Merged Continuation Part 2: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[WildCat]

Which finder of fact made that finding?

Hint: (none)

Nice moving the goalposts there RandFan, and refuting a claim I never made. The evidence shows what it shows, and it's odd that you suddenly demand that all opinions voiced in this thread must now be backed up by a finding of fact by the jury.

 

[WildCat]

Also, the video actually has many pertinent details, some of which have been brought up already in the trial, and others which surely will be.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, the prosecution will be resting Friday morning. I don't think they have much left.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.

I love the number of people that are so certain that using extreme violence on someone for doing nothing other than following you is acceptable behaviour.

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

And the police have already stated that for a self defence claim no injury needs to be sustained so the extent of his injuries is irrelevant, other then that he did in fact have them. The police have also stated that victims of assault often over emphasize how seriously they were assaulted because they go into a state of panic.

We have no real evidence TM was trying to absh
GZ's brains in,also we DO have evidence that GZ followed TM then against police advice and approached TM.

Really? What evidence do we have that GZ followed TM? The evidence is that GZ didn't know where TM had gone, how do you follow someone when you have no idea where they went?

What evidence do we have that GZ approached TM? How do you know that TM didn't approach GZ? The consensus of the witnesses appears to put the start of the conflict at or about the T and since TM wasn't at the T when GZ walked through the first time, it would seem unusual for the conflict to start there if GZ approached TM.

 

[KatieG]

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...man-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story

TM was 5'11" tall and 158 pounds. GZ is 5'9" and weighed 204. Who is way bigger?

 

[casebro]

Well Elvis, as stated in the currently closed thread, it seems obvious that the trial is politically motivated. There is NO case, but that needs to be shown in a court if law, where ALL of the evidence is presented to the public. The local guys refused to prosecute due to lack of evidence. So some politico appointed a special prosecutor to present a dog and pony show, in the hopes that the proven lack of evidence quiets the cries of racism. Hopefully the impending Not Guilty will not result in riots.

GZ will be well rewarded when he sues for malicious prosecution. He'll never need that police job he was hoping for. But I suppose the cost of trial and civil suit is cheaper than a riot. The gov may get ousted, or may gain votes. Hard to say, in any political circus. Meantime, bread and circuses for the masses.

 

[Toontown]

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.

Edited by zooterkin: 

SNIP
Edited for Rule 12, address the argument, not the arguer

Better think it over if you're in a state like Florida. Attacking and beating the snot out of people on a pre-emptive basis can be risky business these days. You never know who has a gun. I think it would only be sane to assume someone in Florida who might be neighborhood watch, might have a gun. And might have already called the cops. And the cops might arrive just in time to see you kicking the lowly offender against your exalted highness in the head. That wouldn't be good.

In such circumstances, the sane course of action might be to simply allow the ogler to admire you from afar as you go nonchalantly on your way to gramma's house. Seeing as how you're almost there anyhow, and haven't done anything wrong or even incredibly stupid yet.

Situational awareness seems to be slow to dawn on some people. Not that I believe there is any point in attempting this after a year of bickering to no avail, but for your information:

TM was over 6' tall and weighed 150-170 lb. GZ was 5' 9" and estimated at 175 lb at the time of the attack. There is also a publicly available police video of TM the day after the attack. The video clearly shows a small man with narrow shoulders, no muscle mass, and no muscle tone. His little arms look like baby arms. Not the type of physicality which would lead him to believe he could prevail against TM in physical combat. Frankly the notion that GZ initiated a fight looks plain silly when you look at GZ objectively. GZ's injuries and eyewitness testimony both affirm that GZ was obviously no good at physical combat. Did GZ not know he was a small, weak man and a lousy fighter?

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

Of course GZ's injuries were insignificant in a disabling sense, but that's only marginally relevant, if at all. There is no requirement that one must patiently await the arrival of grievous physical harm before resorting to deadly force. There is only a requirement of a reasonable expectation of imminent grievous physical harm. It would seem that the whole idea of self-defense would be to prevent grievous physical harm to oneself. Otherwise, why bother? Just let the attacker beat you senseless and hope he doesn't kill you.

 

[Cylinder]

Friday should wrap up the state's case with the actual Medical Examiner and Trayvon's family members.

I would also suspect that a Motion for Judgment of Acquittal is being drafted this weekend. Zimmerman still has the option to seek statutory immunity, though I don't see the benefit of presenting that motion until after Zimmerman presents his defense.

 

[KatieG]

Apparently O'Mara is confused about whether this is a SYG or self defense case.

George Zimmerman's Attorney Wishes Jury Was 'More Diverse'

By LAUREN EFFRON (@leffron831)

July 3, 2013

George Zimmerman's lawyer said the biggest challenge is fighting against the "social pressures" surrounding the racially charged case and wished the jury was "more diverse."

Six women -- five white and one minority of Hispanic descent -- were chosen to serve on the jury.

"My concern from day one is that this is a very simple straightforward self-defense case, yet it's been turned into what one of the people has said is the greatest civil rights trial of the century," Mark O'Mara told "Nightline" anchor Dan Abrams. "It's absurd. This is still ... just a 'stand your ground' self-defense case."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...t#.UdV7QZjD_5o

 

[KatieG]

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...man-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story

I misread your post and commented. Sorry

 

[PhantomWolf]

Martin deserved better then what he got from this crappy Prosecution.

You are blaming the prosecution for something that isn't their fault. They can only present the case they have, and when they have no evidence it becomes very apparent in the trial. This is what happens went someone is prosecuted because of political pressure rather then because there is actually any evidence of their having committed a crime.

Based on the current evidence, the fact Martin got a prosecution at all is likely more than what was deserved.

Moral of the story. If you think that someone is following you, ignore them and go home, or if that is too far away, go knock on a door nearby. Don't wait around in the rain, or head back and confront them.

 

[ABC10]

Friday should wrap up the state's case with the actual Medical Examiner and Trayvon's family members.

I would also suspect that a Motion for Judgment of Acquittal is being drafted this weekend. Zimmerman still has the option to seek statutory immunity, though I don't see the benefit of presenting that motion until after Zimmerman presents his defense.

Expect the prosecution case will be over Friday? I mean "Is That IT"? Bernie and his pals have been horrible. Where is all the blood on George's scalp flowed the wrong way? What about the phone calls and all the stuff the Trays have been spouting for over a year?

 

[ABC10]

TM was 5'11" tall and 158 pounds. GZ is 5'9" and weighed 204. Who is way bigger?

Actually, according to the jail intake sheet, George is 5'7'' Notice O'Mara and West spent a lot of time with the clothing windows near height challenged DNA expert Anthony. We will see them next to George too. Oh and we have a 7/11 video of Martin towering over the clerk who claims to be 5'10" too.
No way is the height boat going to float.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Apparently O'Mara is confused about whether this is a SYG or self defense case.

George Zimmerman's Attorney Wishes Jury Was 'More Diverse'

By LAUREN EFFRON (@leffron831)

July 3, 2013

George Zimmerman's lawyer said the biggest challenge is fighting against the "social pressures" surrounding the racially charged case and wished the jury was "more diverse."

Six women -- five white and one minority of Hispanic descent -- were chosen to serve on the jury.

"My concern from day one is that this is a very simple straightforward self-defense case, yet it's been turned into what one of the people has said is the greatest civil rights trial of the century," Mark O'Mara told "Nightline" anchor Dan Abrams. "It's absurd. This is still ... just a 'stand your ground' self-defense case."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...t#.UdV7QZjD_5o

Do you actually believe MOM is confused ?

Other than a bad turn of phrase or slip of the tongue, what conclusions are you drawing from this, or do you expect others to draw from this ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I see no one has posted about the ice cream/instagram kerfuffle:

In a nutshell, one of Don Wests daughters posted a picture on instagram with the caption "we beat stupidity celebration cones":
"West's daughter took to Instagram to post a photo of herself, another sister and dad and tagged the photo with the hashtags "#zimmerman #defense and #dadkilledit."

The state filed a motion June 27:
http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0713/states_mot_inquiry.pdf

Said motion is completely wrong, pic was posted prior to RJ testifying. That seems pretty embarrassing that they don't even know when it was actually posted. Technology is clearly beyond the prosecution team.

Don West response:
http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0713/reply_mot_inquiry.pdf

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Friday should wrap up the state's case with the actual Medical Examiner and Trayvon's family members.

I would also suspect that a Motion for Judgment of Acquittal is being drafted this weekend. Zimmerman still has the option to seek statutory immunity, though I don't see the benefit of presenting that motion until after Zimmerman presents his defense.

WFTV was still claiming there would be only one more witness .... could it be that the last witness will be the ME, and Fulton will not be called ? We'll see today....

 

[KatieG]

Actually, according to the jail intake sheet, George is 5'7'' Notice O'Mara and West spent a lot of time with the clothing windows near height challenged DNA expert Anthony. We will see them next to George too. Oh and we have a 7/11 video of Martin towering over the clerk who claims to be 5'10" too.
No way is the height boat going to float.

According to the medical examiner that performed the autopsy on TM, he was 5'11" tall. Hardly towering over someone who is 5'10".

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Moral of the story. If you think that someone is following you, ignore them and go home, or if that is too far away, go knock on a door nearby. Don't wait around in the rain, or head back and confront them.

Or better yet, call 911 using the cell phone you're holding in your hand, instead of chatting with your semi-literate girlfriend.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Talking heads wrong.

Fulton testified, brief cross by MOM.

Fulton excused because court could not open evidence locker, and apparently state needs to question Fulton about something in there.

Jahvaris Fulton next.

Evidence locker opened, Fulton back on stand. Identifies button, no cross.

Now ME is on stand.

Again, many believe this is the last witness for the state.

 

[Frank Newgent]

A summary of the inconsistencies in Zimmerman's account is here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/opinion/blow-questioning-the-struggle.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

 

[RandFan]

Nice moving the goalposts there RandFan, and refuting a claim I never made. The evidence shows what it shows, and it's odd that you suddenly demand that all opinions voiced in this thread must now be backed up by a finding of fact by the jury.

If it is just your opinion then that's fine. But you didn't state it as an opinion. You stated it as a fact. So, I will grant you that it's just your opinion of what the evidence shows and that the conclusion you drew is simply provisional based on your viewing of the evidence.