Merged Continuation Part 2: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Skeletor]

To be clear, I won't discuss the trial in general, as I'm not watching it. I have been following the news, and I di watch the second day of Rachel's deposition.

Well, this could be a problem for you because the news is NOT reporting what is actually happening in the trial.

I watch what I can, and try to watch clips when I can't watch the live stream. I'd prefer to have the primary source be the trial itself.

I have to disagree on this. Actually, I think that Zimmerman's own police call demolishes his story, or at least the story he told on Hannity and in his walkthrough. There's no real need for witnesses here, his story is laughable nonsense. And I did hear West pointedly disagree with Zimmerman's story, by claiming that Zimmerman did, in fact, follow Martin.

Her testimony was completely discredited when she, on multiple occasions, lied about something. If she's lying about something important like attending TM's funeral, who's to say she's not lying about her whole testimony here.

Cursive has been on the way out for a while now - frankly, I'm 35, and I can barely read it.

Cursive writing was on the way out when I entered the third grade, but I had my mom teach it to me because I thought the writing looked nice. I'm somewhat sad that kids these days don't know how to read or write like that anymore. My nieces and nephews in the Philippines, however, CAN read and write in cursive.

As a black American, I wouldn't be "satisfied" with a not guilty verdict at this point (and I note that the defense has not been given a chance to present their side yet), but I wouldn't riot over it. And frankly, as I've probably said before here, the entire notion that this will spark "race riots", or that there were going to be "race riots" because he wasn't charged, has always been ahistorical race-baiting nonsense.

I've never understood the term 'race-baiting.' Why do riots happen, race-related or not? I hope that whatever the outcome, that people are civil to each other.

Is that what they are trying to do?

Why else bring up his MMA training, his constant vigilance in the gated community? The prosecution wants to paint GZ as this guy foaming at the mouth ready to fight and shoot "punks and ********." He's Dirty Harry with a Napoleon Complex.

Do you have a plausible scenario, based on the testimony we've heard so far, as to how Zimmerman initated a fight that began at the T - the same place he was standing when he was on the phone with the NEN?

Is there GPS data on where the phone call was taking place?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I can think of half a dozen plausible scenarios. I do not think you are trying too hard.

I'll give one example. Martin flees between the buildings to get away from the creepy guy in the car. Ducking behind the buildings and out of sight. He stays there, waiting for Zimmerman to drive on so he doesn't encounter him again. Meanwhile he's on the phone with his friend. Suddenly, there's the creepy guy coming around the building.

That's just an easy one.

Personally, I would have been on the phone with 911. But that's just me. I wonder if there's a reason he didn't want police to come? I can think of a few.

Maybe. I'm not solid on the law side of the house. Zimmerman may very well walk.

If justice is served, he will.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Is that what they are trying to do?

Since they charged him with second degree murder, yes.

And they are doing a piss-poor job of it.

 

[bynmdsue]

If they don't think they can prove their case they damn well should not bring charges.

Well, in a perfect world and all that. But political pressure and surprising new evidence from a previously unknown "witness" can cloud better judgment.

I really think they overcharged hoping he would take a plea. Which is wrong too.

 

[Noztradamus]

Her testimony was completely discredited when she, on multiple occasions, lied about something. If she's lying about something important like attending TM's funeral, who's to say she's not lying about her whole testimony here.

Important? Was she ever goiing to be a witness that Martin was buried? It was a lie for politeness sake v. "I didn't go because it sounded boring"

Why else bring up his MMA training, his constant vigilance in the gated community? The prosecution wants to paint GZ as this guy foaming at the mouth ready to fight and shoot "punks and ********." He's Dirty Harry with a Napoleon Complex.

For the same reason the defence brought up the video of Martin attacking a homeless man. Oh wait never did.

If the defence was lying about something important like that, who's to say they're not lying about George's whole defence here.

Personally, I would have been on the phone with 911. But that's just me. I wonder if there's a reason he didn't want police to come? I can think of a few.

A teenage boy calls 911 to tell them "A creepy asscracker in a car looked at me but I ran away"

 

[WildCat]

Is there GPS data on where the phone call was taking place?

He said he was at the T, and that's where the witnesses report first hearing an altercation.

The prosecution claims he went chasing after Martin, which would have put him well past the T.

It's a big problem for the prosecution that the altercation happened at the T, blows to hell the whole "he chased down Martin and attempted to detain him" scenario.

 

[Frank Newgent]

Had Trayvon Martin carried a gun they might had a shootout. Whoever survived could claim self defense under stand your ground.

Do you have a plausible scenario, based on the testimony we've heard so far, as to how Zimmerman initated a fight that began at the T - the same place he was standing when he was on the phone with the NEN?

Zimmie was stalking the lad, was he not? Nothing wrong with confronting somebody who is stalking you.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Is that what they are trying to do?

Why else bring up his MMA training, his constant vigilance in the gated community? The prosecution wants to paint GZ as this guy foaming at the mouth ready to fight and shoot "punks and ********." He's Dirty Harry with a Napoleon Complex.

<snip>

"Foaming at the mouth" isn't "cold blooded". They're generally considered pretty much opposite ends of a spectrum.

I think hot-headed is a good way to describe Zimmerman, and probably why they're looking at Murder 2, instead of Murder 1.

 

[WildCat]

It's been a long time since this has been shown here, thought I'd post it again so everyone can see how Zimmerman's version meshes with the witness testimony so far. This is the demonstration video made the day after the shooting, before Zimmerman had a lawyer:

 

[AlBell]

Do you have a plausible scenario, based on the testimony we've heard so far, as to how Zimmerman initated a fight that began at the T - the same place he was standing when he was on the phone with the NEN?

No, but I can envision TM intercepting GZ returning to his truck at the T and GZ retreating.

IFF found not guilty (or judge dismisses for lack of evidence) will GZ have a winnable wrongful arrest lawsuit?

 

[Mumbles]

Yes, she testified that Trayvon called Zimmerman a creepy- --- white cracker and a n-word! How is that not putting it in evidence? TM used racial slurs against Zimmerman...weren't people attributing the racial slurs to Zimmerman to justify TM's punching him in the face? Looks like those suppositions were quite wrong. It's in evidence that TM should be called a racist and HE RACIALLY PROFILED GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.

So many issues here...

First, saying that "the N word" is racist, when used by black teens to refer to a white guy in this year or last year is ridiculous. I could quote rappers like J-Live or KRS-One noting that there were white kids calling themselves that word, decades ago. And does anyone remember the user handle Zimmerman used on his old Myspace account? Young people use it the same way older people use "guy" in informal settings.

And sorry, but calling someone who is creeping along behind you a "creepy ass cracker" is...meh. Okay, Martin saw Zimmerman following him around, called him a cracker, and ran away. So what? Never mind that "cracker" is laughable as far as slurs go (and embraced by some white southerners), and that Zimmerman was completely unharmed, and apparently couldn't even hear it.

Third, "Racial profiling" refers specifically to law enforcement subjecting a person to increased scrutiny, due to skin color. It does *not* refer to someone noticing another person's skin color. It really doesn't even refer to a person deciding to run away from another person due entirely to their skin color - never mind that Martin apparently did not do this. It could apply to Zimmerman, since he was profiling Martin as the Neighborhood Watch Captain. It definitely comes into play when he decided to follow Martin in his car, and then chase him on foot when he apparently ran off road.

And finally, Zimmerman is not on trial for being a racist. If he saw Martin, spewed a bunch of racial slurs to himself, and kept driving towards Target, nobody would care. What Zimmerman is actually on trial for is following, confronting, and shooting a guy who was just walking down the street.

 

[Mumbles]

It's been a long time since this has been shown here, thought I'd post it again so everyone can see how Zimmerman's version meshes with the witness testimony so far. This is the demonstration video made the day after the shooting, before Zimmerman had a lawyer:

And as many of us have noticed, and the following video demonstrates, this version does not hold up against the evidence at all:

 

[ABC10]

Not plausible to me. He would have gone home to "get away from the creepy guy in the car", it's where he was headed anyway. It's not like Zimmerman was between him and his house. Indeed, Martin doesn't go home. He stops for some reason, or he went home and then went back to the T. Didn't one witness from that end report a "shadow" going left to right (toward the T)?

According to Rachael, Trayvon said "creepy asscracker". Trayvon's assault of Zimmerman never made sense until she relayed that remark and now I think Martin hit Zimmerman in a gay bashing.

 

[RandFan]

Well, in a perfect world and all that. But political pressure and surprising new evidence from a previously unknown "witness" can cloud better judgment.

I really think they overcharged hoping he would take a plea. Which is wrong too.

I think you are correct. I agree.

 

[WildCat]

Zimmie was stalking the lad, was he not? Nothing wrong with confronting somebody who is stalking you.

I'm pretty sure there is under the law, if by "confronting" you mean "beating the snot out of".

 

[WildCat]

Wouldn't it be great if people could be punished for their reckless actions that resulted in death of innocent people? Martin had broken no laws. Martin wasn't committing a crime. Martin is dead because of the reckless actions of someone who never had any formal training in law enforcement. Folks like that ought not be playing law and order. That's how innocent people die.

From the other thread.

From evidence known to date: Martin did commit a crime - assaulting a person who looked at him with suspicion. You don't get to do that.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Daryl Parks on Piers Morgan



1:46

PM: Do you know if TM ever trained for MMA style martial arts himself ?
DP: I can't confirm that or deny that at this time

As one of the family attorneys, shouldn't he know if TM had this kind of fighting training ? Unless he thinks the defense can contradict him, wound't it make sense to deny TM had this type of training ?

No, what's important is goode said the person on the bottom could fight back ...

 

[WildCat]

And as many of us have noticed, and the following video demonstrates, this version does not hold up against the evidence at all:

I love videos like that, where internet super-sleuths crack the case the professionals in Florida and the FBI couldn't.

Not dissimilar to 911 Truth videos.

 

[RandFan]

From the other thread.

From evidence known to date: Martin did commit a crime - assaulting a person who looked at him with suspicion. You don't get to do that.

Which finder of fact made that finding?

Hint: (none)

 

[KatieG]

An excellent article from globalgrind.com.

http://globalgrind.com/news/8-reaso...take-the-stand-michael-skolnik-exclusive-blog

from the Hannity interview:

HANNITY: Why do you think that he was running then?

ZIMMERMAN: Maybe I said running, but he was more —

HANNITY: You said he’s running.

ZIMMERMAN: Yes. He was like skipping, going away quickly. But he wasn’t running out of fear.

HANNITY: You could tell the difference?

ZIMMERMAN: He wasn’t running.

HANNITY: So he wasn’t actually running?

ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.

HANNITY: OK. Because that’s what you said to the dispatcher, that you thought he was running.