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[Continuation] Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part V

Guss said:
Have you ever heard of cowpox?
I rest.
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Stop replying with one-liners like you’re going win the clever comebacks award on Twitter.

Just say what you mean and back it up. Right now you’re rambling more than a maniac’s screed stapled to a telephone pole in the 70s.

Use. Your. Words!
 
Axxman300 said:
The thing about herd immunity is that in real life it comes from the few survivors of the larger herds that were killed off by the virus, getting together to form a new herd. And it only makes them immune from that one virus, and not the next one wherein the process repeats itself.

I'm not sure how this is still an argument.
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That is what's so hard to understand for the 'virus optimists': No law of natural evolution makes a virus mild. That measles, for instance, doesn't kill many people nowadays, not even many unvaccinated, isn't because it evolved to become mild. It's because it killed enough of the most susceptible people and left only those alive to procreate who had a level of natural immunity. When it arrived in isolated places like Fiji, Samoa and Tonga, it turned out not to be 'mild' at all: Fiji's darkest hour - an account of the measles epidemic of 1875

The story of the myxoma virus is also an eye-opener in this respect: Think All Viruses Get Milder With Time? Not This Rabbit-Killer (NYT, June 20, 2022)
 
Guss said:
It's not gonna happen if you jabbed, the unvaxxed with natural immunity are never hospitalized or die of any of the variants.
It is truly a pandemic of the jabbed.
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Guss may not have noticed, but people died in droves in 2020 - before anyone was jabbed. And the unjabbed continued to die after the arrival of the vaccines.
Deaths of anti-vaccine advocates from COVID-19 (Wikipedia)

The paragraphs about Reporting of deathbed conversions and Notable instances are particularly harrowing.

As Guss says:
Guss said:
The evidence is right before your eyes, but you just can't see it, at least for now.
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dann said:
Guss may not have noticed, but people died in droves in 2020 - before anyone was jabbed.
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I think Guss is claiming that no-one who is unvaccinated and has had Covid at least once already (and hence gained 'natural immunity') has subsequently been hospitalised or died if they catch it again.

Obviously antibodies, whether acquired via vaccination or by surviving catching the disease, greatly reduce your chances of being hospitalised or dying every time you catch it thereafter. The difference is that with vaccination, 'every time' also includes the first time, which is when your chances of severe illness are the greatest. Antibodies acquired by infection only reduce severity from the second time you catch it.

Also, of course, with a rapidly mutating virus like Covid the protection offered by antibodies to a previous variant gradually reduces. Boosters are a much better way to get the latest antibodies than catching the disease again and again, even if those later infections aren't particularly severe.
 
Here on the California coast we had a dozen Native Tribes who'd lived here for a long time without problems until the Spanish arrived. Sure, the Spanish physically killed a lot of them through forced labor, and straight-up murder, but most of our Native peoples died from diseases the Spanish brought with them. Many tribe went extinct, for lack of a more polite word.

I find it funny that being an anti-vaxxer is a privilege afforded them by the vaccinated.
 
Axxman300 said:
The thing about herd immunity is that in real life it comes from the few survivors of the larger herds that were killed off by the virus
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Not really. It comes entirely from the concept of vaccinating large numbers of members of a herd so there's in effect a "wall" of immunity from infection that stops an introduced virus spreading and infecting the weaker members.

The problem with it as a strategy or goal (or whatever you want to call it) during this pandemic is that -

(a) the herd is planet sized. Take the "herd immunity" icon of Sweden. More than a million people a month travel over the bridge between Sweden and Denmark. Sweden is not a herd. You need to fence off your herd - which, ironically, was something Sweden was actively against (ie border controls)

(b) immunity doesn't last for very long for any coronavirus. So even if you miraculously managed to make everyone immune to infection at the same time, within a few months your "immunity wall" has holes all over it. Easy for a virus to get introduced and take hold.

Over the past 4 years, "herd immunity" has been completely redefined to now mean "population immunity" at such a widespread level where the virus struggles to find new hosts, so people - including some supposed "experts" - are now saying that when an infectious wave starts to wane - because so many people have been infected - that this is a result of herd immunity. As far as I can tell from extensive literature search, prior to the pandemic the term had never been used in this way.

In this usage there is, of course zero protection of the vulnerable (or others) from a new virus (or in the case of Covid, another immune-escaped variant) taking hold in a population, which was the original raison d'être of herd immunity.
 
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icerat said:
Not really. It comes entirely from the concept of vaccinating large numbers of members of a herd so there's in effect a "wall" of immunity from infection that stops an introduced virus spreading and infecting the weaker members.

The problem with it as a strategy or goal (or whatever you want to call it) during this pandemic is that -

(a) the herd is planet sized. Take the "herd immunity" icon of Sweden. More than a million people a month travel over the bridge between Sweden and Denmark. Sweden is not a herd. You need to fence off your herd - which, ironically, was something Sweden was actively against (ie border controls)

(b) immunity doesn't last for very long for any coronavirus. So even if you miraculously managed to make everyone immune to infection at the same time, within a few months your "immunity wall" has holes all over it. Easy for a virus to get introduced and take hold.

Over the past 4 years, "herd immunity" has been completely redefined to now mean "population immunity" at such a widespread level where the virus struggles to find new hosts, so people - including some supposed "experts" - are now saying that when an infectious wave starts to wane - because so many people have been infected - that this is a result of herd immunity. As far as I can tell from extensive literature search, prior to the pandemic the term had never been used in this way.

In this usage there is, of course zero protection of the vulnerable (or others) from a new virus (or in the case of Covid, another immune-escaped variant) taking hold in a population, which was the original raison d'être of herd immunity.
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As I understand the term, there is a critical percentage beyond which an epidemic becomes unlikely because the chances of one unvaccinated and infected individual coming into contact with another unvaccinated are reduced. For example, for measles, that percentage is ~95%.
 
smartcooky said:
As I understand the term, there is a critical percentage beyond which an epidemic becomes unlikely because the chances of one unvaccinated and infected individual coming into contact with another unvaccinated are reduced. For example, for measles, that percentage is ~95%.
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Yes. The problem is that now it's being used for when an epidemic is in progress but so many people have been infected that new infections start to decrease, ie a wave begins to wane.

So in Sweden, pretty much every time there's a new wave, once it starts to abate the authorities are "we've reached herd immunity".

This new usage has been adopted by the #letitrip crowd around the world.
 
Just in case any of the women at ISF have been procrastinating and didn't get around to getting the most recent booster shot: It protects you from more than just COVID-19.
This one's for you! :)
I don’t sleep with vaccinated women
(Andrew) Tate News (X, Jan 7, 2024)
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Pixel42 said:
I think Guss is claiming that no-one who is unvaccinated and has had Covid at least once already (and hence gained 'natural immunity') has subsequently been hospitalised or died if they catch it again.
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Well Guss is wrong. I was hospitalised with my second infection.
 
Another 'died suddenly' case:
Alec Musser death: All My Children and Grown Ups actor dies, as Adam Sandler pays tribute (Independent, Jan 14, 2024)

On X today, a Danish conspiracy nut posted a link to the article with the words:
50 year old former fitness model. Looked healthy to me 🤔
Alec Musser dies suddenly
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However, Fox News reported this:
Musser had been suffering from ‘a severe case of Covid
‘All My Children’ actor Alec Musser dead at 50, fiancée suspects COVID contributed (Jan 14, 2023)
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Too bad the antivaxxers missed this part of the story.
I assume the story about a 50 year old former fitness model dying of/with(?) C19 won't be popular among minimizers who like to describe COVID-19 deaths as dry tinder or as people already wearing toe tags.

Danish version.
 
suicide, not Covid-19

There are reports in major news outlets that Mr. Musser died by suicide. It is possible that Covid-19 caused a physical or mental decline.
 
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Those antivaxxers ...
Former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro's personal vaccination records were falsified, according to bombshell investigation carried out by the country's current comptroller general.
Records showed he received a COVID-19 immunization in Sao Paulo in July 2021, Reuters reported - though a plethora of evidence was uncovered to show that the politician's card had likely been faked.
Jair Bolsonaro's Vaccination Records Were Falsified, Probe Finds (Daily Beast, Jan 18, 2024)
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When I saw the headline I thought that he had claimed not to be vaccinated when he actually was, but it appears to be the other way round.
 
Tennessee lawmakers fear lettuce with vaccines.
A series of mysterious lights appeared in the sky over LA last night, the aftershocks of Easter are still being felt by an unhappy pet owner in Oklahoma, Trump managed to post a $175 million bond courtesy of the Knight Specialty Insurance Company, he called the charges in his latest New York fraud case “a fabricated election interference con job,” the judge in the Stormy Daniels hush money case expanded the gag order he put in place, Donald Trump Jr is all worked up about the fact that Transgender Day of Visibility happened to fall on Easter this year, RFK Jr commented on his family members speaking out against him, lawmakers in Tennessee have been working hard to keep vaccines out of their lettuce, and Guillermo sits down with young folks in the first-ever installment of Guillermo’s Teen Corner.
Trump Gets a $175 Million Loan, RFK Jr’s Family Speaks Out Against Him & Guillermo Talks to Teens (Jimmy Kimmel Live on YouTube, April 3, 2024)
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What is wrong with people?

I just saw "How did the Anti-vax Community Fare in PNG?" by Vejon Health. tBasically looked at mortality rates through the pandemic and noted there was no increase. Attributes this to the extremely low vax rate in PNG. They are a big vax conspiracy outlet. Of the hundred or so comments, none apparently bothered to check out the link.

Opened up the provided link the video referenced. There was a warning in it that the mortality numbers after 2019 were estimates:

NOTE: All death rate data after 2019 are United Nations projections and therefore DO NOT include any impacts from COVID-19.
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Pretty pathetic.

Links to the video and PNG mortality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEwUtzB7uL8
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/PNG/papua-new-guinea/death-rate
 
This is the first time I hear about AVPS!
Steve Kirsch is a well-known Covid minimizer and antivaxxer:
Paul Bhola, 45, from San Diego has lost 12 friends unexpectedly since the Covid vaccines rolled out. Before that, he just had one friend die in a car accident. The number of friends he lost from the Covid virus: 0.
Steve Kirsch (X, May 5, 2024)
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This sounds rather suspicious. Have the police investigated him?
Dr Susan Oliver (PhD) (X, May 6, 2024)
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Sounds like a raging case of AVPS to me. He should get that checked.
Anti Vaxxer Proximity Syndrome (AVPS)
* A phenomon where several (if not every single vaccinated person they know) has suffered horrific, life-changing side effects or died as a result of taking a Covid19 vaccine.
* Bonus points awarded if the phrase 'they were fit and healthy' is thrown in. Don't bother asking for proof or confirmation that it was anything to do with the vaccine, or even the most obvious cause (a covid infection) that has a way higher chance of long-lasting health problems.
* AVPS is a serious problem amongst antivaxxers, care should be taken when befriending an antivaxxer as the common denominator is the antivaxxer.
* Despite the fact that mRNA is naturally found in every cell of your body, the fact that the covid vaccines have been broken down by your body within hours and absolutely no medication on this planet is safe for 100% of people, antivaxxers will still link literally ANY bad thing to the vaccines.
(In all seriousness, adverse reactions can happen with ANY medication. The chances of this happening are VERY rare. Any genuine concerns should be raised with a qualified medical practitioner/your GP.)
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Reaiity Bytes (X, May 6, 2024)
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Disinformation works!

Axios:
Growing numbers of Americans are buying into misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines, according to a new national survey, with more than one in five believing it's safer to get the virus than to get a shot.
Why it matters: Belief in misconceptions is stoking vaccine hesitancy with the nation facing a summer surge of infections, more COVID-related hospitalizations, and updated shots now reaching pharmacy shelves.
The big picture: The findings from the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center are further evidence of how intense backlash to the government's at times muddled COVID response eroded trust in public health, jeopardizing preparedness efforts to address future crises.
* The proliferation of vaccine misinformation on social media has also outpaced efforts to counter it, Columbia University researchers found earlier this year.
What they found: 28% of respondents to Annenberg's survey incorrectly believe that COVID-19 vaccines have been responsible for thousands of deaths, up from 22% in June 2021. The percentage who know this is false declined to 55% from 66%.
* 22% believe the false idea that it's safer to get a COVID infection than to get the vaccine, up from 10% in April 2021, months after the shots were rolled out.
More Americans embrace COVID vax untruths: Poll (Axios, Aug 29, 2024)
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We know how the lies about harmful vaccines and beneficial infections have also been promoted on this forum.
 
'Died Suddenly'

Dr. Susan Oliver (and her dog Cindy) take on a nutritionist and his bloody awful 'Died Suddenly' video:
Famous influencers are dropping like flies: Why?
He does his very best, which isn't much, to make the deaths appear to be mysterious.

Susan Oliver explains why they're not at all mysterious:
A few people have asked me to debunk a video from a guy called Elliot Overton from the EONutrition channel entitled Famous influencers are dropping like flies: Why?
It's only a short video- just over 6 1/2 minutes long, but Mr Overton manages to jam a lot of bollocks into that short time. He uses the tried and trusted technique of pointing to people who have sadly passed away and suggesting without any evidence that their deaths were caused by you know what.
Dr Susan Oliver and Cindy the dog show that all evidence he presents is bollocks.
Fact Check: Are famous influencers dropping like flies? (Back to the Science with Dr. Susan Oliver on YouTube, Sep 3, 2024)
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Here's some real CT stuff

IJVTPR "International Journal of vaccine Theory, practice, and research"
https://mail.ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/40

Health versus Disorder, Disease, and Death: Unvaccinated Persons Are Incommensurably Healthier than Vaccinated

Results from the 2019/2020 nationwide Control Group Survey of Unvaccinated Americans (CGS) show that those refusing vaccines are thriving while those accepting them are being injured and met with a multiplicity of grave injuries as well as sudden unexpected death. This survey quantified the long-term health risks of total vaccine avoidance against the health outcomes observed in the 99.74% vaccine-exposed American population. Based upon the sample sizes for the controls vs. the exposed population, the p-values and odds ratios evidence the astronomical odds against the innocence of vaccines as the actual cause of well over 90% of the disabling and life-threatening chronic conditions suffered by Americans.
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Looks like a new "Journal"
Have fun.
 
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Looks like the editor is one John Oller. I wonder if he's related to John W. Oller, Jr. of Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis?
 
KDLarsen said:
Looks like the editor is one John Oller. I wonder if he's related to John W. Oller, Jr. of Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis?
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More than related.

https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/about/editorialTeam
John W. Oller, Jr., PhD in General Linguistics from the University of Rochester in New York, is Professor Emeritus, Department of Linguistics, University of New Mexico in Albuquerque.
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And yes, he is quite the Bible thumper.

https://www.icr.org/article/mere-consistency-signs-creation
The sciences (including mathematics itself) give no answer to this question, but the Bible points to One who cannot lie (Numbers 23:19; Titus 1:2)—the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). If God exists, He is the source of all perfections (James 1:17). In the 19th century, Charles S. Peirce (1839-1914) showed the way toward a mathematical theory of signs grounded in mere consistency and nothing else.
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John Campbell embraces 'study' about 'nanostructures' in vaccines - and regrets it

https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/102
Several friends were uncomfortable with this paper on nanostructures. I have therefore deleted my video report on this paper until it’s scientific validity, or otherwise, is clarified. It is good that we have such a global community of expertise to advise in near real time.
John Campbell (X, Sep 8, 2024)
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Real-Time Self-Assembly of Stereomicroscopically Visible Artificial Constructions in Incubated Specimens of mRNA Products Mainly from Pfizer and Moderna: A Comprehensive Longitudinal Study
https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/102

International Journal of Vaccine Theory, Practice, and Research
https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/index

Full version of the journal
Vol. 3 No. 2 (2024): Injuries, Causes, and Treatments, Part 2
https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/issue/view/6
John Campbell (X, Sep 8, 2024)
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His nemesis, Susan Oliver (and Cindy), is onto him:
John Campbell’s Nanotech video was so ridiculous that his antivaxx friends had to have a quiet word with him. Laugh along with Cindy and me and find out what John doesn’t know about nanotechnology.
Antivaxxers ask John Campbell to stop embarrassing them (Back to the Science on YouTube, Sep 11, 2024 - 20:07 min.)

Dr Susan Oliver (PhD) (X, Sep 11, 2024)
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An antivax study may be peer-reviewed, but unfortunately the peers of antivaxxers are antivaxxer as is the whole International Journal of Vaccine Theory, Practice, and Research.
 
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Ladapo is true to form

"In updated guidance for health care providers released Thursday, the Florida Health Department and state Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo questioned the safety and effectiveness of the mRNA Covid vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, including for older adults and people with underlying health problems. “Any provider concerned about the health risks associated with Covid-19 for patients over the age of 65 or with underlying health conditions should prioritize patient access to non-mRNA Covid-19 vaccines and treatment,” according to the state guidance." NBC News.

"Along with a lengthy list of concerns over the effectiveness and health risks of mRNA vaccines and boosters, the FDOH statement warned that "this booster does not protect against the currently dominant strain, accounting for approximately 37% of infections in the United States" and said that the vaccine was approved without specific trials in humans." Tallahassee Democrat.

I shouldn't be surprised, but I am disappointed.
 
Florida misinformation

"In what has become a pattern of spreading vaccine misinformation, the Florida health department is telling older Floridians and others at highest risk from COVID-19 to avoid most booster shots, saying they are potentially dangerous...The bulletin makes a number of false or unproven claims about the efficacy and safety of mRNA-based COVID vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna, including that they could threaten "the integrity of the human genome." Florida's guidance generally regurgitates ideas from anti-vaccine websites, said John Moore, PhD, a professor of microbiology at Weill Cornell Medicine in New York City...Ladapo's vaccine statement "aligns with Project 2025," Offit said, referring to the conservative Heritage Foundation policy blueprint." MedPageToday. How Dr. Ladapo made it through medical school is a mystery.
 
I'm increasingly horrified by how dysfunctional the US has grown as a nation.
(Sorry about stating the obvious)
 
Wow. Just wow. According to some, anti-vaxxers have the blood of millions of Covid vaccine compliant people on their hands. Not for not being vaccinated or for urging others not to get vaccinated, oh no. It's for not trying hard enough to convince them not to get vaccinated.

They [the unvaccinated] knew all of [the health risks and complications of the vaccines], but instead of warning us, the unvaccinated chose to remain silent. They chose to look the other way and not speak out about the potential dangers of vaccines. They let millions of good folks who did the right thing (at the time) fall to death and disease, and many antivaxxers even gloated online about how their coin flip had been the right bet. The more diabolical even urged folks they disagree with to “get boosted.”

It has become all too clear. The silence of the unvaccinated was a dangerous, sociopathic, and irresponsible decision that has had serious consequences for those of us who received the vaccinations.
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Full circle around a Mobius loop. It's vax-ception.

Rest assured, this comes across as every bit as bizarre in the alternative world in which the unvaccinated are the heroic resistance to the deadly vaccines. After all, whether you think it was justified or not, it's objective fact that anti-Covid-vax views were censored from social media and publicly vilified.

ETA: Looking into the comments, it appears the article dates back to at least January of 2023. Not exactly breaking news.
 
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Myriad said:
Wow. Just wow. According to some, anti-vaxxers have the blood of millions of Covid vaccine compliant people on their hands. Not for not being vaccinated or for urging others not to get vaccinated, oh no. It's for not trying hard enough to convince them not to get vaccinated.
SNIP
ETA: Looking into the comments, it appears the article dates back to at least January of 2023. Not exactly breaking news.
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"Shalawam! 👋 AFRU is a Black-led and Black-owned startup that combines art and fashion with lifestyle commentary to create a strong social justice brand that is relevant to folks from all walks of life." There is still time to buy some of their swag.
 
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Well, they'll all get their collective Presidential Freedom Medal certificates once RFK Jr. gets settled into his new office. 😡
 
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