Merged Continuation Part 2: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[bookworm]

So many issues here...



And finally, Zimmerman is not on trial for being a racist. If he saw Martin, spewed a bunch of racial slurs to himself, and kept driving towards Target, nobody would care. What Zimmerman is actually on trial for is following, confronting, and shooting a guy who was just walking down the street.

Only have time to fix this one part......."and shooting a guy who was trying to bash his brains in"

 

[Frank Newgent]

Zimmie was stalking the lad, was he not? Nothing wrong with confronting somebody who is stalking you.

I'm pretty sure there is under the law, if by "confronting" you mean "beating the snot out of".

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...man-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story

 

[RandFan]

Which finder of fact made that finding?

Hint: (none)

I started jury duty today. Facts are determined by a judge or a jury (AKA finders of fact). Nothing is a fact in this case until the finders of fact declare them so. The experts can claim what are and are not facts but those, in the eyes of the law, are "opinion" unless and until the judge or jury finds them to be facts. At least that is what the judge in my case told us today.

fact finder (finder of fact) n. in a trial of a lawsuit or criminal prosecution, the jury or judge (if there is no jury) who decides if facts have been proven. Occasionally a judge may appoint a "special master" to investigate and report on the existence of certain facts. (See: finder of fact, question of fact)

 

[Dan O.]

Only have time to fix this one part......."and shooting a guy who was trying to bash his brains in"

Evidence of brains has not been submitted.

 

[Mumbles]

I love videos like that, where internet super-sleuths crack the case the professionals in Florida and the FBI couldn't.

Not dissimilar to 911 Truth videos.

Seems to me that the police noticed these inconsistencies - and that they brought them up to Zimmerman, in private. And this makes their claims that Zimmerman's story didn't conflict with the evidence very odd.

 

[Skeletor]

Not a great day for the prosecution again, Serino seemed to bolster GZ's credibility. The medical examiner appeared certain that the injuries were consistent with only one blow to GZ's head, but on cross O'Mara forced her to admit that it was definitely possible two or more blows hit. GZ's best friend (what kind of best friend writes about a shooting incident before the trial?) testified about GZ recounting his story, and how TM supposedly went for GZ's gun.

Daryl Parks on Piers Morgan



1:46

PM: Do you know if TM ever trained for MMA style martial arts himself ?
DP: I can't confirm that or deny that at this time

As one of the family attorneys, shouldn't he know if TM had this kind of fighting training ? Unless he thinks the defense can contradict him, wound't it make sense to deny TM had this type of training ?

No, what's important is goode said the person on the bottom could fight back ...

Parks seems like a good 'spin man' for a sinking ship. I wonder if he took lessons from Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf (of Iraqi Information Ministry fame)

And as many of us have noticed, and the following video demonstrates, this version does not hold up against the evidence at all:

I love videos like that, where internet super-sleuths crack the case the professionals in Florida and the FBI couldn't.

Not dissimilar to 911 Truth videos.

How do these Internet sleuths solve these mysteries? But at the beginning of the video, why are the houses in the news report and the houses in the reenactment video different colors? Could it be different types of cameras used? How can TM be passing 'between houses' if this well traveled path (this *is* a path, right?) is well over two house widths wide? The 7-11 is also 7 miles away according to the map at the beginning?

 

[This is The End]

I love videos like that, where internet super-sleuths crack the case the professionals in Florida and the FBI couldn't.

Not dissimilar to 911 Truth videos.

You do realize that they are prosecuting the case right now right?

So obviously the "professionals in Florida" seem to think they have something.

Also, the video actually has many pertinent details, some of which have been brought up already in the trial, and others which surely will be.

Would you like to actually discuss them or would you like us all to just hand-wave it all away with accusations of "internet super-sleuths who are similar to 911 Truthers"?

 

[Dcdrac]

We have no real evidence TM was trying to absh GZ's brains in,also we DO have evidence that GZ followed TM then against police advice and approached TM.

GZ had no real grounds for acting the way he did none at all, the only reasaonable wya to look at this is a an over zealous man caused a tragedy which lead to a death, that in the UK would be culpable manslaughter.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

So, according to the judge, prosecution is supposed to finish their case today. Everyone is assuming last witness is going to be Sybrina Fulton, for the emotional identification that she believes it is TM screaming.

I have a few questions for pro-prosecution/pro-TM posters in this thread...

Where is the states evidence of malice or ill will ?

Where is the states evidence of GZ chasing TM down / stalking him ?

Where is the states evidence the fight started anywhere but at the Tee ?

I know there were arguments put forth that we had not seen all the evidence, and we had not seen how the state planned on presenting it. Now that we have seen the evidence, and the presentation, as someone who followed this case, I didn't see anything new, and I didn't see anything particularly compelling or convincing in their presentation. Did I miss any new evidence ? Was there a particular bit of testimony that the state elicited that you though was compelling ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You do realize that they are prosecuting the case right now right?

Yes, but if someone thought the defense was presenting their case, you certainly couldn't blame them, based on all the pro-defense testimony.

So obviously the "professionals in Florida" seem to think they have something.

Also, the video actually has many pertinent details, some of which have been brought up already in the trial, and others which surely will be.

Please tell us which inconsistencies from the video the state brought up ? The state examined the lead investigator, who had nothing to say about the inconsistencies.

Would you like to actually discuss them or would you like us all to just hand-wave it all away with accusations of "internet super-sleuths who are similar to 911 Truthers"?

I'm happy to discuss all the ones you think the state focused on and pointed out. Which ones were those ?

 

[bynmdsue]

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...man-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story

Is that the medical examiner who only looked at pictures? The one who also walks barefoot thru bloody crime scenes and also probes wounds with tree branches? The one who does not believe blood can be swallowed? The State needs to be real careful what they hitch their wagons too.

And for the 1,000th time, Self-Defense Does Not Require Any Injury At All.

 

[bynmdsue]

We have no real evidence TM was trying to absh GZ's brains in,also we DO have evidence that GZ followed TM then against police advice and approached TM.

Really?

Really?

When is the State going to present it?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

We have no real evidence TM was trying to absh GZ's brains in,also we DO have evidence that GZ followed TM then against police advice and approached TM.

We only have evidence that GZ was on top of GZ, punching him. We have lacerations and contusions on the back of GZ head, as pointed out to by his doctor (PA)

Since GZ was under no compunction to follow the directions of this dispatcher (who admitted he doesn't give out commands due to liability anyway) I don't see how that is relevant. Also, GZ agreed ("OK") and stopped following TM.

GZ had no real grounds for acting the way he did none at all, the only reasaonable wya to look at this is a an over zealous man caused a tragedy which lead to a death, that in the UK would be culpable manslaughter.

I think there is more then one "reasonable" way to look at this.

Your argument is nothing more than a rehash of " I believe GZ should not have gotten out of his truck, therefor GZ is guilty"

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...man-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story

Since the significance of the injury is irrelevant to the self defense statute, it renders your point irrelevant.

Also, you know that "Medical examiner" didn't actually examine GZ, right ? Wouldn't you lend more credence to the actual examination done by GZ doctor ?

And the ME who testified is accused of some rather unsavory things herself, things that might make her feel like she should do Angela Corey a favor ...
http://www.news4jax.com/news/more-c...-rao/-/475880/20640256/-/rurvpcz/-/index.html

 

[TheL8Elvis]

An excellent article from globalgrind.com.

http://globalgrind.com/news/8-reaso...take-the-stand-michael-skolnik-exclusive-blog
<snip>

Not much excellent about it. They completely ignore the context of when witnesses saw TM and GZ:

During the first week of testimony numerous witnesses have been questioned about who was on top during the altercation between George and Trayvon. Almost all of the neighbors who witnessed part of this altercation have said that Trayvon was on the bottom, except for John Good, who claims that he saw Trayvon on top with "arm motions going down on the person on the bottom," who he says was George. However, the timing of John Good's testimony contradicts with the 911 call placed by Jenna Lauer, so John might not have seen the end of the fight, to which he testified. Not saying that John Good is lying, just that he might have seen a different part of the fight than what he thinks. So, could it have been George who was really on top of Trayvon?

They completely neglect the fact that many neighbors saw the fight *after* the gunshot, when GZ was on top of TM. Good saw them during the fight, when TM was on GZ.

There is no attempt in this article to be honest about what the witnesses testified to.

 

[Giz]

We have no real evidence TM was trying to absh GZ's brains in,

Uh, apart from the injuries sustained by GZ:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-lawyers-say-bloody-nose-photo-creates-doubt/

we DO have evidence that GZ followed TM

Yes

and approached TM.

No

GZ had no real grounds for acting the way he did none at all

You mean keeping an eye on a suspicious person and phoning it in to 911? Or using his firearm to defend himself?

 

[ABC10]

We have no real evidence TM was trying to absh GZ's brains in,also we DO have evidence that GZ followed TM then against police advice and approached TM.

GZ had no real grounds for acting the way he did none at all, the only reasaonable wya to look at this is a an over zealous man caused a tragedy which lead to a death, that in the UK would be culpable manslaughter.

Detective Gilbreath, the State investigator when asked if he had found any evidence to counter Zimmerman's account of the event said "NO". Today was fascinating. O'Mara and West in all their height standing towering ove the DNA analysis just like Martin towered over Zimmerman. A stroke of genius on the defense lawyer's part. Martin deserved better then what he got from this crappy Prosecution.

 

[Cylinder]

SKYP-ACOLYPSE!!!!!



Some outsiders found the Skpe account the state was using for this testimony. Hilariousness ensues.

 

[WildCat]

Beating the snot out of a stalker way bigger than you? Why not? I might have kicked him in the head, too.[/qupte]
You appear to be using the legal definition of "stalker" far different than anyone in the actual legal field.

Care to elaborate on this novel new legal excuse to assault somebody?

Oh, that's right. Medical examiner described Zimmerman's injuries as " very insignificant".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...man-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story

So? Maybe you can be the first person to explain the legal significance of that?

 

[WildCat]

Seems to me that the police noticed these inconsistencies - and that they brought them up to Zimmerman, in private. And this makes their claims that Zimmerman's story didn't conflict with the evidence very odd.

By "in private" you mean "unrecorded"? If they weren't recorded how do you know about it? If it was recorded please link to the interviews and list the inconsistencies. You might want to also forward that post on to the prosecution, they desperately need something.