Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

I'm thinking of selling the film rights. My asking price is that Brad Pitt plays me, and Pee Wee Herman plays Grinder. James Woods plays Machiavelli and Tilda Swinton plays Andrea Vogt.

More likely you'd be played by real life Tom Cruise type or Jim Jones.

I'm more of a Steve Buscemi, Kevin Spacey or Jason Robards.

ETA - I see that you are unable to provide proof he said it and you can't explain why it is so important. Why not go back to your in situ or fog of nonsense or Hellmann had right completely right and I, Bill Williams am the only one that gets it phases.

Are you still in contact with Frank S? Is he giving you ammunition?

 

[Mary_H]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

"Instead of dropping the charges against Napoleoni, the Perugia prosecutor appealed the judge's "no evidence" opinion, leaving Napoleoni under a cloud of suspicion to this day. And Napoleoni's reaction? She told the media, it was "unjustified aggression toward me by the prosecutor" and a "totally subjective interpretation of the facts."

"Could Napoleoni be right? After her lengthy connection to the Kercher case, who better to know when a prosecutor engages in "unjustified aggression" and "totally subjective interpretation of the facts." The only thing left to wonder is, is there an Italian phrase for "if the shoe fits, wear it'?"

 

[Mary_H]

I didn't see any mention of satanic in the linked article. When I did a search - Mignini "satanic rite" - only 19,000 hits most of which were written by Bill W

 

[Bill Williams]

No I don't get it.

I know.

Please lay out why you think it is important?

It's not important to me, really. I believe it is important to Mignini because he believes it's a link between the Spezi case and the Kercher murder trials.

Why it is a line in sand?

How do you know when Mignini or anybody else first complained about the use, because I recall that people for years have been saying that Mignini and the prosecution had never claimed satanic anything?

I don't know when Mignini first complained about it. I am conspiratorial minded, as other posters have put forward better than I that early on even the stuff about Mignini's theory of Satanic Rite served to inflame things against Knox and Solelcito, tabloid style. Once the tabloids started to sort out fact from fiction (witness recent Daily Mail stuff) Mignini now (in 2013) wants to be as far from those early salacious things, esp. the ones which bridge Spezi and Kercher.

How am I doing so far? This is one of the remaining lines in the sand, because is Mignini 'fess's up to it, then there really IS credence to the suggestion that Mignini consulted psychics regularly to solve cases....

 

[Bill Williams]

More likely you'd be played by real life Tom Cruise type or Jim Jones.

I'm more of a Steve Buscemi, Kevin Spacey or Jason Robards.

ETA - I see that you are unable to provide proof he said it and you can't explain why it is so important. Why not go back to your in situ or fog of nonsense or Hellmann had right completely right and I, Bill Williams am the only one that gets it phases.

Are you still in contact with Frank S? Is he giving you ammunition?

Now that just hurts!

 

[Bill Williams]

I didn't see any mention of satanic in the linked article. When I did a search - Mignini "satanic rite" - only 19,000 hits most of which were written by Bill W

Oh sure, take Grinder's side!

 

[Bill Williams]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

"Instead of dropping the charges against Napoleoni, the Perugia prosecutor appealed the judge's "no evidence" opinion, leaving Napoleoni under a cloud of suspicion to this day. And Napoleoni's reaction? She told the media, it was "unjustified aggression toward me by the prosecutor" and a "totally subjective interpretation of the facts."

"Could Napoleoni be right? After her lengthy connection to the Kercher case, who better to know when a prosecutor engages in "unjustified aggression" and "totally subjective interpretation of the facts." The only thing left to wonder is, is there an Italian phrase for "if the shoe fits, wear it'?"

Karma is a dish best served cold, is it not?

This whole half-decade debacle threatens to come unwrappped. The PLE may have initially felt vindicated by last March's ISC reversal.... but the longer this is in the news, the more these sorts of connections can be made.

Key is that Knox herself stayed away from Florence. The media was honed in on her way, way, way, too much. Without her, maybe Napoleoni's exploits can be examined with the few journalists who bother to cover this case with Knox absent.

My view is that Mignini is preparing a line in the sand, trying to keep Spezi and the Kercher trials forever separated. If they get joined.... through things like "Satanic Rite", then a cascade of "under the bus throwing" might very well be next,.....

...... and the PLE will rue the day the ISC reversed this.

My small minded, conspiratorial mind is working overtime.....

 

[Diocletus]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

"Instead of dropping the charges against Napoleoni, the Perugia prosecutor appealed the judge's "no evidence" opinion, leaving Napoleoni under a cloud of suspicion to this day. And Napoleoni's reaction? She told the media, it was "unjustified aggression toward me by the prosecutor" and a "totally subjective interpretation of the facts."

"Could Napoleoni be right? After her lengthy connection to the Kercher case, who better to know when a prosecutor engages in "unjustified aggression" and "totally subjective interpretation of the facts." The only thing left to wonder is, is there an Italian phrase for "if the shoe fits, wear it'?"

I wonder who this judge and prosecutor are.

The judge engaged in the expected whitewash: "there's no evidence that Napoleoni did anything even though the criminal acts are directed against her estranged husband and an expert witness who opined against Napoleoni." OK, whatever you say.

But then . . . the prosecutor goes totally off the reservation, and files an appeal, keeping the matter alive.

Most interesting.

I wonder what if anything Napoleoni's ex-husband knows about the Knox case. He would be a good one for some enterprising reporter to share coffee with.

I wonder what the prosecutor's angle is here.

 

[Supernaut]

I've found his movies to be wildly inconsistent - some I have found boring ("Genova" comes to mind), or ludicrous and ghastly ("The Killer Inside Me") but others are fantastic. No love for "The Trip" or "Cock & Bull Story"? Not even "In This World"?

Baffling. Or is he Jewish?

BTW, the reference to "Camden and Hampstead house prices" was in regard "the set" Winterbottom fervently wants/hopes to be part of.

Glib, but surely you get the drift?

 

[Grinder]

It's not important to me, really. I believe it is important to Mignini because he believes it's a link between the Spezi case and the Kercher murder trials.

Mignini responded to a letter from Spezi. Seems a measured and reasinable response. Spezi started this round. Do you believe that Mignini shouldn't respond? Can you give any other examples of Mignini drawing this Maginot line in the sand?

I don't know when Mignini first complained about it. I am conspiratorial minded, as other posters have put forward better than I that early on even the stuff about Mignini's theory of Satanic Rite served to inflame things against Knox and Solelcito, tabloid style. Once the tabloids started to sort out fact from fiction (witness recent Daily Mail stuff) Mignini now (in 2013) wants to be as far from those early salacious things, esp. the ones which bridge Spezi and Kercher.

Wow. You don't have anything resembling proof that he said "satanic rite". You don't have any examples except his response letter to say it has been a concern. Yet you have built some theory of conspiracy of Vogt and Mach (that might be the same person). And Wow.

How am I doing so far? This is one of the remaining lines in the sand, because is Mignini 'fess's up to it, then there really IS credence to the suggestion that Mignini consulted psychics regularly to solve cases....

Okay and the evidence of psychics affecting his prosecutions? Not Preston and Spezi.

I'll pass on the Kool-Aid.

 

[Grinder]

I wonder who this judge and prosecutor are.

The judge engaged in the expected whitewash: "there's no evidence that Napoleoni did anything even though the criminal acts are directed against her estranged husband and an expert witness who opined against Napoleoni." OK, whatever you say.

But then . . . the prosecutor goes totally off the reservation, and files an appeal, keeping the matter alive.

Most interesting.

I wonder what if anything Napoleoni's ex-husband knows about the Knox case. He would be a good one for some enterprising reporter to share coffee with.

I wonder what the prosecutor's angle is here.

Yeah, maybe the guy that found all the witnesses.

Maybe Frank will do it and write the story for the West Seattle Herald.

Doesn't the whole case here belie the conspiracy theories of ILE in Perugia.

 

[acbytesla]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

"Instead of dropping the charges against Napoleoni, the Perugia prosecutor appealed the judge's "no evidence" opinion, leaving Napoleoni under a cloud of suspicion to this day. And Napoleoni's reaction? She told the media, it was "unjustified aggression toward me by the prosecutor" and a "totally subjective interpretation of the facts."

"Could Napoleoni be right? After her lengthy connection to the Kercher case, who better to know when a prosecutor engages in "unjustified aggression" and "totally subjective interpretation of the facts." The only thing left to wonder is, is there an Italian phrase for "if the shoe fits, wear it'?"

The case against Napoleoni is one where if you use logic, you can tell that she was involved. There is no reason for her underling Lorena Zugarini to have been investigating the psychologist entirely on her own.

 

[Grinder]

Karma is a dish best served cold, is it not?

This whole half-decade debacle threatens to come unwrappped. The PLE may have initially felt vindicated by last March's ISC reversal.... but the longer this is in the news, the more these sorts of connections can be made.

Key is that Knox herself stayed away from Florence. The media was honed in on her way, way, way, too much. Without her, maybe Napoleoni's exploits can be examined with the few journalists who bother to cover this case with Knox absent.

My view is that Mignini is preparing a line in the sand, trying to keep Spezi and the Kercher trials forever separated. If they get joined.... through things like "Satanic Rite", then a cascade of "under the bus throwing" might very well be next,.....

...... and the PLE will rue the day the ISC reversed this.

My small minded, conspiratorial mind is working overtime.....

Ah Bill, Preston and Spezi have been connecting the two cases for 6 years every chance they get. Or at least the MOF Spezi Preston connection. I somehow doubt you know what is going on in the Spezi trial.

 

[Grinder]

The case against Napoleoni is one where if you use logic, you can tell that she was involved. There is no reason for her underling Lorena Zugarini to have been investigating the psychologist entirely on her own.

Plausible deniability.

 

[Bill Williams]

Mignini responded to a letter from Spezi. Seems a measured and reasinable response. Spezi started this round. Do you believe that Mignini shouldn't respond? Can you give any other examples of Mignini drawing this Maginot line in the sand?

A measured and reasonable response? Well, is it not a PM/investigator interfering publically with a matter before the courts? Otherwise, my problem with it is not that it is measured and reasonable - which it more than likely is. Mignini has a right to defend himself - a right which he exercises rather well, I should say.

But you're catching on. No, I cannot give another example of Mignini drawing a line in the sand like this - apparently (so far) neither can anyone else. Folk here have speculated as to why, and it remains speculation - albeit a reasonable one. Satanic Rite allegations served Mignini's case when the tabloids were in full gear, now not so much.

Wow. You don't have anything resembling proof that he said "satanic rite". You don't have any examples except his response letter to say it has been a concern. Yet you have built some theory of conspiracy of Vogt and Mach (that might be the same person). And Wow.

This is where the argument here slips back into other stuff. Again, just to represent my side of the merry-go-round, there were an awful lot of people back then who reported that he did say this. Nadeau is one (and Mignini supporters - one at least - calles her a liar), John Kercher is another who can reasonably be assumed to have got this knowledge either directly from Mignini himself, or maybe Maresca. True Kercher's account says nothing about if either Maresca or Mignini actually believed it, but Kercher seemed to have believed it, acknowledging that Mignini's claim was "controversial."

That's the sum total of it for me. Evaluate it as you will. I can only pretty much cut and paste from here on in.

Okay and the evidence of psychics affecting his prosecutions? Not Preston and Spezi.

I'll pass on the Kool-Aid.

Key to Spezi's case, unless I'm wrong, is that Mignini consulted the Perugian psychic for help in the Narducci issue. Spezi claims, someone can correct me if I am wrong, is that this guided Mignini in the early going of the Kercher murder, a horrible event which happened the day after Hallowe'en.

The line in the sand for Mignini is to deny this, as he did with his letter to the editor. That's what makes it an issue in 2013, where it was not one (apparently) in 2007-'08.

It may be Kool-Ade (I go with the old packaging), but there has to be some reason why Mignini would not visibly complain about this years ago, but now, in 2013, is trying to actively debunk the claim.

 

[Bill Williams]

Ah Bill, Preston and Spezi have been connecting the two cases for 6 years every chance they get. Or at least the MOF Spezi Preston connection. I somehow doubt you know what is going on in the Spezi trial.

Other than that, I know little about it.

 

[acbytesla]

Quote:
How widespread was the reporting of this in Italy? The satanic rite stuff hasn't been reported all that much outside of partisan bloggers and commenters here and elsewhere.<snip>

I didn't see any mention of satanic in the linked article. When I did a search - Mignini "satanic rite" - only 19,000 hits most of which were written by Bill W

The term "satanic" rite wasn't used.

ctober 19 2008 Il Tempo newspaper reported that the prosecutor, “honorable” judge and lead investigator, Giuliano Mignini, addressed the court:

“The murder was premeditated, and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and, sacrificial rite … In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and, Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed, for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when, for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

People inferred by this statement that this meant "satanic". Also this was just what was said in court.

Also reported in the Italian media, the authorities, media, and others referred to Amanda Knox as: ” Luciferina, She-Devil, Whore, Witch, Angel Face, Diavola (she devil), Temptress, Lilith, Jezebel, Slut, Half Demon, Dirty Inside and Out, Diabolical, Party Girl, Evil, Violent, Dangerous, Jealous, Mean, Uncaring, Evil Incarnate, Compulsive Liar, Evil Fox, Sex Crazed Killer, Lesbian, Icicle Eyes, Graphomaniac, Demonic, Satanic, Diabolical She Devil, Promiscuous, Witch of Deception, (wears a) Mask of Deception, Mask of an Imposter, Cunning, Muddy on the Outside & Dirty on the Inside, Actress, Likes Hot Wild Sex, Histrionic, Face of a Naive Doll, Slovenly, Spell Casting Witch, Comes from a Family of Nazi Propagandists, Virtuoso of Deception, Dissolute, Half Maria Goretti & Half Demon, sloppy housekeeper, evil eyes, liar, terrible taste in clothes, annoying.”

 

[Bill Williams]

As it asks, could an obscure child custody case in Perugia have an impact on the third Kercher murder trial in Florence? Read on....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57608734-504083/amanda-knox-update-could-an-abuse-of-power-investigation-into-several-italian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

(CBS) - An obscure child custody case in Perugia, Italy has revealed what prosecutors allege was a rogue group of four detectives in the town's elite homicide squad. Three of the detectives currently under investigation worked on the Meredith Kercher homicide in 2007 - and may shed light on how the murder squad bungled the interrogation of Amanda Knox in November 2007.

 

[RandyN]

I wonder who this judge and prosecutor are.

The judge engaged in the expected whitewash: "there's no evidence that Napoleoni did anything even though the criminal acts are directed against her estranged husband and an expert witness who opined against Napoleoni." OK, whatever you say.

But then . . . the prosecutor goes totally off the reservation, and files an appeal, keeping the matter alive.

Most interesting.

I wonder what if anything Napoleoni's ex-husband knows about the Knox case. He would be a good one for some enterprising reporter to share coffee with.

I wonder what the prosecutor's angle is here.

This is the type of information that Frank was perfect in supplying answers for. Some things that should be public information but that which appears hidden and impenetrable. It helps to better understand why police and prosecutor use attacks on the press to control information. There can be no freedom without a free press.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Forgive me if this has already been posted (hard to catch up on all these many pages) but does anyone think a Congressional Briefing will amount to anything?

Or is it merely a public gesture? What are its implications?

Update on Congressional Briefing:

A panel of experts will address congressional members and staff on the third trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito during “Update and Briefing on the Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito Case,” a congressional briefing hosted by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA9) at the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Room SVC 202, on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 from 9:00 to 11:30 a.m.

If you're in the D.C. area, please try to attend.

* The next court date of the trial is scheduled for November 6, 2013 in Florence, Italy.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=679890635368744&id=106344459390034