. Remove several 2 X 4's along one outside wall. The load transfers to the center supports and adjacent outer wall members. You know very well that there is a reason for 16 inch centers. What happens if you build to 32 inch centers?(you are an American correct? I don't have to convert to centimeters right?)

MaGZ, the fuel tanks were damaged but relatively intact in the basement of WTC 7. The fuel was removed from them during the clean-up.

You still haven't answered my query as to how an air-to-air missile manages to hit a structural column deep within a building and cause enough damage to bring the building down.

Thanks for the clarification on the diesel tanks. Also I read there were some diesel tanks on the second or third floors, is that correct?

I never suggested the missile brought WTC 7 down. I believe WTC 7 was a controlled demolition. The missile damaged the souther face on the 14th floor. I am uncertain how much damage the missile did.

 

[eddyk]

Not really relevent to this thread. His complaint is about the alledged cover-up of the toxicity of the dust.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/100207heardbombs.htm

The video on the link I posted doesn't work for me...is it the same as in that link?

I didn't see any reason for that building to fall down the way it did -- and a lot of guys should be saying the same thing. I don't know what the fear is coming out and talking about it? I don't know -- but it's the truth."

I saw a hole. I didn't see a hole bad enough to knock a building down, though. Yeah there was definitely fire in the building, but I didn't hear any... I didn't hear any creaking, or... I didn't hear any indication that it was going to come down.

 

[jaydeehess]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/100207heardbombs.htm

The video on the link I posted doesn't work for me...is it the same as in that link?

It didn't work for me either. I was going by the text below the video window which dealt with the dust issue.

 

[jaydeehess]

Thanks for the clarification on the diesel tanks. Also I read there were some diesel tanks on the second or third floors, is that correct?

I never suggested the missile brought WTC 7 down. I believe WTC 7 was a controlled demolition. The missile damaged the souther face on the 14th floor. I am uncertain how much damage the missile did.

There were several deisel tanks in the building.

However if this were a demolition orchestrated by evil people then they would care nothing about setting off explosives with tanks full of fuel in the building. They , according to standard CT contention, have just killed thousands of Americans and destroyed a $billion dollars worth of structures and sent the economy into a tailspin. .... but are you trying to say they'd be concerned about a few more thousand gallons of deisel fuel spilled about?

If this were a demolition due to the building being so unsteady as to require that it be demolished then they simply would have said so. They did that to other buildings in the complex.

 

[fezzic]

2 x 12,000, 2 x 6,000 gallon tanks at underground level, 1 x 6,000 gallon on 2/3 floor, smaller (under 300 gallon) tanks on 5, 7, 8, 9th floors.

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf page 5-14, Table 5.2

20,000 gallons recovered from the 2 x 12,000 gallon tanks after the events.

 

[Christopher7]

Is the building in question on Broadway or Barclay?

The photo you link says 30 W Broadway.

This thread is about the lack of evidence for the debris damage/fire hypothesis [WTC 7]
In particular, the 10 story gouge as described on pg 18 of the NIST Apx. L report
Kindly stop spamming this thread and allowing those who want to bury the facts that i have been presenting, in an endless debate on other subjects.
Please start your own thread if you want to talk about missiles and other buildings.

 

[jaydeehess]

Is the building in question on Broadway or Barclay?

The photo you link says 30 W Broadway.

Take a few adult education classes and learn to read.
Do you require someone to type in posts for you?

 

[Arus808]

This thread is about the lack of evidence for the debris damage/fire hypothesis [WTC 7]

of which that there are tons of evidence, you just happen to ignore them

In particular, the 10 story gouge as described on pg 18 of the NIST Apx. L report

it was a "best" guess on their part based on testimony by eyewitnesse,s the firefighters report, and images and videos captured that day.

You know what best guess is right?

 

[Christopher7]

Forgive me if this is an unnecessary contribution.
But I've been reading this thread for the first time. I got through the first page of posts and I noticed by that point no one had provided either...
1. The "Steve Spak photo". Which is the photo of the south face of 7 WTC which first began circulating last year and which clearly shows the "gouge" (or "hole") in the south face of the building which several firefighters reported witnessing up close while standing at the base of the building.
and 2. the Firehouse Magazine interviews with those firefighters in which the hole in the face of the building is described.

I just didn't want to have to read through all 22 pages of the thread to confirm whether or not this information has been provided.
But in the off chance that it is has not been, I will be glad to provide it.

This photo shows the "large debris hole near the center of the south face around floor 14" [NIST Apx. L pg 18]

http://wtc.net.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf

I have a copy but not the URL's for the FM interviews.
Go ahead and post them.

 

[Christopher7]

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

How do we know if this is true. The entire 20,000 gallons that supposedly soaked into the ground was retrieved? Where is the evidence there were environmental hazzard crews on the ground to retrieve the oil?

FEMA Chapter 5 pg 15

"...the 20,000 gallons that were recovered..."

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

[if clicking on link doesn't work, copy and paste URL]

 

[Coritani]

Anything other than responding to the lack of damage and fire to the mechanical room.

Pot, Kettle, etc. I did notice that you didn't respond to all of my post.

One does not have to be an expert at anything to describe what they heard and saw.

True.

No.
It could have been steel breaking, as Gravy pointed out.
or
It could be a large explosion, or many small explosions in rapid succession.

Exactly! It is NOT evidence of a CD. There are many explanations for a 'clap of thunder' sound, which is quite ambiguous, and I'm not sure how you got 'bomb' from 'clap of thunder'.

 

[Christopher7]

Yes and this is not neccessarily where the fuel supply pipes were punctured. In fact if there was a fuel fire then it is more likely that the line was punctured some distance from the generator. The generator is in one room and the door of a generator room is a good seal. The fuel is never in the same room. The louvers open to the outside for the generator room. Its been a long time but it seems to me that the fuel came from another floor through pipes that ran up the elevator shaft or nearby then ran horizontally to the generator.

"The risers were in one of the two utility shafts in the west end of the building" [FEMA pg 14]

The SSB supply pipe ran behind a wall [on the 5th floor] that is on the north side of the mechanical room.

ie: a few feet north of the northernmost row of core columns.
[about 100' from the front of the building]*

this is the only fuel pipe in the east half of WTC 7

The 6,000 gallon tank is located between low rise elevators [next to column 70] between 2nd and 3rd floors .........lol


*WTC 7 140' deep, source?

 

[Gravy]

What makes you so sure i'm wrong ?

I know you're an admirer of Killtown, but are you now a student of his? You made up your mind about the "inside job" before you had even read the reports that are relevant to your arguments. Nothing will change your mind. Your claims are unfalsifiable.

In all of your arguments, you think that, based on a few photos or videos you've seen, you know more than the people who were right there when the events unfolded. You don't just think that: you insist on it, and you claim that these photos and videos contain all the proof you need of an inside job.

Well, what are you going to do about it?

Very much like another Chris who posts on this forum, you only focus on small perceived "anomalies" and are unable or unwilling to put them in context with all the evidence.

Also like the other Chris, when one argument of yours is blown out of the water, you desperately search for another "anomaly" and cling to it like death. You do this again and again and again.

Your deeply flawed methods have caused you to be wrong about every 9/11 issue. You are disconnected from reality. It's disturbing to see.

Do you think we should all track these people down and ask them ?

No, Chris, I think YOU should. Your claims, your burden of proof. I have no idea why you can't understand that.

You are comparing a crane outside with the collapse of the core of a building but you have demonstrated that there are two possible explanations.

You misunderstand my example. I showed you that structural steel can fail explosively under strain.

NIST pg 18

At 12:10 to 12:15 p.m.

No heavy dust or smoke on floor 8

Cubicle fire on west wall of floor 7

If the diesel engines are running, the louvers are open.

Smoke would be pouring out of the louver vents

Who claims that diesel engines were running at 12:10 to 12:15?