10 story hole in WTC 7

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http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/index.html (Twin Towers)

The tops fell at near the rate of free fall. The rates of fall indicate that nearly all resistance to the downward acceleration of the tops had been eliminated ahead of them. The forms of resistance, had the collapses been gravity-driven, would include: the destruction of the structural integrity of each story; the pulverization of the concrete in the floor slabs of each story, and other non-metallic objects; and the acceleration of the remains of each story encountered either outward or downward. There would have to be enough energy to overcome all of these forms of resistance and do it rapidly enough to keep up with the near free-fall acceleration of the top.
 
If you believe in the pancake theory, then it is up to you to come up with a calculation for how long it would take each floor to collapse according to that theory. But any number greater than .01 seconds will not fit the observed evidence of a CD.

I already told you how you ignored physics and used 110 seconds and you can not back it up with numbers. And now you want the building to fall in .01 seconds? Are you sure you have this right?

You failed to even come close to explaining. You just pulled the numbers out of the air.

You can not even tell anyone how much energy was stored in the WTC towers.

There is no evidence of CD; the time the buildings fell was due to gravity alone. Sorry you failed to get any training in physics but it is required to come close to the time that the towers fell. Simple momentum and modeling can be used and has been published in journals. Your google research has failed to help you. Try this report and prove it wrong before you continue to make up stories about 9/11 without facts.

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf

What is wrong with this paper?
 
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Does this picture not show the extend of the fires in WTC7?

(I have not followed the whole thread, so maybe this picture is well known. If so, sorry.)
That picture shows a lot of smoke from the west end of WTC 7 and WTC 6.

There were no raging fires on the eastern half of WTC 7 where the initiating event started the collapse.

See post #807 for details
 
That picture shows a lot of smoke from the west end of WTC 7 and WTC 6.

There were no raging fires on the eastern half of WTC 7 where the initiating event started the collapse.

See post #807 for details

No it shows smoke from raging fires; confirmed by many people you will ignore and thus fail to understand that WTC7 failed due to fire.

Proof is WTC7 fell with no explosives. No RDX sounds. No facts. The truth is, just fire fed with 20,000 gallons of fuel.

Lots of smoke means a lot of fire. (more stuff to debunk but it is a waste of time to even try since you now have a thread like the other chris's concrete core thread.)
 
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Here we go

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/wtc7/demolition.html

Observing the collapse of 47-story WTC 7 shows it to have all of the features of an implosion engineered by controlled demolition.

Not all of them. The explosions are lacking.

The collapse of the main structure commences suddenly (several seconds after the penthouse falls).

You know, things do tend to fall suddenly. Now, I don't want you to hurt yourself, but try this: Go to a gymn (they must have one in your school), find a barre, and hang in it by your hands (be sure it's not at a hight where falling will hurt you). Now, slowly relase your grip. At some point you fall. Will that be all of a sudden, or will you fall gradually?

Same with buildings. Buildings tend to stand till their structure cannot hold them up any longer. Then, suddenly, they fall.

The building sinks in a precisely vertical manner into its footprint.

This apparantly comes as a surprise to you, but things, and this absolutely includes buildings, when they fall, they fall, if at all possible, down. Straight down. The reason for this is that gravity works that way. Only if some sideways force, strong enough to divert the object, is in action, will it not fall straight down. A building like the WTC buildings weigh in excess of half a billion tons, so it will take a really big force to make it fall anything but straight down.

Puffs of dust emerge from the building's facade early in the event.

Despite its massive weight, the volume of a building is actually some 80% air. There is a good reason for this: We make bouldings in order to have things inside them. Things like offices, equipment, people. Now when a building collapses, these millions of gallons of air have to escape, fast! Air escaping fast is, ..... yes, a puff. The dust? Do I have to explain to you how a collapsing building can generate dust?

The collapse is total, producing a rubble pile only about three stories high.

Remember I just told you about the 80% air? That rubble pile is what's left once the air is taken away.

The main structure collapses totally in under 7 seconds, only about a second slower than it would take a brick dropped from the building's roof to reach the ground in a vacuum.

Yeah, more or less. You see, when half a billion tons start falling, it takes quite a bit to slow them down.

.....

You know, collapsing buildings, especially 7WTC, look a lot like controlled demolitions. You see, it is really only the events leading up to the collapse that are different.

In a CD, the supporting structure is weakened at strategic spots by cutting away parts of it and finally blowing parts of it away with explosives.

In a case like 7WTC, the supporting structures were weakened by debris from the towers hitting the building and from extensive fires raging unchallenged for many hours.

Those were the differences. From the fraction of a second when the supports gave way and gravity took over, there is really no difference: Bereft of support, the structure collapses under gravity.

Interestingly, conspiracy theorists are always concentrating on this last phase. Instead, you should be explaining where the enorouos column of smoke billowing from the building came from, if not from extensive fires, and you should be explaining how and when demolishing engineers managed to rig the building for demolition, without anybody noticing, and you should explain the absense of the characteristic and very noticeable sharp high-explosive blasts needed to blow out dozens of heavy steel supports.

Remember that any explanations involving only a few, strategically placed charges, or the use of thermite, are an admission that it only took a little extra nudge to make the building fall, in which case you admit the high probability that it could have fallen due to the damages it received.

Hans
 
If you believe in the pancake theory, then it is up to you to come up with a calculation for how long it would take each floor to collapse according to that theory. But any number greater than .01 seconds will not fit the observed evidence of a CD.

Respublicus: What is it that happens, in a CD, once the demolition charges have been detonated, and the building starts falling? Please describe what you think is happening.

Hans
 
No it shows smoke from raging fires; confirmed by many people you will ignore and thus fail to understand that WTC7 failed due to fire.
Read post #807
The fires were on the west end of WTC 7

Proof is WTC7 fell with no explosives. No RDX sounds.
If you disregard Daryl and Craig

No facts, just fire feed with 20,000 gallons of fuel.
The 20,000 gallons of fuel were recovered in the cleanup
[FEMA pg 15]
 
No. I dont believe there was any such gouge, there is no evidence nor any way it could have occurred.

Ridiculous. Images of WTC7 showing the hole were shown.

The collapse of the main structure commences suddenly (several seconds after the penthouse falls).

Define "suddenly"

The building sinks in a precisely vertical manner into its footprint.

Incorrect. It damaged nearby buildings.

Puffs of dust emerge from the building's facade early in the event.

Ah, yes. Let's blow up the TOP floors...

The collapse is total, producing a rubble pile only about three stories high.

So ?

The main structure collapses totally in under 7 seconds, only about a second slower than it would take a brick dropped from the building's roof to reach the ground in a vacuum.

Again... so ?

But any number greater than .01 seconds will not fit the observed evidence of a CD.

Gotta love circular reasoning.
 
The building sinks in a precisely vertical manner into its footprint.

I don't know how you can have such a strong opinion when it's such a trivial matter to prove this contention wrong :

30 W Broadway -
wtc7localdamage1.jpg


The Verizon building -

verizondamagedetail-2.jpg
 
A missile hit would be a better explanation.

Also, why not download the NOAA aerial photo of Ground Zero and take a look at the black missile crater and the burnt vehicles in the open parking area northwest of the WTC complex. This is where the second missile hit–passing by the Woolworth building parallel to Barclay Street and hitting in the open parking area. This is what you call EVIDENCE.


A sidewinder has 20 Kg of explosives, a Sparrow has 40 Kg of explosives and a Phoenix has 88 Kg of explosives in the warhead but that last one is simply not used in close quarter firings. (normally used for hitting aircraft that are 20 Km away) nor would anyone attempt to use them from a great distance on an aircraft that is flying at rooftop level of downtown Manhattan since the possibility of a hit is so very remote for either the heat seeking missiles or the radar lock type in such an enviroment.

So what you are saying is that this warhead entered the WTC 7 building and hit nothing else until it hit a structural column and then managed to hit it in such a way as to actually sever or severely damage that column.


Go back to reading fairy tales.
 
That picture shows a lot of smoke from the west end of WTC 7 and WTC 6.

There were no raging fires on the eastern half of WTC 7 where the initiating event started the collapse.

See post #807 for details

No Chris, this picture clearly shows a major fire at the eastern part of the building . Now you will state that it isn't near the initiating event. Fact is you simply do not know if it went in that far or not and NIST states that the initiation for the collapse could have been anywhere from floor 13 and down.

There are differing senarios two of which are; the initiation of collapse came from the mechanical floor where the deisel generator was, the collapse started at floor 12 where there was a large visible fire.

You still have offered nothing to back up the contention of the use of explosives other than that the building fell down and when a building is demolished using explosives it also falls down, and sometimes does so in a similar fashion as did WTC 7. That is all you have other than two guys who say it just had to be explosives that they heard.

You have NO physical evidence whereas NIST, in its preliminary report, concentrated on the physical evidence it had at the time and that was the multiple eyewitness reports and the video/photographic evidence.
 
No. I dont believe there was any such gouge, there is no evidence nor any way it could have occurred.

So you don't believe that the gouge in the SW corner occured either then? You state that there was no way a 10 storey gouge could occur when in fact a 10 storey gouge a few dozen feet to the west indeed did occur.
BT to C7. The center of WTC 7 is just as far from (not closer as I said before) WTC 1 as the SW corner of WTC 7 is.

still hanging in there Chris? They still haven't answered the first question?

In fact several have.

To my knowledge Chris has not answered the question in the other thread concerning evidence of explosive use. It hasn't been answered in this thread either other than to say that the building fell down and two guys state that they heard explosions(and that, dangnabit, it had to be explosions, just hadda be)

I got a reminder from Jref so I'm posting one post. Got no time for more.

That's too bad. I'll miss you.



Kader Toy Factory:
http://www.ilo.org/encyclopedia/?doc&nd=857100058&nh=0
The E-shaped building was a four-storey structure composed of concrete slabs supported by a structural steel frame.

Gee, steel farme, concrete flooring. Yep that's different than any WTC structure,,,,not.
4 storeys, now that's a difference but it also had no structural damage prior to the outbreak of the fire. The heat did indeed cause the collapse. So much for "no steel building collapsed due to fire".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCormick_Place
The gleaming white building burned down in 1967, a shocking event as it was largely steel and concrete and was thought to be fireproof. However, the exhibits at the time were highly flammable and there were inadequate sprinklers and hydrants, thus the fire spread quickly and destructively,

Again steel and concrete, no previous structural damage, and no effective fire fighting and it collapses due to heat. So much for "no steel building collapsed due to fire".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/6105942.stm
Major fire at toilet paper plant
"Intense heat buckled the steel girders holding the roof."
(Photo looks like a small, 4 storey concrete building, full of intense orange flames.)

Heat and fire but no previous structural damage and it collapses.So much for "no steel building collapsed due to fire".

All 3 are small buildings made of reinforced concrete with intense fire occupying the entire building interior. Not comparable at all to the WTC which were steel skyscrapers and fire only in a small part of the overall structure.
People survived in the Towers up to the moment of collapse – the insides of the buildings were largely at room temperature or thereabouts.
I

You are aware that concrete survives fire much better than steel aren't you? If the amount of concrete was a factor it should have kept the buildings upright longer.

In the toilet paper plant fire it says steel girders buckled. OK, but in the WTC, steel girders were chopped up in short lengths and some of them were ejected upwards and outwards into the air. Buckling by itself would only lead to the building sagging, not being pulverized!

(one tries not go all ad hom on your ass but you make it difficult)
The columns were broken into approx 30 foot long sections and by some happy coincidence that is also the length they were when trucked to the site to be erected. Seems longer sections just would not fit down Manahhtan streets very well. It is obvious then the columns often snapped at the connections between these sections.



More later when I have time
 
In the toilet paper plant fire it says steel girders buckled. OK, but in the WTC, steel girders were chopped up in short lengths and some of them were ejected upwards and outwards into the air. Buckling by itself would only lead to the building sagging, not being pulverized!

Odd that you would characterize the columns as being both "chopped up" and "pulverised" , care to make up your mind.
I would also like to see your calculations that illustrate that column buckling could only lead to the building sagging(or the calculations of someone who has lead you to this conclusion) and I'd also like your definition of what a 'sagging' building is.

Some 9/11 Lyers have been saying there were no explosions because they are not heard by the videos broadcast by the corporate controlled media. Note that the media are owned by corporations (6 companies control 96% of the media – see http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/front.shtml#chart ) and they are controlled by the super-rich – the same powerful few who control the CFR, CIA, and the war machine. Unfortunately, we have to come to grips with the fact that this is a big conspiracy coming from the top of our society, from the Owners, and the top is totally corrupt – the fish stinks from the head. In other words, the sounds of explosions could easily have been muffled out for TV viewers .

Distortion in the media for propaganda purposes is the rule, objectivity is the exception or exists only in theory.

Paranoid ramblings do not a vast, complicated, complex and unrequired plot to kill 3000 Americans, make.

However, there are videos of fireman describing the explosion (bam, bam, bam – a floor at a time, you know the one) and I recently was pointed to this short one, only 17 seconds, where you can clearly hear a big explosion. The camera goes off looking for the source of the sound, pointing upwards, apparently up into the towers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcRs1fv8i3I#C40Hv04n8GU
you can very clearly hear a big explosion coming apparently from the towers and a policeman saying, "sounds like an explosion, I know" meaning it was not the first time he is hearing this.

Once AGAIN, when a building is collapsing and large , heavy pieces of steel and concrete are slamming against each other what sound is it supposed to make, a whisper, a whine, a whistle or a boom?

I just watched a doc about the collapse of the largest crane in North America , known as "Big Blue". It broke apart in Milwaukee. The witnesses state that there was the sound of an "explosion" followed by a roar like a jet taking off. There was no explosion, there was no jet. The 'explosion' was the large bolt known as the kingpin snapping and the roar was the steelwork ripping apart as the crane and the 450 ton piece it was lifting slamming into the partially completed stadium.

The essence of it is that the collapses of WTC 1, 2 and 7 not only look like controlled demolitions, they look ONLY like CD’s. This is the only known phenomenon that even closely resembles what we saw on 9/11, and they fit all the characteristics, such as free fall speed, which clearly is only possible if the supporting columns are blown out.

Actually 'free fall' is only possible if all supports on ALL FLOORS are simultaneously blown out.(do the math or have your 12th grade physics teacher do it for you) that is certainly not in evidence here. In fact it was not free fall in any building and especially not in the building for which this thread is concerned, WTC 7, which started coming apart at least 10 seconds before the north wall collapses.

This is why I say it is too obvious and I don’t have patience to discuss this with people who to all appearences are either totally brainwashed, or maybe even being paid to cover up the conspiracy this way – that is with case-hardened 9/11 Lyers.


You don't even have the patience to do any math or learn any physics why should you bother to actually attempt to back up far fetched assertions.
 
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