Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[MaGZ]

Totally called what? Where? Did you even read that whole post? It's kind of long.



It's inherently not a good thing. Possibly blowing up hundreds of your own citizens just to blame a foreign enemy doesn't cut it?

How about this: what if I told you I suspect Putin was behind the mystery sniper in the hotel? Not to stop the protests, but to egg them on by killing a few innocents, provoking the rest to overthrow Yanukovych. Perhaps the idea would be he could then cite the "Nazi" takeover as some "emergency" and use it as an excuse to launch a full invasion and annexation of Ukraine. Would that make you happy, or more curious about the sniper?



No, you run on ahead to wherever you're told to go and denounce your enemies. I don't think you guys really need my help there as bad as you pretend. I will linger over the evidence that interests me until I get the best reading I can. I understand your reticence to follow suit, of course, as with those in the Kiev cabal.

I don’t think Putin was behind the snipers or bringing chaos to Ukraine. This was not on his agenda at all having come from a successful Olympics. In fact it all seems to be timed to occur exactly after the Olympics to impede Putin’s outreach and standing in the World. Putin is seen as an obstacle in bringing sanctions and war to Syria and Iran. The explanation that makes the most sense as to who the snipers were is the Mossad.

 

[MaGZ]

It's already known that Yanukovych's government had hired thugs to harass the protesters; it seems to me these would be the first candidates for this alleged "third force" that shot at both protesters and police.

If Fox wants to speculate that the police were shot at to somehow give Russia an excuse to invade(?), then I will speculate too and posit that the police were shot at simply to enrage them and provoke them into a final overwhelming-force crackdown on the protesters, ending the Euromaidan situation and maintaining Yanukovych's government.

I reject the idea the secret Ukrainian police would kill the own soldiers and local police.

 

[MaGZ]

Looks like all pretense of democracy is now dropped as the rebels in the Crimean parliament declared independence even ahead of the referendum.

A parliament is democracy.

 

[jimbob]

A parliament is democracy.

I'm glad to see that you think that North Korea and China are democracies.

 

[MaGZ]

Your view of Wall Street as some monolithic entity which controls CNN is conspiratorial thinking of the worst kind. Is Wall Street in turn controlled by a secret cabal of Jooos?

There is nothing secret about it.

 

[MaGZ]

Here you go: 50,000 rally in Moscow against Crimea intervention -- from AFP March 15, 2014
http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-moscow-protest-russias-action-crimea-003037662.html

Those orange flags with the spiral shape are from Solidarnost, which was co-founded by Ilya Yashin. He is one of the protest speakers quoted in the article. And the small picture with Boris Nemtsov also shows flags of the Republican Party of Russia – People's Freedom Party. I don't know what is represented by those pale blue flags with the writing or the darker blue flags with the white patches.

Russia's liberal community was already active a couple of weeks ago. On March 2, there were smaller protests by several liberal groups against the invasion.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Euro...ests-mass-support-for-troops-in-Ukraine-video

Those protests were broken up and hundreds of people were detained. I worry that the more pessimistic people interviewed in this second article will turn out to be all too correct.

And here is one in Simferopol (of all places) last week.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...r-sanctions/bVeAjBmo66cAGNmj0GLQCI/story.html

Soros’ stooges?

 

[Childlike Empress]

An interesting Agence France-Press infographic about the Crimea Referendum contains a detail that wasn't mentioned before: The referendum is only valid with more than 50% voter turnout. So that's where the "keep it as it is" vote was hiding. Who would have thought.

But apparently the turnout in some regions has already surpassed the 50% vastly and there are still four hours to vote.

 

[tyr_13]

What does this even mean? How does "launching a campaign against" has anything to do with "ignoring"? I suggest you take the time and read that article and genuinely try to understand it, instead of making silly defensive posts. It's important.

It's assertions, lies, and defense of the propaganda network of Russia. It's only important because of people buying into it.

There isn't anything of value in that rambling bunch of CT. Argument by verbosity with tons of red-herring, straw men, and outright lies. It's hilarious until you realize people actually fall for that stuff.

Russia's so clearly in the wrong on this one that the only argument is what to do about it, and if it's worth doing anything about it. The persecution complex is just a smokescreen.

 

[Childlike Empress]

It's assertions, lies, and defense of the propaganda network of Russia. It's only important because of people buying into it.

There isn't anything of value in that rambling bunch of CT. Argument by verbosity with tons of red-herring, straw men, and outright lies. It's hilarious until you realize people actually fall for that stuff.

Russia's so clearly in the wrong on this one that the only argument is what to do about it, and if it's worth doing anything about it. The persecution complex is just a smokescreen.

Are you sure you genuinely tried to understand it? Because it seems like you failed. At least your assessment of alleged obviousness stands diametrical against what the people who look like running your show think. Hillary is quite concerned about losing the infowar, as you may have learned if you made it through more than a couple of paragraphs.

 

[Childlike Empress]

The EuromaidanPR youtube channel brings us some horrific scenes from the "Illegal Referendum" in Kerch, Crimea:


Seems like they need a PR adviser.

 

[jimbob]

Childlike Empress, the Guardian is not the same as Fox news. Nor is the New York Times the same as Bild.

 

[Childlike Empress]

jimbob, why does it take some Frenchmen to tell you (or rather me) about the "only valid with more than 50% voter turnout" rule?

 

[Dcdrac]

it is naivete to see this as anything other than it is, a barely disguised land grab by the Russian federation, they did it to Georgia using the same tactics and they are doing it again in the Ukraine. sadly the West is always wrong no matter what it does brigade cannot see beyond their childlike fantasies.

 

[tyr_13]

Are you sure you genuinely tried to understand it? Because it seems like you failed. At least your assessment of alleged obviousness stands diametrical against what the people who look like running your show think. Hillary is quite concerned about losing the infowar, as you may have learned if you made it through more than a couple of paragraphs.

Yes I made it to the CT nonsense.

In the west, new networks actively compete with each other. That does have it's own problems, and the west does have media issues...which is a red herring as it doesn't support your contention or the contentions of the article.

Russia's still wrong and their 'news' outlets are controlled to a much, much higher degree and in ways that the various western media groups are not.

It doesn't work the way you assert it does. The information in the article is of no value for determining the validity of what your favored propaganda sources are saying.

 

[ZouPrime]

jimbob, why does it take some Frenchmen to tell you (or rather me) about the "only valid with more than 50% voter turnout" rule?

Why do you think it matters? Do you believe that having a high turnout is difficult to pull off for the Russians?

 

[jimbob]

jimbob, why does it take some Frenchmen to tell you (or rather me) about the "only valid with more than 50% voter turnout" rule?

That was news to me - Russia Today didn't mention that, in fact it implied the opposite

There will be two questions on the Crimean referendum ballots.

“The first one: Are you in favor of Crimea becoming a constituent territory of the Russian Federation. The second one: Are you in favor of restoring Crimea’s 1992 constitution,” the autonomous region’s First Deputy-Premier Rustam Temirgaliev said.

According to the 1992 constitution, the autonomous republic is part of Ukraine but has relations with Kiev, defined on the basis of mutual agreements.

The variant which gets the simple majority will be the winner in the referendum.

Anyway I was making a similar point to Tyr13 about press freedom and the fact that Western news organisations are far from monolithic.

The news organisations that published Snowdon's revelations wouldn't be my first choice as poodles for the US government or the rest of the West.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Why do you think it matters? Do you believe that having a high turnout is difficult to pull off for the Russians?

It matters because jimbob and others made a big deal out of it based on pre$$titude stories mocking the ballot while omitting important information. You can go upthread and see me writing that more information is needed for me to join in the condemning choir. Here it is, and it's perfectly clear.

In case you think today saw frightened crimeans forced at gunpoint by terrifying hordes of Russian soldiers to make their vote, you couldn't be further from the truth and are a clear victim of propaganda. Maybe you wanna take a look at the videos @BritinUkraine has been and is making today.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Anyway I was making a similar point to Tyr13 about press freedom and the fact that Western news organisations are far from monolithic.

The news organisations that published Snowdon's revelations wouldn't be my first choice as poodles for the US government or the rest of the West.

I'll break the article down for you guys - of course extremely simplified. Channels like RT and PressTV etc are NOT "anti-american". They are pro-Russian, pro-Iranian etc. The stuff in the Western corporate press is NOT objective, it is pro-American. To think that this makes it "monolithic" is nonsense, exactly like thinking even RT on its own is controlled so closely by the evil Putin that no dissent is possible as Abby Martin has just shown.

Hillary and US "foreign policy" makers are so concerned and hate RT etc because they want you to ONLY consume pro-American information. Because they know how far that bubble is away from reality.

 

[ZouPrime]

It matters because jimbob and others made a big deal out of it based on pre$$titude stories mocking the ballot while omitting important information. You can go upthread and see me writing that more information is needed for me to join in the condemning choir. Here it is, and it's perfectly clear.

I understand, but that particular bit of information doesn't change much.

In case you think today saw frightened crimeans forced at gunpoint by terrifying hordes of Russian soldiers to make their vote, you couldn't be further from the truth and are a clear victim of propaganda. Maybe you wanna take a look at the videos @BritinUkraine has been and is making today.

I wasn't thinking that.

 

[Childlike Empress]

That was news to me - Russia Today didn't mention that, in fact it implied the opposite

Where does it "imply the opposite"? It just doesn't mention it in that article, and as they are not claiming that the vote is a farce because of only the two options, it's not an omission here (but sure would've been interesting to know for us who were told to not take it seriously by other "interested parties").