Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Mary_H]

<snip>(and btw, even if they Perugians heared a "satanic" scenario allegation, who do you think would care? Amanda Knox told false ludicrous stories and accused an innocent. This is what matters to Italians).

I should hope they would care. If they didn't care, it would have meant they believe in Satanic rites, too. If they did care, it would have meant they should have concluded that the allegation was insane.

<snip>But the question, to Mignini, was not why people on obscure blogs or tabloid scribblers went on talking or believing about satanic orgy scenarios. The actual question would have been, why American tv networks decided to jump onto an appalling pro-murderer PR campaign cart.

I can answer that question for him. It's because he accused two college students of committing murder when he had no evidence or proof.

That was the point to answer, and to address to public opinion. But Mignini never did it. He never made press conferences nor press releases. Except sueing Preston (whom he had direct contact with) and another unknown journalist quoting Preston, he did nothing to fight the monstruosity of the defamation campaign that was put up against him in the US and in the English speaking world.

You suggest it was heroic for Mignini (and Rudy) not to respond to allegations, but evil for Amanda not to.

If you demand that Mignini should have "explained" to the english world that he did not put forward a satanic scenario, your expectetion is groutesque.
How many other things, the English speaking public should have been "explained" by their showpersons and scribblers, in order to set the records straight? Unfortunately, shame goes on the big networks and press, on their system of bogus information and on US xenophobia that feeds them; not on Mignini, nor on Italy.

It's hard to believe with all this defamation of Migini going on that most of Italy (and much of Europe) still believe in guilt. They had to have been getting their propaganda from somewhere.

If Mignini is so popular, why doesn't he have a fleet of supporters like Amanda and Raffaele, blogging everywhere on his behalf? All he has is three sickly websites full of kooks.

 

[RWVBWL]

<snip>
ETA - Was Napoleoni the police chief? Because that's what Dempsey calls her at about 24:50. Head of the homicide squad, police chief what's the difference.

Hi Grinder,
I read this a moment ago, seems like Napoleoni was the chief...

Monica Napoleoni is a deputy commissioner in the Perugia police department and was,
until recently, chief of the murder squad.

Interesting story linked again:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

 

[Bill Williams]

Mignini cares about Spezi. He wants to "get" Spezi, he doesn't want to allow him to take free points. He will strike him on his false steps.
Spezi wrote an article - not a letter - on the Florentine issue of Il Corriere. So his letter - a letter to the director, not to Spezi - appears like a message to discredit Spezi in the eys of his readers and potential suporters, but also a to the newspaper director and to discourage or warn those newspapers who might still host Spezi's articles.
Spezi was basically thrown out from "his" newspaper - La Nazione - where they don't even answer him any more - not just because of his criminal records but also because of his alcoholic habit - but sometimes he is hosted elsewhere (by Brindani & friends). It's unusual for Spezi now to place an article in Il Corriere Fiorentino, he did so only purporting he had the scoop of an "interview with Amanda Knox" on the days before the trial begun. But now Mignini is a "free citizen", he is totally uninvolved in the Kercher case and in the case against Spezi, so he can respond to the allegations he makes in the Florentine arena.

Thank you for this. It is finally the answer I've been hounding you about, and you have given it a go.

It fits. Mignini goes after his enemies.

 

[Dan O.]

I noticed that Machiavelli still hasn't answered my points posted almost 10 pages ago. When will the three of him ever find the time to discuss this.

 

[Bill Williams]

But the question, to Mignini, was not why people on obscure blogs or tabloid scribblers went on talking or believing about satanic orgy scenarios. The actual question would have been, why American tv networks decided to jump onto an appalling pro-murderer PR campaign cart.

I can answer that question for him. It's because he accused two college students of committing murder when he had no evidence or proof.

"Pro-murderer"? At least Machiavelli is honest about his confirmation bias. And you are correct, Mary_H, there is no evidence pointing to the two studetns at all.

Someone needs to ask Machiavelli, "How's the Florence trial going?" "What will the likely outcome be for Mr. Mignini if this goes badly for him, and (like Massei essentially did) Mignini's case brought to trial in 209 is finally and officially debunked?

Or will Machiavelli continue to claim that one needs to learn Italian law as well as the Italian language to discover that Massei said things like: Raffaele called the carabinieri before the postal police arrived?

That was the point to answer, and to address to public opinion. But Mignini never did it. He never made press conferences nor press releases. Except sueing Preston (whom he had direct contact with) and another unknown journalist quoting Preston, he did nothing to fight the monstruosity of the defamation campaign that was put up against him in the US and in the English speaking world.

You suggest it was heroic for Mignini (and Rudy) not to respond to allegations, but evil for Amanda not to.

One thing you are good at, Mary_H, is pointing out the obvious double standard Machiavelli operates from. For instance, when Machiavelli implies that Barbie Nadeau is a liar for herself claiming "Satanic Rite" and more, Machiavelli says she's only an "approximate reporter", instead of full on calling her a liar.

Like Machiavelli does against knox who was coerced at interrogation.

 

[Bill Williams]

I noticed that Machiavelli still hasn't answered my points posted almost 10 pages ago. When will the three of him ever find the time to discuss this.

You may need to keep relisting them. In fairness to the various Machiavellis.... when hounded, he does get around to it.

 

[codyjuneau]

He also gave himself more space to work with by moving her into the middle of the room.

The crime scene does not memorialize every detail of what happened. It tells a story in broad strokes. She was in front of the wardrobe when he cut her throat, and he dragged her to the spot where she was found. I don't see any other way to explain the details shown in the photos. But I don't know if it's possible to be sure whether he did so with the jacket or the strap of her bra.

.
When I look at Meredith's final resting place and the position of her right arm and leg, it appears to me that Rudy dragged her by grabbing her right arm with his left hand, and her right leg with his right hand.

If so, it would imply her jeans were removed before Rudy dragged her, either before he attacked, or during the attack.

I have never heard of any bloody hand prints being found on her bare skin, and in particular not on her right arm or right leg, which leads me to believe he may have cleaned up in the bathroom, or with a towel, before finally dragging her to that position.

I still think it is possible he was intending to wrap her in the duvet and remove her body, but changed his mind for some reason.
.

 

[codyjuneau]

More likely you'd be played by real life Tom Cruise type or Jim Jones.

I'm more of a Steve Buscemi, Kevin Spacey or Jason Robards.

ETA - I see that you are unable to provide proof he said it and you can't explain why it is so important. Why not go back to your in situ or fog of nonsense or Hellmann had right completely right and I, Bill Williams am the only one that gets it phases.

Are you still in contact with Frank S? Is he giving you ammunition?

.
Grinder, I know you are always correct and so have never needed to change your opinion on anything in your life, but if you should happen to one day, are we allowed to rub your nose in it forever, like you do to Bill regarding his opinion on the Callunia charge?

And, are you related to my ex wife?.
.

 

[davefoc]

The term "satanic" rite wasn't used.

October 19 2008 Il Tempo newspaper reported that the prosecutor, “honorable” judge and lead investigator, Giuliano Mignini, addressed the court:

“The murder was premeditated, and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and, sacrificial rite … In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and, Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed, for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when, for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

People inferred by this statement that this meant "satanic". Also this was just what was said in court.

1. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the article?
2. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the trial transcript?
3. Does Machiavelli agree that the section from the trial transcript was quoted and translated accurately?
4. Why isn't this the definitive post on this issue? It looks like a lot of people might categorize what was described as constituting a Satanic Rite not intending to mean the term in the way that implies that rites that are part of Satanic worship were done. But it also looks like there is no publicly available evidence that Mignini ever used the term or intended to imply rituals that were used by Satan worshiping groups.
5. Machiavelli proposed that Halloween was mentioned to just establish the date of the murder. Is this really a plausible reading of this passage?
6. Machiavelli proposed that the English word rite was not an accurate translation of the Italian word rito. What were the Italian words that were translated, "A sexual and, sacrificial rite", and how should they have been translated?

Also reported in the Italian media, the authorities, media, and others referred to Amanda Knox as: ” Luciferina, She-Devil, Whore, Witch, Angel Face, Diavola (she devil), Temptress, Lilith, Jezebel, Slut, Half Demon, Dirty Inside and Out, Diabolical, Party Girl, Evil, Violent, Dangerous, Jealous, Mean, Uncaring, Evil Incarnate, Compulsive Liar, Evil Fox, Sex Crazed Killer, Lesbian, Icicle Eyes, Graphomaniac, Demonic, Satanic, Diabolical She Devil, Promiscuous, Witch of Deception, (wears a) Mask of Deception, Mask of an Imposter, Cunning, Muddy on the Outside & Dirty on the Inside, Actress, Likes Hot Wild Sex, Histrionic, Face of a Naive Doll, Slovenly, Spell Casting Witch, Comes from a Family of Nazi Propagandists, Virtuoso of Deception, Dissolute, Half Maria Goretti & Half Demon, sloppy housekeeper, evil eyes, liar, terrible taste in clothes, annoying.”

Graphomaniac? I haven't looked it up yet but it caught my attention.

ETA: I looked it up. Kind of disappointing, it meant what it sounded like it might. I had hoped for something a bit more lurid.

 

[RandyN]

1. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the article?
2. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the trial transcript?
3. Does Machiavelli agree that the section from the trial transcript was quoted and translated accurately?
4. Why isn't this the definitive post on this issue? It looks like a lot of people might categorize what was described as constituting a Satanic Rite not intending to mean the term in the way that implies that rites that are part of Satanic worship were done. But it also looks like there is no publicly available evidence that Mignini ever used the term or intended to imply rituals that were used by Satan worshiping groups.
5. Machiavelli proposed that Halloween was mentioned to just establish the date of the murder. Is this really a plausible reading of this passage?
6. Machiavelli proposed that the English word rite was not an accurate translation of the Italian word rito. What were the Italian words that were translated, "A sexual and, sacrificial rite", and how should they have been translated?


Graphomaniac? I haven't looked it up yet but it caught my attention.

ETA: I looked it up. Kind of disappointing, it meant what it sounded like it might. I had hoped for something a bit more lurid.

Dont know who the quote of names for Knox is attributed to but they forgot stinky...they called her stinky.

I read somewhere that in Italy it is quite common to believe in Satanic Rites...have to see if I can find the reference...

Mignini said it and alluded to it and it will be found. So what that he denies it now. He is a a proven liar. A simpleton actually. And a big fat cry baby. I mean he tried to arrest and charge Michele Moore for calling him evil. And he ran like a little beeaich trying to find some way to make this evil woman pay for her truth... What a dolt. MM remains one of my heroes...beauty, brains and ball$...well metaphorically speaking about the ball thing.

 

[RandyN]

Because he is playing games, another reason to take Spezi to court. That is how he deals with criticism and Spezi is number 1 on the enemies list.
It's attached to Halloween and the Day of the Dead and it's a manga related hard drug fueled sex game according to Mignini. What's the difference between seriously whacked and insane?

Lol has everyone seen this pic of Mignini taken the exact moment AK and RS were declared innocent during the first appeal trial?
Guess who took it? LOL...thats right on Mario... I think Migninis other enemy Frank S was standing right beside Spezi...and look...both are charged with ludicrous crimes by the abuser of office and power. All these people who have been dragged into court for speaking the truth about an evil abusive liar. How dumb can the Italians be to allow fatso to continue this mockery of the court system? The court must have no respect for itself to shamelessly allow this charge and drag approach for those who displease the Great and powerful Mignini...how transparently corrupt and abusive.

 

[RandyN]

Because our extradition treaty obligation is with Italy and NOT the European Union. And US courts would only apply US laws that we are a part of.

That there may be International law would be irrelevant to a US court. But keep in mind that it is the US executive branch that has final can use the reasoning you state, but it won't be a US court that uses that reasoning. A US court is only going to look at US law which does consider treaty obligations.

I don't think there is a chance in hell that the US would extradite Amanda Knox. But then again, I didn't think the ISC would overturn the acquittal. Remember the US State Department doesn't even have to provide a reason to Italy why it won't honor the extradition request.

Italy can request extradition but Knox can appeal that request. This would force a trial on US soil in front of a US judge. Perhaps this judge could invite Mignini to present the case (since it is so complicated...was that his excuse last time) for guilt against Knox. I would take bets that Mignini would not last an hour in an honest court. He and his case would be either laughed out the door and else he would be arrested and tossed in the slammer himself for actually attempting to jail innocent people with such a baseless case and plus the overwhelming indications of corruption and highly questionable witnesses and a gross amount of suspicious circumstances regarding evidence and missing data and withheld discovery denied rights, etc...In short Mignini or whoever would be tossed out on their lying corrupt azz....no doubt in my mind.

 

[RandyN]

Mignini cares about Spezi. He wants to "get" Spezi, he doesn't want to allow him to take free points. He will strike him on his false steps.
Spezi wrote an article - not a letter - on the Florentine issue of Il Corriere. So his letter - a letter to the director, not to Spezi - appears like a message to discredit Spezi in the eys of his readers and potential suporters, but also a to the newspaper director and to discourage or warn those newspapers who might still host Spezi's articles.
Spezi was basically thrown out from "his" newspaper - La Nazione - where they don't even answer him any more - not just because of his criminal records but also because of his alcoholic habit - but sometimes he is hosted elsewhere (by Brindani & friends). It's unusual for Spezi now to place an article in Il Corriere Fiorentino, he did so only purporting he had the scoop of an "interview with Amanda Knox" on the days before the trial begun. But now Mignini is a "free citizen", he is totally uninvolved in the Kercher case and in the case against Spezi, so he can respond to the allegations he makes in the Florentine arena.

Spezi...the only Italian living in Italy with a real set. Not afraid of pointing out corruption in the judicial system in the form of fat faced Mignini ...corrupt abuser of office and power. 2 to 3 dozen sub-related cases brought by Mignini against people he hates and for no other reason. This is all the proof that sane people need to see the truth about Mignini.

 

[RoseMontague]

1. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the article?
2. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the trial transcript?
3. Does Machiavelli agree that the section from the trial transcript was quoted and translated accurately?
4. Why isn't this the definitive post on this issue? It looks like a lot of people might categorize what was described as constituting a Satanic Rite not intending to mean the term in the way that implies that rites that are part of Satanic worship were done. But it also looks like there is no publicly available evidence that Mignini ever used the term or intended to imply rituals that were used by Satan worshiping groups.
5. Machiavelli proposed that Halloween was mentioned to just establish the date of the murder. Is this really a plausible reading of this passage?
6. Machiavelli proposed that the English word rite was not an accurate translation of the Italian word rito. What were the Italian words that were translated, "A sexual and, sacrificial rite", and how should they have been translated?


Graphomaniac? I haven't looked it up yet but it caught my attention.

ETA: I looked it up. Kind of disappointing, it meant what it sounded like it might. I had hoped for something a bit more lurid.

Going by memory when I researched this a good while back, Il Tempo online is a mini version of their actual paper and changes daily and the wayback machine did not get a snapshot of this date. The actual image files of the paper are behind a register/paywall, IIRC. Maybe one of our Italian posters has access.

One missing from this (Amanda called) list is the defense team name of Jessica Rabbit.

 

[Kaosium]

1. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the article?
2. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the trial transcript?
3. Does Machiavelli agree that the section from the trial transcript was quoted and translated accurately?
4. Why isn't this the definitive post on this issue? It looks like a lot of people might categorize what was described as constituting a Satanic Rite not intending to mean the term in the way that implies that rites that are part of Satanic worship were done. But it also looks like there is no publicly available evidence that Mignini ever used the term or intended to imply rituals that were used by Satan worshiping groups.
5. Machiavelli proposed that Halloween was mentioned to just establish the date of the murder. Is this really a plausible reading of this passage?
6. Machiavelli proposed that the English word rite was not an accurate translation of the Italian word rito. What were the Italian words that were translated, "A sexual and, sacrificial rite", and how should they have been translated?

Here's some additional information, part of a transcription of Mignini's closing arguments in the Massei Court which would have happened around early December, 2009, along with a google translate:

A questo va aggiunta, ai fini della ricostruzione della personalità dei tre imputati (su Amanda e Raffaele si tornerà in seguito), l'innegabile tendenza di questi soggetti (In particolare del Sollecito) alla lettura di racconti particolarmente violenti, In particolare Il manga "Blood The Last Vampire", fumetto rinvenuto nell'abitazione del Sollecito, contenente scene estreme di violenza e di sesso, oltre alla spiccata predilezione per tutti i tipi di coltelli. Di Amanda va ricordato il racconto scritto un anno prima del delitto e in cui veniva descritto l'omicidio di una studentessa (sottoposta anche a violenta sessuale) con un coltello da cucina riportato poi nel suo posto. La giovane muore bevendo il suo sangue. Del Guede va richiamato un video in cui lo stesso fa la parte del vampiro e l'abitudine di circolare con un coltello a serramanico.

Questo è un po' t l'aspetto più appariscente ed impressionante di questa vicenda: e cioè il fatto che delitti efferati e crudeli che un tempo erano riservati a particolarissime tipologie di criminali, oggi, per una forma di livellamento dei fenomeni criminali a tutta la collettività, per l'atmosfera satura di violenza e di efferatezza che si respira alta televisione, al cinema e in una certa editoria (si vedano, appunto, ceti opuscoli rinvenuti in questa indagine in cui sembra fotografata l'uccisione di Meredith), di tale crudeltá divengono capaci dei giovani che qualcuno ha definito, riferendosi soprattutto alla Knox e al Sollecito, come i "ragazzi della porta accanto".

Tavernese Francesco, responsabile della Sezione universitaria dell'ONAOSI, come vedremo, ha ricordato che Raffaele era un fan di Marilyn Manson e che un altro frequentatore del collegio aveva raccontato di essere rimasto turbato dal fatto che lo stesso visionava dei film erotici dal contenuto davvero violento, quelli cosiddetti dì "sesso estremo" (vds. dich. del 22.05.08)

Ma la realtà che emerge da questa vicenda è proprio questa. Bisogna prenderne atto.

La notte tra il primo e il due ha una caratteristica: Meredith e Amanda erano sole in casa, per la prima loro convivenza universitaria. Non c'erano i ragazzi italiani al piano di sotto e non c'erano né Filomena Romainelli né Laura Mezzetti. Era la prima, unica notte in cui si poteva trascinare quella ragazza riservata ed innamorata del "fidanzatino" Giacomo Silenzi, oltreché attacata alla sua famiglia e, soprattutto, alla madre e alla ragazze inglesi che facevano un po' "mondo a sé", in un perverso gioco sessuale di gruppo in occasione del quale ci si sarebbe potuti anche impossessare del denaro che Meredith, sempre puntualissima, avrebbe dovuto versare dopo il "ponte", cioè il successivo lunedi 5 novembre, fermo rimanendo che ciò che spinge i tre ad organizzare il "festino" è una motivazione di tipo sessuale, con verisimili agganci nella fumettistica di cui tre disponevano.

E va sottolineato che, in ogni caso, per soggetti, morbosamente attratti dalla commistione di sesso e di violenza, è tutt'altro che inverosimile la connessione di tale progetto alla tradizione di Halloween, percbé se è vero che Ia notte tra il 31 ottobre e il primo novembre era passata (e Meredith l'aveva trascorsa con le sue amiche connazionali), è altrettanto vero che, alle 21 circa del primo novembre e per le successive tre ore, si fosse ancora nella giornata di Ognissanti e che quello che non si fosse potuto realizzare nella notte di viglia della Festività dei Santi, si potesse realizzare nella notte di passaggio da quest'ultima alla Festività dei Defunti.
Non ci si poteva lasciar scappare quell'occasione.

To this is added for the purpose of reconstruction of the personality of the three defendants (on Amanda and Raffaele will return later), the undeniable trend of these subjects (in particular the Sollecito) to read stories particularly violent, in particular The manga "Blood the Last Vampire "comic book found in the home of Sollecito, containing scenes of extreme violence and sex, in addition to the strong preference for all kinds of knives. Amanda must remember the story written a year before the murder and was described in which the murder of a student (also subjected to violent sexual) with a kitchen knife later recorded in his place. The young man dies drinking his blood. Guede must be called of a video in which it plays the part of the vampire and the habit of driving with a switchblade.

This is a bit 't the most striking and impressive of this story: namely, the fact that cruel and heinous crimes that were once reserved for very specific types of criminals, today, a form of leveling of criminality to the entire community, for the saturated atmosphere of violence and brutality that is breathed high television, film and publishing a certain (see, in fact, walks leaflets found in this investigation which seems photographed the murder of Meredith) of that cruelty become capable of young people who some have called, referring especially to Knox and Sollecito, as the "boys next door".

Tavernese Francesco head of the Section university dell'ONAOSI, as we shall see, he mentioned that Raphael was a fan of Marilyn Manson and that another visitor to the college had told him that he was troubled by the fact that the same visionava of erotic films from the content really violent , those so-called "extreme sex" (vds. dich.'s 05/22/08)

But the reality that emerges from this story is this. You have to accept.

The night between the first and the second has one characteristic: Meredith and Amanda were alone in the house, they live together for the first university. There were no Italian guys downstairs and there were no Filomena Romanelli nor Laura Mezzetti. It was the first, the only night where you could drag the reserved girl in love with "boyfriend" Giacomo Silenzi, as well as attached to her family and especially her mother and English girls who were a bit '"world apart" in a perverse group sex game at which one would have also to take possession of the money that Meredith, always punctual, he would have had to pay after the "bridge", ie the following Monday, Nov. 5, still remains that what drives the three to organize the "feast" is a motivation of a sexual nature, be probable to engage in comics, three of which possessed.

It should be noted that, in any case, for those morbidly attracted by the mixture of sex and violence, it is far-fetched to connect the project to the tradition of Halloween, percbé if it is true that on the night of between 31 October and November 1 was passed (and Meredith had spent with her ​​friends compatriots), it is equally true that, at 21 about the first November and for the next three hours, it was still the day of All Saints' Day and what you do not was able to achieve on the night of the eve Holidays of the Saints, could be realized in the night to pass from the latter to the festival of the dead.
You could not let escape that occasion.

Credit to Rose and Hans of IIP.

At this point it appears he's treating Halloween as the eve of All Saint's Day and if I comprehend the google translate correctly that they were able to accomplish on All Saint's Day what they couldn't on the Eve of it (Halloween) because there was no one else around. The Day of the Dead follows All Saint's Day so that works out fine for perverse sex-murderers and their comics-inspired sexual 'feasts' which even the well-scrubbed kids next door are susceptible to these days because of the sex and violence on TV and their comics, like the three Raffaele had, especially that naughty one called 'The Last Vampire.' Raffaele (he says someone said) liked Marilyn Manson and I guess everyone knows what that means. Oh, and then there's that video of Rudy Guede dressed as Dracula saying 'I vant to suck your blood' or somesuch.

That connects them all, remember Amanda wrote a story¹ where a brother ended up fighting another brother because of what he did to another girl who was drunk, so that's sexual violence and since the story ends with him tasting his blood that's vampires too. A razor was mentioned and in Mignini's interpretation it wasn't used as a simile, it was a real knife so he must have died even though he doesn't in the story and it's implied he was just hit in the face and it felt like a razor and he'll be seeing his brother again. Close enough for Mignini at any rate. Maybe he thinks Edgar was figuring to come back as a vampire!

So in other words he's saying three kids corrupted by all these bad influences went and celebrated with a group sex game on the Catholic holiday All Saints Day, and while there was money to be had that doesn't explain why they chose to participate in a sexually motivated feast inspired by the vampire comics, that had to do with missing the eve of All Saints Day but being able to do it on All Saint's Day which was the Eve of the Day of the Dead, an occasion they couldn't let go by.

Something like that. I guess we're supposed to ponder why they couldn't let that opportunity get away, but I wonder what that might imply to the traditionally conservative Perugian (where exorcism conferences are held) Catholic jurors? Vampires don't like crosses and holy water, Saints don't like sex, and the Adversary is always looking to corrupt the youth....

Nah, couldn't be. They'd never jump to that conclusion.

Graphomaniac? I haven't looked it up yet but it caught my attention.

ETA: I looked it up. Kind of disappointing, it meant what it sounded like it might. I had hoped for something a bit more lurid.

I looked it up too, I'm doomed!

Incidentally, at some point in court Mignini refers to his having Amanda and Raffaele's handwriting 'analyzed' by a graphologist. The 'analysis' suggested Amanda was a lying narcissistic dominatrix and Raffaele her little bitch.

¹

Edgar dropped to the floor and tasted the blood in his mouth and swallowed it. He couldn’t move his jaw and it felt like someone was jabbing a razor into the left side of his face. His eyes blurred and became focused intermittently and he gently shook this off, watching his hands until they came into focus. He looked up at Kyle and waited a moment to focus there too. Kyle’s hands covered his face.

“Get out.” Edgar whispered. It was surprising, that the thought of the statement was easier than the actual physical statement of the words.

Kyle’s hands fell from his face. His eyes were wide and his mouth was partially open. “What?” he said, unmoving.

“Get out.” Edgar said again. His mouth was bleeding and pulsated fire.

“What? Where am I supposed to go?” Kyle paced a few feet and back, avoiding eye contact with his brother. His hands went to cover his face, but he threw them down, and then covered his face again.

“Who do you think you are?” Edgar said, knowing the full gravity of the statement wouldn’t register. “Get out.”

Kyle stopped pacing and stared down at Edgar with his wide eyes. He hesitated, and then grabbed a jacket from his bed, went to the door, and slammed it behind him.

Edgar let himself fully rest on the carpet and felt the blood ooze between his teeth and out of his lips onto the floor. He spit into the blossoming smudge beside his head. He closed his eyes and his head felt cold, and he laid there until the tears slowly crept up on him again. Of course, Kyle would return, probably smelling like the inside of an alcoholic’s mouth, and like any responsible brother, Edgar would open the door. Edgar would let Kyle back into his own meaningless space, with a spot stained purple-red on the carpet of their one shared room. It was the last remnant of the floppy, pale spirit between them.

 

[JREF2010]

(Newser) – "Amanda Knox was supposed to give a big jailhouse interview to coincide with her upcoming slander trial, but Italian officials canceled it at the last minute. Noted Knox hater Barbie Latza Nadeau was crestfallen, she writes for the DailyBeast, because she had a whole list of nasty questions she'd have loved to hear Foxy Knoxy answer. Including:

1. Why was your blood mixed in with Meredith Kercher's at the crime scene?
2. When you realized Patrick Lumumba wasn't guilty of the murder, why didn't you tell anyone?
3. Why weren't your fingerprints found in your house after the murder, if you were there taking a shower that morning?
4. If you could go back in time to November 3, 2007, what would you do differently? Would you attend Kercher's funeral? Would you have left for Germany when your aunt asked you to?
5. Who do you think killed Meredith Kercher?"

They are making a movie based on Barbie Nadeau's book Angel face, Is she still a noted Knox Hater?
I will answer your questions Barbie
1) It wasn't Knox's blood, it was her dna from her dead skin cells and such that got dissolved in Meredith's blood.
2) I never thought Patrick was guilty of murder. Why would I realize that ***hole?
3) like ,duh........I lived in that house, my fingerprints were all over it.
4) I would have been in the Fatherland ASAP.
5) duh.....Rudy Guede, everybody knows that.

yes it wouldn't have been such a great day.

#2 Amanda has said she told her lawyers, about the Interrogation and Patrick....my understanding is the Lawyers knew and dealt with it as they saw fit. Amanda was also not communicating to the prosecution and Perugia gestapo by then.

but Barbie knows this too, so her question day wasn't missed by anyone.

 

[Grinder]

Hi Grinder,
I read this a moment ago, seems like Napoleoni was the chief...

Monica Napoleoni is a deputy commissioner in the Perugia police department and was,
until recently, chief of the murder squad.

Interesting story linked again:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

She called her the chief of police which she wasn't.

 

[js202]

1. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the article?
2. Are the English and Italian sources on line for the trial transcript?
3. Does Machiavelli agree that the section from the trial transcript was quoted and translated accurately?
4. Why isn't this the definitive post on this issue? It looks like a lot of people might categorize what was described as constituting a Satanic Rite not intending to mean the term in the way that implies that rites that are part of Satanic worship were done. But it also looks like there is no publicly available evidence that Mignini ever used the term or intended to imply rituals that were used by Satan worshiping groups.
5. Machiavelli proposed that Halloween was mentioned to just establish the date of the murder. Is this really a plausible reading of this passage?
6. Machiavelli proposed that the English word rite was not an accurate translation of the Italian word rito. What were the Italian words that were translated, "A sexual and, sacrificial rite", and how should they have been translated?


Graphomaniac? I haven't looked it up yet but it caught my attention.

ETA: I looked it up. Kind of disappointing, it meant what it sounded like it might. I had hoped for something a bit more lurid.

My wife was a banker in Milan for five years, maintains warm relationships from that period, and remains absolutely fluent in the Italian language. I just ran Machiavelli's "I do not think that word means what you think it means" theory with regard to rito and riti past her, and she was bemused. The term pertains to rites, full stop, and could absolutely be used to describe a ritual murder on Halloween, Satanic implications not absolutely necessary but also notwithstanding.

As you well know, in a pose not unlike that of the infamous Iraqi propaganda minister as US tanks filled the frame behind him, buffoonery be damned, Signor Machiavelli has made it his stated purpose to cede absolutely no ground to the infide..., er, enemy, in this debate. However preposterously self-evident the errors and fudging in his positions may happen to be. Therefore the terms of the debate, themselves, are dishonest, invidious, and, aside from ethnographic interest, unworthy of your time.

 

[Grinder]

.
Grinder, I know you are always correct and so have never needed to change your opinion on anything in your life, but if you should happen to one day, are we allowed to rub your nose in it forever, like you do to Bill regarding his opinion on the Callunia charge?

Sure hammer me. I do try to be correct but I'm sure you will soon find something I'm mistaken about. Actually I've been corrected on many things here and generally thank the person for the correction.

I don't think that I have ever done what he did with that aspect. Maybe you should go back and read his first 10 posts. The point of bringing it up is that it so similar to current "insights" no one else has, just like the callunnia.

Perhaps you can explain his obsession with Mignini's letter. Maybe you can provide the direct quote on "satanic rite" and why that expression is so important. I'm not saying that it is not possible that he said it but no one to date has produced it and using Nadeau as the source when we all know she isn't exactly an reliable source.

[And, are you related to my ex wife?. .

Sorry it didn't work out honey.

 

[Bill Williams]

Incidentally, at some point in court Mignini refers to his having Amanda and Raffaele's handwriting 'analyzed' by a graphologist. The 'analysis' suggested Amanda was a lying narcissistic dominatrix and Raffaele her little bitch.

Machiavelli claims to have discerned through Knox's handwriting that she was able to choose not to sleep, and thus have no fatigue or deprivation effects.

My wife discerned from a grocery list that I hand-wrote for her that I was late in returning a library book. Damn, one sloppy "y" in cursive and I'm busted......