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Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

arthwollipot said:
Would you rather they sent people into orbit without testing their systems first?

Let's just slap a rocket together and strap someone to the top. Hey, it works in Kerbal, what could go wrong?
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The third flight of the Saturn V had people on board. If you design a rocket properly instead of just "slapping it together", you make better progress.
 
Another investigation into Tesla's "self driving" capability.

arstechnica.com

Tesla Summon under federal safety investigation

Following reports of at least 16 crashes, NHTSA has opened a safety investigation into the Tesla Summon system.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com

A couple of notes. It seems like the "come to me in the parking lot" feature used to be called "smart summon" but the improved version is called "actually smart summon". I believe the next version will be called "won't get fooled again smart summon".

Also it seems like the method of control will always be subject to latency issues. Commands from your mobile phone have to go to Tesla's servers and then back to the car. I can't see how this would ever be safe - unless there is some way for the phone t talk directly to the car.
 
arthwollipot said:
Would you rather they sent people into orbit without testing their systems first?

Let's just slap a rocket together and strap someone to the top. Hey, it works in Kerbal, what could go wrong?
Click to expand...

Sounds nuts, but that's what NASA did with the Shuttle. First crewed launch with no test flight beforehand. And first human launch with solid fuel rockets as well.

I'm not saying the situations are comparable, just that your scenario has indeed happened IRL. And yes I know they tested the hell of all the components they could.
 
Dread Pirate Roberts said:
Sounds nuts, but that's what NASA did with the Shuttle. First crewed launch with no test flight beforehand. And first human launch with solid fuel rockets as well.

I'm not saying the situations are comparable, just that your scenario has indeed happened IRL. And yes I know they tested the hell of all the components they could.
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And as we all know, the Shuttles always performed flawlessly.
 
arthwollipot said:
And proper design requires adequate testing of systems.
Click to expand...
There is such a thing as engineering and a record of knowledge.

Before a completely new large jet takes to the air they already have a good idea of what will happen.

A reusable space reentry vehicle is an order of magnitude more complex but the first shuttle flight worked. It was probably over engineered for safety.
Musk needs to get away with the minimum of everything to succeed with his vision. That's a whole new order of magnitude of difficulty. Trying random ◊◊◊◊ is like using a naive sort in a computer program. It will get there, eventually. Musk doesn't have that much time.
 
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a_unique_person said:
There is such a thing as engineering and a record of knowledge.

Before a completely new large jet takes to the air they already have a good idea of what will happen.

A reusable space reentry vehicle is an order of magnitude more complex but the first shuttle flight worked. It was probably over engineered for safety.
Musk needs to get away with the minimum of everything to succeed with his vision. That's a whole new order of magnitude of difficulty. Trying random ◊◊◊◊ is like using a naive sort in a computer program. It will get there, eventually. Musk doesn't have that much time.
Click to expand...
I think SpaceX has plenty of time.

Unless you're holding the company to Apollo timelines without Apollo funding, urgency, and public enthusiasm. Then of course SpaceX has no time at all. But that's more of a you problem than a SpaceX problem.
 
I believe that AUP was referring to not much time according to the stated schedules.

But those can be pushed back, pretty much indefinitely. Nothing is urgent here. We're not going to be losing anything by missing those deadlines.
 
i don't think he gets to repeatedly promise to do things he can't do and when he fails to meet goals in his other business endeavors, many of which he's already barely involved with like space x, be free from criticism indefinitely. even if you don't agree with that, at least it's fair to say that every missed deadline things get a little less impressive
 
theprestige said:
I think SpaceX has plenty of time.

Unless you're holding the company to Apollo timelines without Apollo funding, urgency, and public enthusiasm. Then of course SpaceX has no time at all. But that's more of a you problem than a SpaceX problem.
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They have that NASA contract for a moon landing that was awarded without an open tender. Then the woman who awarded the contract quit NASA and joined SpaceX.
 
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dirtywick said:
i don't think he gets to repeatedly promise to do things he can't do and when he fails to meet goals in his other business endeavors, many of which he's already barely involved with like space x, be free from criticism indefinitely.
Click to expand...
I'd say that the evidence suggests that he gets to do exactly that.
dirtywick said:
even if you don't agree with that, at least it's fair to say that every missed deadline things get a little less impressive
Click to expand...
That's a fair statement.
 
dirtywick said:
fortune.com

Tesla board that gave itself nearly $1 billion in excess compensation must now return money

Tesla directors settled a nearly five-year-long legal dispute that represents the latest critique of the board’s lax governance under Robyn Denholm.
fortune.com fortune.com

pretty major windfall for tesla as their board must return a billion dollars in compensation it gave itself. more signs of a healthy company running everything above board
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As ever one rule for the rich and powerful "..Numerous past and present nonexecutive directors agreed to return around $920 million". and a different one for the rest. Can a shoplifter simply "agree to return" the $15 item? The burglar agree to return the cash they stole?
 
Darat said:
As ever one rule for the rich and powerful "..Numerous past and present nonexecutive directors agreed to return around $920 million". and a different one for the rest. Can a shoplifter simply "agree to return" the $15 item? The burglar agree to return the cash they stole?
Click to expand...

That depends, did they award those items to themselves? For some reason (the first part of your post specifically) that seems to be a factor.
 
jadebox said:
The last three launches reached a high enough speed and altitude to reach orbit.
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No they got to the height of LEO. To properly reach orbit, you have to demonstrate the ability to enter a stable orbital flight path. None of the test flights managed to come close, none of them were even slated to try.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
No they got to the height of LEO. To properly reach orbit, you have to demonstrate the ability to enter a stable orbital flight path. None of the test flights managed to come close, none of them were even slated to try.
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They were intentionally launched into a transatmospheric orbit - an orbit which intersects with the atmosphere. If they had circularized the orbit, the later flights could have completely orbited the Earth.
 
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jadebox said:
They were intentionally launched into a transatmospheric orbit - an orbit which intersects with the atmosphere. If they had circularized the orbit, the later flights could have completely orbited the Earth.
Click to expand...
They've no capacity to create a safe orbit. Any idiot, even Galaxy Brain, can propel a rocket to orbital height with sufficient fuel, but making a rocket orbit is harder.
 
GraculusTheGreenBird said:
Arch liar and champion bellend Musk is lying about being one of the top gamers in the world.
Lots of YouTube action on the subject. Here's a good breakdown Elon Musk is Lying About Being Good at Video Games

Tell me again why we should give this utter liar and fraudster the benefit of the doubt regarding anything he says, regarding any subject in any industry?
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I sure hope that Musk isn't playing video games all day, because he has more important stuff to do. Nevertheless, the claim that he cheated by getting someone else to play under his name is not proven.

The saddest part is that apparently there are people who spend every waking moment playing video games. In comparison my own abilities are pretty poor. I once spent 5 hours nonstop trying to get past a bit in Tomb Raider, but never managed to finish the game (or any others in the series).

Back in the 80's and 90's when I was into home computers, cheating was standard practice. Most people didn't even buy the games, they got 'cracked' copies with 'trainers' that gave you invincibility, infinite bullets, start at any level etc. These were often called 'pokes', referring to the BASIC command used to modify the program, and they were commonly published in magazines for 'honest' people to apply to their original games. This was before the internet so gamers would send letters to the magazine publishers with the high scores they purportedly got. Sometimes you could tell it was fake because the game never gave that score, but otherwise you just had to trust them. If they were lying it wasn't a big deal for me, after all it was just a game - nothing important.
 
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Roger Ramjets said:
I sure hope that Musk isn't playing video games all day, because he has more important stuff to do. Nevertheless, the claim that he cheated by getting someone else to play under his name is not proven.

The saddest part is that apparently there are people who spend every waking moment playing video games. In comparison my own abilities are pretty poor. I once spent 5 hours nonstop trying to get past a bit in Tomb Raider, but never managed to finish the game (or any others in the series).

Back in the 80's and 90's when I was into home computers, cheating was standard practice. Most people didn't even buy the games, they got 'cracked' copies with 'trainers' that gave you invincibility, infinite bullets, start at any level etc. These were often called 'pokes', referring to the BASIC command used to modify the program, and they were commonly published in magazines for 'honest' people to apply to their original games. This was before the internet so gamers would send letters to the magazine publishers with the high scores they purportedly got. Sometimes you could tell it was fake because the game never gave that score, but otherwise you just had to trust them. If they were lying it wasn't a big deal for me, after all it was just a game - nothing important.
Click to expand...
Seems like the actual experts in this game, who know way more about it than you and I, are completely convinced he has cheated. To them, it is blatantly obvious.

He has no clue what he is doing, displays fundamental misunderstandings of the game mechanics, the value of dropped loot, and his character, and doesn't use or even apparently understand the game terminology. He has no idea of the capabilities of the ridiculously high level items his character already has, and thinks they are average because they are lower in numerical level than his character level, despite them being some of the most powerful items available. He literally doesn't understand what his character has. Because someone else made it for him.

He displays all the characteristics of someone who is just dropped in at a super high level, then does his usual ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ to try to make it sounds like he knows what he is doing. But, to people who do actually know what they are doing, his ignorance is clear.

He's a cheat, a liar and a fraud. But you don't care, because its just a game, nothing important.
But, he is still a cheat, a liar and a fraud, that is his character, through and through. And it applies to everything he does, every pronouncement he makes in whatever industry he touches. That is why he never ends up doing what he promises, because his promises are worthless. Because, he is a cheat, a liar and a fraud.

You cannot trust a single thing that Twat-0-Nine-Tales says, on any subject whatsoever.
 
i think often the defenses of musk are so flimsy that they may appear to be lies. but, i hope you're not lying. nothing worse than a liar, it's why musk is such garbage.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
I sure hope that Musk isn't playing video games all day, because he has more important stuff to do. Nevertheless, the claim that he cheated by getting someone else to play under his name is not proven.
Click to expand...
don't worry - he is spending just as much time tweeting and talking to fascists.

He is clearly not doing any actual work, but then he never has.
 
He doesn't play all day, he pays someone to do it for him.

Good roundup from Penguinz0

 
dirtywick said:
i think often the defenses of musk are so flimsy that they may appear to be lies. but, i hope you're not lying. nothing worse than a liar, it's why musk is such garbage.
Click to expand...
Gulliver Foyle's claim is that SpaceX is incapable of putting things in orbit. And he's accusing anyone who dissents from that claim of lying. Why are you taking Gulliver Foyle's side in this particular dispute?

Because this really seems like an attack on Musk that is so flimsy it appears to be a lie. But here you are, running interference for it. Why?
 
theprestige said:
I think SpaceX has plenty of time.

Unless you're holding the company to Apollo timelines without Apollo funding, urgency, and public enthusiasm. Then of course SpaceX has no time at all. But that's more of a you problem than a SpaceX problem.
Click to expand...
What about holding them to Artemis time lines? How's that going for them?
 
Roger Ramjets said:
I sure hope that Musk isn't playing video games all day, because he has more important stuff to do. Nevertheless, the claim that he cheated by getting someone else to play under his name is not proven.
Click to expand...
It pretty much is proven.

www.forbes.com

‘Path Of Exile 2’ Fans Say Elon Musk’s Characters Are Clearly Being Boosted

Elon Musk supposedly has god-tier, ultra-geared, endgame-stomping characters in Path of Exile 2. Except the community and its pros say, no, he doesn’t.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Roger Ramjets said:
The saddest part is that apparently there are people who spend every waking moment playing video games. In comparison my own abilities are pretty poor. I once spent 5 hours nonstop trying to get past a bit in Tomb Raider, but never managed to finish the game (or any others in the series).
Click to expand...

This is the puzzling thing. Nobody would think the worse of Elon Musk if he just played the games casually or not at all. Whether you think he is cheating or not, it isn't a good look for a CEO of two multi-billion dollar companies.

Roger Ramjets said:
Back in the 80's and 90's when I was into home computers, cheating was standard practice. Most people didn't even buy the games, they got 'cracked' copies with 'trainers' that gave you invincibility, infinite bullets, start at any level etc. These were often called 'pokes', referring to the BASIC command used to modify the program, and they were commonly published in magazines for 'honest' people to apply to their original games. This was before the internet so gamers would send letters to the magazine publishers with the high scores they purportedly got. Sometimes you could tell it was fake because the game never gave that score, but otherwise you just had to trust them. If they were lying it wasn't a big deal for me, after all it was just a game - nothing important.
Click to expand...
It seems to be important to Elon Musk.
 
It is not just not a good look, it is a very bad look for a CEO to be a really good player in a game that is a massive time sink - in a sane world that is.
 
theprestige said:
Gulliver Foyle's claim is that SpaceX is incapable of putting things in orbit. And he's accusing anyone who dissents from that claim of lying. Why are you taking Gulliver Foyle's side in this particular dispute?

Because this really seems like an attack on Musk that is so flimsy it appears to be a lie. But here you are, running interference for it. Why?
Click to expand...
It's fairly obvious from the context that GF is talking about Starship specifically, not SpaceX generally.
 
The video game stuff is just an update to the gentlemen vs players thing from the 19th century. A gentleman may be presumed to be effortlessly good at everything, as he is of course innately superior.
 
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